Will ask him when he reappears on the forum no I'm actually not sure whether it was televised by sky or just terrestrial tv It would be actually fantastic and a invaluable contribution if someone was able to make a comp of li tissiers overall technique (short passing in particular because he apparently excelled at this-for a player who was essentially a deep lying striker)
It would have been on Sky if it was shown live in 93/94. I have a feeling it was (actually if you see highlights and Martin Tyler is commentating that'd probably confirm it).
Ronaldo at Barca before his knees went. Pace, power, skill, finishing with either foot I am of the opinion he is the best striker of all time, look at his goal record pre ac Milan, after multiple knee surgeries etc
@PDG1978 ON THIS DAY: In 1995, Marco van Basten retired aged 31 having not played for two years due to injury.🏆🏆🏆 Serie A🏆🏆🏆 Eredivisie🏆🏆🏆 Ballon d'Or🏆🏆🏆 KNVB Cup🏆🏆 European Cup🏆🏆 Intercontinental Cup🏆🏆 Supercoppa🏆 Supercup🏆 Cup Winners' Cup🏆 Euros😳 pic.twitter.com/yGOO1N2pRA— Squawka (@Squawka) August 17, 2019 Nice story in this series of tweets "The special thing was that he had not played for more than two years, but that the hope of a return was apparently so alive among many fans that she was still moved by the final decision. The club management had known it for months, but granted the protagonist an honorable goodbye. Years later (in 1997) Van Basten returned to San Siro again at the farewell match of Franco Baresi. He made a solo dribble past four opponents and everyone's mouths fell open. Fantastic moment .... The class was transmitted in the headlines: --- Why the hell wasn't he just standing there in Milan's (ugly) shirt? Because he wouldn't play at all. I think it was a spontaneous action by Galliani to give Van Basten him his audience again. Therefore also memorable, because it was spontaneous. --- Is there video of that dribble? Sure, that match was on Eurosport and I was responsible for the broadcast, but the original images are at Canale 5. I'll have a look at You Tube." Similar dribble in the same (exhibition) match, leading to an actual scoring chance, can be seen here from 2:30 onward (he eventually messes it up with his injured & locked left ankle): https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=151&v=ms4DUJ3MOew
Milan 87-97 All-Stars could be the best '10 year' all-time selection possible (for clubs at least)!? I mean if picked in a 'all in prime' kind of way, not as they were that day of course. I did look at 20 minutes or so of Milan vs Inter from 88/89 on Youtube btw (the 0-1 loss) and he wasn't getting a lot of the ball but some of his touches and link up plays when he did were great (I'm not sure how it went for the rest of the game, or what grade he received from newspapers).
You can go with Milan till 07 when Sheva left Some world class players in constant rotation for 20 years Sadly now, they are poor
Barcelona 2005-2015 also too Ronaldinho, deco, puyol, etoo, Henry, Messi, xavi, iniesta,busquets, suarez, neymar,henrik laarson,ibrahimovic,dani alves,david villa,pique etc I mean C'mon This team all on the their prime day would be unbeatable A new talent roost so great that many 'legends' mentioned would proudly warm the bench
While prime Ronaldinho-Henry-Messi is possibly the best any club can bring in a 10-year period, I think the Barcelona of 05-15 doesn't have the best spread of talent. They are completely stacked up front and in midfield, but has less than stellar choices at the back. The Milan team of 87-97 perhaps have a better spread. Having said that, I'd still fancy the Barcelona side.
David villa the greatest CF in spains history would be a 4th choice striker over this 10 year period (Behind suarez, etoo and ibrahimovic) No team can boast this kind of talent. I disagree(mildly) on your assessment of puyol/pique They are less stellar as Milans 87-97 defensive options But they are definitely not less than stellar World class in their pomp and arguably the best defenders in the world (at their best) Puyol was Dbs calcios highest rated outfield player in la liga 2004/05 PIque in 08/09 was arguably just as good As imperious as Baresi (and even Maldini) were they were also prone to error on 'off days' If Romario(prime) by himself could destroy Baresi(once)in the European cup Imagine a trio of Messi, TH14 and Ronaldinho!!! Xavi and iniesta would control/dominate the centre Personally i don't see van Basten even getting a chance at Barcelonas defence here. His supply would be completely strangled
Romario didn't do that "by himself". He had help from Van Breukelen, Popescu, Heintze, Vanenburg, Kieft. All of those were players with a proven international record. Kieft was the striker providing the assists (2nd link). Milan still won that match 1-2 (goal Rijkaard, left footed assist MvB), and dutch teams in general have a fine record against italian teams, club and country. Italian teams suit us better than for example Portuguese teams or Teutonic terminator teams. ... something that he was used to and could cope well. In many matches he didn't have 4 chances in a match and with his range of qualities he could still have an influence. He was used to stalemates with a scarcity of chances for him or his team. Of course it is purely hypothetical and there are numerous difficulties (which rules etc.) making a real comparison impossible but Milan 1987-1997 does have every flavor in house, including a metronome like Albertini or a predatory striker like Papin. Milan has not only an advantage at the back and can match them in midfield, they have also every flavor available to them. Hazard-like dribblers as Savicevic, tireless Kante destroyers as Desailly, predatory strikers as Papin, metronomes as Albertini. Comparisons are hard to make, because having the best player in Europe/world in their position doesn't lead to the same degree of dominance in every era...
Yeah, a lot of talent is wasted in the Barcelona side, as you said Villa, Suarez, Eto, and Ibra wouldn't make the starting XI. Someone like Deco wouldn't make it either as you don't want to break up the Xavinesta duet. When I said the Barcelona's defense is less than stellar, obviously I didn't mean they're not world-class. The bar has simply been raised in these kind of hypotheticals. Players like Maldini, Baresi, and MvB are GOAT candidates in their respective roles. That's the bar. Or someone like Ronaldinho and Henry, while not at that level, were at one point the best player in the world. Pique, Puyol, and Alba? were world-class of course, but they weren't as good at their jobs at the others were at theirs, imo. For me, the most intriguing battle is without a doubt the midfield. Busquets-Iniesta-Xavi dominated every single battle they went into, so it is very difficult to imagine what kind of midfield can go toe-to-toe with those three. I'm trying to imagine what the Milan midfield would look like. In my head, Desailly goes into defense, as that's where I think his peak was, and he'd be an excellent partner for Baresi. So what I have in mind is Rijkaard, Vieira, and either a holder like Albertini or another runner like Davids. Could the Barcelona's midfield handle the athleticism of a Rijkaard, Vieira, and Davids midfield, for example, especially if Gullit is there to aid them as well? These were all physical beasts, but also highly technical players. I'd like to think that Barcelona, especially with wide options like Alves, Alba, Ronaldinho, and Messi could pass around anybody. Like, how do you even get close to those guys? It's a fun mental exercise for sure.
Vieira was a failure at Milan You would be looking at a side like this ......sheva....van Basten .............gullit ...Rijkaard .....pirlo ...............desailly Maldini..baresi...costacourta...tassotti .............rossi Then U have savicevic, Boban, weah, albertini, kaka, Zlatan, gattusso, Thiago Silva, Cafu, Rui Costa, crespo etc etc
You know what I meant and are nitpicking for no reason I meant the goal/magic he produced vs Milan was largely independent of team edge Even if psv could win the eredivisie comfortably without him Could win the European cup the season before he came Etc I was referring to that one(singular) instance where Romario had one of his days in the European cup So imagine prime Messi, dinho and Henry on their best ever day I very much doubt any defence that ever existed could contain all 3 and not concede at least a single goal This is (arguably) an upgrade on MSN the highest scoring trio in history Of course this is all hypothetical and the good thing is there is no right or wrong answer
Read the rules dude, we were talking about if they were all in their prime. Why do you think we were talking about the Ronaldinho-Henry-Messi trio if Henry never reached his peak at Barcelona? Also, the likes of Pirlo, Sheva and Cafu were not in the Milan club between 87-97.
Of course they all make (in varying quantity and quality) mistakes, see the shocking one-vs-one defending of Nesta here at 1:38:40 (!!). It also matters in what type of set-up you play. The Mourinho set-up, playing near your penalty area and midfield protection, is easier than a Klopp, Guardiola or (in Baresi's time) Koeman at Barcelona set-up. Baresi in particular was prone to errors, in the last 5 years of his career, there are many of them, but telling for his status is that he had this farewell article in a north european newspaper of record: Super defender Franco Baresi says goodbye; Soft voice, brutal tackles His stature is small, but his authority is great. His voice is soft, but his tackles are loud. The small big man Franco Baresi beats the heart of a Milanista, a true-to-life representative of AC Milan. Anyone who has served his club for twenty years and in 716 matches will be honored as a prince and will be given a place in the Milanese hall of fame, alongside Gianni Rivera, Cesare Maldini, Gunnar Nordahl and Marco van Basten. Baresi remains loyal to his club. He joins the club's presidency alongside President Silvio Berlusconi, Deputy Chairman Galliani, manager Braida and vice-presidents Paolo Berlusconi and Nardi. Baresi will be given a position as vice-chairman and will be responsible for the youth department. He is not a star that illuminates others. But trainers could rely on him. Like Arrigo Sacchi, who came to Milan in 1986, brought his ideas about football and Baresi was designated as the key figure. Baresi emerged under Sacchi as a modern libero, not far behind his defense, but even in front. He became the driving force of the offensive defenders Tassotti, Costacurta and Maldini. Thanks to Baresi, Rijkaard, Ancelotti, Donadoni, Gullit and Van Basten were able to develop their attacking talents. In the attacking football, the super defender Baresi ruled, who could perfectly kick a ball both left and right. When he raised his hand, the defense put the attack of the opposition offside. And then it was offside too! Many referees and linesmen were influenced by Baresi's coercive gestures. If the arbitration did not obey, Baresi was fast enough to prevent the danger. In an emergency, the little man grabbed the brutal tackle. Then the Italian left his victim groaning and bombarded the arbitration with a barrage of accusations. Milan won with Baresi six times the championship of Italy, Milan won the European Cup three times - in 1994 he missed the win against Barcelona due to a suspension. He played 81 times in the Italian team. Baresi experienced his low point as an international at the 1994 World Cup. Less than three weeks after an emergency operation on his knee, he played in the final against Brazil. In the penalty shootout, Baresi missed first. He left the arena of Pasadena in tears and all the Italians wept with him. In addition to major triumphs, his football career also suffered serious defeats. As a seventeen-year-old, he had barely penetrated the Milan main force, or the club was returned to the Serie B after a bribery scandal in 1979. After returning to the Serie A, the club relegated again. Only after the arrival of media magnate Berlusconi did Milan regain a place where it belonged. Baresi was a man of few words, but his name was sufficient for Berlusconi to use him as a fellow party member for political purposes. Franco Baresi grew up as the son of a poor farmer in Travagliato, near Brescia. He liked to play football with his brothers Angelo and Giuseppe. At the age of thirteen, Franco was struck by a long-term virus infection. Doctors feared leukemia. The boy recovered slowly, although his physical growth lagged behind that of his peers. Together with Giuseppe he was allowed to do a trial training of Internazionale a year later. Baresi was rejected. He had not the technical talent and was too small. The two years older Giuseppe was allowed to stay and would develop into a valued player of Inter. Franco was not a boy who let himself be disturbed by setbacks. He joined AC Milan a year later and grew into a fierce and quick defender. He again had a setback. First his mother died and soon after his father. But the orphans of Baresi found support together and became immovable football players. Franco Baresi has no chats, he does his job and demands the same from his fellow player. He admired other football players, such as Ruud Krol and Franz Beckenbauer (hence Baresi's nickname Franz) and especially Marco van Basten ("the best I played a soccer match with"). In 1989 Van Basten was chosen as the best football player in Europe, Baresi was second. The fate of Franco Baresi, always in the shadow. Tonight he will be in the spotlight, surrounded by the players he has served and the players who were able to play so well thanks to him. Maybe he is crying again and crying all of Milan with him. https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/1997/10/2...-baresi-neemt-afscheid-zachte-7373436-a991922 ------------------ Maybe that Pique is comparatively underappreciated. Pique his international status until the age of 27 was probably greater (or just as great) as Baresi's was until that age. Puyol his status received a bump after the 2002 World Cup, when he was 24.
I think it could be my words were unclear (if I was the first one to mention the concept of best 10 year team as such). I had been thinking more along the lines you were, but I don't think I said specifically peak at that club in the timeframe concerned (even though I meant it). Anyway, that was the basis for my idea Milan might have the best (off the top of my head), but I guess other people doing exercises and including players based on Arsenal form (you and poet both support Arsenal btw!) is no problem anyway, as I hadn't meant to be setting any rules with my comment. The way poet did it is a good mindset for another Sheep Draft if lanman arranges it at any point in the future again anyway (thinking of players fitting the criteria, without seeming obvious)!
IIRC a mixture of that 1987-1997 batch and 2003-2007 was on display here, in another rare farewell match and rare Baresi appearance (Rijkaard was oddly playing for Barcelona..): Anyway, I think it's fair to say Milan didn't have a peak Messi (in his Barcelona shirt at the least..) but one could say they have more balance perhaps and more flavors avalaible (with some specialists but also multi-functional and technical/effective players). But of course athleticism is here important and that's difficult to put into a thought experiment etc. Interesting however that neither of them had a very legendary goalkeeper (not even sure whether Rossi or Galli had the same international resonance of a Peruzzi, Tacconi or Victor Valdes, Bravo, MATS), something they share with a few other legendary club teams of the past, including Ajax, Grobbelaar at Liverpool and to some degree even Real Madrid. edit: since Ronaldo Luis played briefly for AC Milan too (2006-2008), we might select him at his prime as well... He was also my at best #1 or at worst #2 for the question on the first page ('best striker at their prime').
They weren't all used but found the line-ups and yes a mix between both batches were used. Partita di addio al calcio giocato di Demetrio Albertini MILAN Vecchie Glorie vs BARCELONA Veteranos 3-2 Reti: 6' Albertini, 11' Van Basten, 32' aut. Nadal, 40' Ezquerro, 74' rig. Eto'o MILAN Vecchie Glorie: Primo tempo: S. Rossi (25' Ielpo), Tassotti, F. Galli, F. Baresi II (25' Nava), P. Maldini, Eranio (25' Weah), Desailly (25' Donadoni), Albertini (32' Carbone), Evani (25' Massaro), Van Basten (14' Gullit, 37' Boban), Papin (25' Simone) - All.: Capello Secondo tempo: Dida (23' Kalac), Simic, Nesta (23' Serginho), Costacurta, Kaladze, Vogel (23' Gattuso), Pirlo (23' Seedorf), Ambrosini, Rui Costa (23' Kakà), Shevchenko (23' Amoroso), Gilardino (23' Inzaghi I) - All.: Ancelotti BARCELONA Veteranos: Primo tempo: Zubizzarreta, Goikoetxea, Nadal, Alexanco (20' Oleguer), Sergi, Laudrup, Eusebio (31' Iniesta), Rijkaard (25' Van Bommel), Amor, Stoichkov (29' Ezquerro), Julio Salinas (29' Maxi Lopez) - All.: Cruijff Secondo tempo: Jorquera (23' Viktor Valdes), Oleguer, Marquez (34' Albertini), Puyol, Silvinho, Van Bommel (31' Edmilson), Van Bronkhost, Iniesta (23' Deco), Giuly (23' Larsson), Ezquerro (23' Eto'o), Maxi Lopez (23' Ronaldinho) - All.: Rijkaard Arbitro: Paparesta Giocati due tempi di 40 minuti ciascuno ---- Of course this was purely an exhibition or 'summer evening' match (nice free kick by Albertini himself I see, and later that diving header yes). In contrast to something like the Catalonia vs Argentina match of 2009 I think which is played in a more competing spirit (Catalonia regularly lost those games before JC14s spell anyway, and I think his ego was big enough that he wanted to do fine vs Maradona as NT manager). Albertini was a player/person he liked I think, in contrast to Maldini who he (in)famously didn't rate that high.
Yeah of course he had still his added value of course (same or more applies to Ronaldo Luis at his pomp) but say those two 1989 supercup matches against Barcelona where he sees more of the ball shows him better. The creators have past month uploaded this series I see, with commentary by Lineker, Matthaus, Zola (the footage and stats seems to have been edited out though): (part 2 here) Interesting to see for sure! Here he is playing futsal against AC Milan, and here some other futsal match against Italians for Ajax (between 5:30 and 6:00). Above journalist/correspondent (who is also great for the shadier things of sport, he has written a book on it) thinks he was at his best for Milan between september 1988 and february 1990, then also two stellar years in the two years his career until halfway 1992-93. Though he also knows he had some great matches in his 'down phase' like that Intercontinental Cup match and the European Cup. As for where he stands he said: "Comparing is always difficult, but Cruijff is of course the best. Next come Wilkes, Van Hanegem and Van Basten, and Robben can join as well I suppose. Perhaps without injuries there would have been more." ------ Who do you think is the bigger personality in Italy ... Gullit or van Basten? Perhaps impossible question, but I still try! "Gullit is unforgettable and incomparable in terms of appearance, Van Basten in terms of class. A combination of the two would be the ideal football player. As an answer to your question: I think Gullit."
+ Bergkamp added, for completeness. He wrote in a piece, and 100% agree: "The sentiment by a few of my colleagues he couldn't cut it in Italy and was the highlight reel man in a pub, fish and chips league is too simple. He won the UEFA Cup as topscorer in a field possibly just as strong as the Champions League that year. Milan won this time the cup against a Bremen and Monaco stuck in midfield at their own league, and then an exhausted Barcelona with limited rest and king Johan bouncing between brilliance and insanity. This is the same defensively brilliant Milan where the Iceman did numerous times the most brilliant things against. Later on continued at Arsenal against Italian opposition, the Lazio fans still remember it [*and Juventus*]. His misfortune is he came directly after a golden generation winning the euros and multiple Champions Leagues with different clubs. Internazionale having five different managers within two years is not his mistake." (just to put this straight and correct) On subject: