Best South American players - Pre war era

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by msioux75, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    These lists will be the hardest, since no contemporary rankings are available. So, the 1st version will be mostly my personal taste (also some research, readings, etc.).

    The system used will be 2-3-5 or Pyramid System (most common in SA until early 50s)

    Best SA players - 50s & 60s
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/best-south-american-players-50s-60s.1383569/

    Best SA players in the 70s
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1293508

    Best SA players in the 80s
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1310851

    Best SA players - 90s & 2000s
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1326660

    I'll hope all could enjoy and get some insight to improve the lists
     
    La-Máquina, Gregoriak and Lucas... repped this.
  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Best South American players - Late 40s
    This is my first list for the 1947-49 era:

    Keepers
    Roque MASPOLI (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    BARBOSA (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Sinforiano GARCÍA (Paraguay) - Cerro Porteño / Flamengo
    Julio COZZI (Argentina) - Platense
    Luis SUAREZ (Peru) - Municipal
    Sergio LIVINGSTONE (Chile) - U.Catolica
    Vicente ARRAYA (Bolivia) - Ferroviario
    Walter ORMEÑO (Peru) - Universitario
    Anibal PAZ (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Obdulio DIANO (Argentina) - Boca Jrs

    Right Full-back
    Raúl PINI (Uruguay) - Nacional / Millonarios
    Juan Carlos COLMAN (Argentina) - Newell's
    Alberto GONZALEZ (Paraguay) - Olimpia
    Oscar BASSO (Argentina) - San Lorenzo / Inter Milan
    Andres DA SILVA (Peru) - Universitario
    AUGUSTO da Costa (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Eliseo MORALES (Peru) - Atletico Chalaco / D.Cali
    Jorge "Chompi" HENRIQUES (Ecuador) - Audax / Independiente S.Fe
    Higinio GARCIA (Argentina) - Racing


    Left Full-back
    Eusebio TEJERA (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Jose MARANTE (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Gerardo ARCE (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    JUVENAL Amarijo (Brazil) - Cruzeiro / Flamengo
    Manuel MACHUCA (Chile) - Colo Colo
    Juan Carlos SOBRERO (Argentina) - Newell's
    Agapito PERALES (Peru) - ORO Mexico / Medellin FBC
    Jose GARCIA PEREZ (Argentina) - Tigre / Racing
    Eduardo "Zurdo" RODRIGUEZ (Argentina) - River

    Right Half-Backs
    Schubert GAMBETTA (Uruguay) - Nacional / Cucuta
    Lorenzo PACHECO (Peru) - Sport Boys
    Norberto YACONO (Argentina) - River Plate
    Manuel GAVILAN (Paraguay) - Libertad
    Manuel ALVAREZ (Chile) - U.Catolica
    Carlos SOSA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    ELI do Amparo (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    RUI Campos (Brazil) - Sao Paulo
    Juan CASTILLO (Peru) - Atletico Chalaco / Medellin FBC
    Julio Cesar RAMIREZ (Paraguay) - Huracan

    Center Halfback
    DANILO Alvim (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Obdulio VARELA (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Carlos BAUER (Brazil) - Sao Paulo
    Nestor ROSSI (Argentina) - River Plate
    Angel PERUCCA (Argentina) - Newell's / San Lorenzo
    Jose OCAMPOS (Paraguay) - Racing / Boca Jrs de Cali
    Alejandro GONZALES (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    Modesto BRIA (Paraguay) - Flamengo
    Carlos TORRES (Peru) - Atletico Chalaco / Universitario
    Rufino LECCA (Peru) - Veracruz
    Carlos ARCE (Paraguay) - Sportivo Luqueño

    Left Half-Backs
    Miguel BUSQUETS (Chile) - U de Chile
    Natalio PESCIA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Cornelio HEREDIA (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    Ernesto GUTIERREZ (Argentina) - Racing
    Victor RODRIGUEZ ANDRADE (Uruguay) - Central Español
    Joe CALDERON (Peru) - Sport Boys
    BIGODE (Brazil) - Fluminense
    NORONHA (Brazil) - Sao Paulo

    Right Winger
    Mario BOYÉ (Argentina) - Boca Jrs / Genoa
    TESOURINHA (Brazil) - Internacional
    Gilberto TORRES (Peru) - Universitario
    Alcides GHIGGIA (Uruguay) - Sudamerica / Peñarol
    Luis Ernesto CASTRO (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Santiago VERNAZZA (Argentina) - Platense
    Camilo CERVINO (Argentina) - Independiente
    Juan Carlos SALVINI (Argentina) - Huracan / Racing
    MANECA (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Andres PRIETO (Chile) - U.Catolica

    Inside Right
    ZIZINHO (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Jose Manuel MORENO (Argentina) - River / U.Catolica
    Norberto MENDEZ (Argentina) - Huracan / Racing
    Adolfo PEDERNERA (Argentina) - Atlanta / Huracan
    Guillermo BARBADILLO (Peru) - Sport Boys
    Atilio CREMASCHI (Chile) - Union Española
    Jose "Loncha" GARCIA (Uruguay) - Defensor
    Cesar LOPEZ FRETES (Paraguay) - Olimpia
    Julio PEREZ (Uruguay) - Racing Mont. / River Uruguayo
    Juan LECCA (Peru) - Atletico Chalaco / Medellin FBC
    Vides MOSQUERA (Peru) - Municipal
    Grimaldo GONZALES (Peru) - Tampico / Veracruz

    Centreforward
    Alfredo DI STEFANO (Argentina) - River Plate / Millonarios
    Valeriano LOPEZ (Peru) - Sport Boys / D.Cali
    HELENO de Freitas (Brazil) - Botafogo / Boca Jrs / Vasco da Gama
    Jorge ROBLEDO (Chile) - Barnsley / Newcastle
    Rubén BRAVO (Argentina) - Racing Club
    Oscar MIGUEZ (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Francisco SOLANO Patiño (Paraguay) - Sol de America / Guarani
    FRIAÇA (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Dionisio ARCE (Paraguay) - Sportivo Luqueño
    Julio APARICIO (Peru) - Tampico / Moctezuma
    Roberto "Tito" DRAGO (Peru) - D.Municipal

    Inside Left
    Walter GOMEZ (Uruguay) - Nacional
    ADEMIR Marques (Brazil) - Fluminense / Vasco da Gama
    Rinaldo MARTINO (Argentina) - San Lorenzo / Juventus
    JAIR da Rosa Pinto (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Angel LABRUNA (Argentina) - River Plate
    Carlos GOMEZ SANCHEZ (Peru) - Alianza Lima / Boca Jrs
    Juan SCHIAFFINO (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Felix CASTILLO (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    Alejandrino GENES (Paraguay) - Nacional Parag. / Boca de Cali
    Llamil SIMES (Argentina) - Huracan / Racing Club
    Mario FERNANDEZ (Argentina) - Independiente

    Left Winger
    Felix LOUSTAU (Argentina) - River Plate
    Manuel PELEGRINA (Argentina) - Estudiantes LP
    Ezra SUED (Argentina) - Racing Club
    Bibiano ZAPIRAÍN (Uruguay) - Inter Milan / Nacional
    Juan Bautista VILLALBA (Paraguay) - Huracan / Boca de Cali
    CHICO Aramburu (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Leongino UNZAIN (Paraguay) - Nacional / Olimpia
    Ernesto VIDAL (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Fernando RIERA (Chile) - U.Catolica
     
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  3. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Best South American players - Mid 40s
    This is my first list for the 1943-46 era:

    Goalkeepers
    Sergio LIVINGSTONE (Chile) - Racing / U.Catolica
    Jose SORIANO (Peru) - Banfield / River Plate

    Roque MASPOLI (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Claudio VACCA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Anibal PAZ (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Teodulo LEGARIO (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    Vicente ARRAYA (Bolivia) - Ferroviario / Atlanta
    Hector RICARDO (Argentina) - Rosario Central
    Gabriel OGANDO (Argentina) - Estudiantes
    JURANDIR (Brazil) - Flamengo

    Right Full-back
    Jose SALOMON (Argentina) - Racing
    Domingos DA GUIA (Brazil) - Corinthians
    Jose MARANTE (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Oscar BASSO (Argentina) - San Lorenzo
    Raul PINI (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Jose "Gallareta" LUNA (Peru) - Sucre FC
    Armando RENGANESCHI (Argentina) - Sao Paulo
    Florencio BARRERA (Chile) - Magallanes
    Ricardo VAGHI (Argentina) - River Plate
    AUGUSTO da Costa (Brazil) - Vasco
    Nicolas PALMA (Argentina) - Estudiantes

    Left Full-back
    Eusebio TEJERA (Uruguay) - River Uruguayo / Nacional
    Gerardo ARCE (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    Rodolfo DE ZORZI (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Maximo GOMEZ (Peru) - Sucre FC
    Eduardo RODRIGUEZ (Argentina) - Estudiantes / River
    Enrique PERALES (Peru) - Municipal
    Agapito PERALES (Peru) - Municipal / A.D.O.
    Juan Carlos SOBRERO (Argentina) - Newell's
    Andres DA SILVA (Peru) - Sport Boys / Universitario
    Luis FERREIRA (Argentina) - River Plate

    Right Half-Backs
    Carlos SOSA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Schubert GAMBETTA (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Norberto YACONO (Argentina) - River Plate
    Francisco LAS HERAS (Chile) - U de Chile / Magallanes
    Lorenzo PACHECO (Peru) - Universitario / Sport Boys
    BIGUA (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Julio Cesar RAMIREZ (Paraguay) - Cerro Porteño
    ZEZE Procopio (Brazil) - Palmeiras / Sao Paulo
    Manuel ARAGUEZ (Argentina) - Chacarita

    Center Halfback
    Angel PERUCCA (Argentina) - Newell's
    Obdulio VARELA (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Ernesto LAZZATI (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    DANILO Alvim (Brazil) - America / Vasco
    Modesto BRIA (Paraguay) - Flamengo
    Rufino LECCA (Peru) - Sport Boys / Veracruz
    Miguel ORTEGA (Paraguay) - Ypiranga / Dos Caminos
    Leon STREMBEL (Argentina) - Lanus / Racing
    RUI Campos (Brazil) - Fluminense / Sao Paulo
    Guillermo ANDRADE (Peru) - Municipal / A.D.O.
    Alejandro GONZALES (Peru) - Diablos Rojos / Alianza Lima

    Left Half-Backs
    Natalio PESCIA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Bartolome COLOMBO (Argentina) - San Lorenzo
    Miguel BUSQUETS (Chile) - U de Chile
    NORONHA (Brazil) - Sao Paulo
    Jose RAMOS (Argentina) - River Plate
    Jose BATTAGLIERO (Argentina) - Independiente

    Right Winger
    Juan Carlos MUÑOZ (Argentina) - River Plate
    Mario BOYÉ (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    TESOURINHA (Brazil) - Internacional
    CLAUDIO Pinho (Brazil) - Santos / Corinthians
    Luis Ernesto CASTRO (Uruguay) - Nacional
    LUISINHO Oliveira (Brazil) - Sao Paulo
    Leopoldo QUIÑONES (Peru) - Municipal

    Inside Right
    Jose Manuel MORENO (Argentina) - River Plate
    Antonio SASTRE (Argentina) - Sao Paulo
    ZIZINHO (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Norberto MENDEZ (Argentina) - Huracan
    Armando FARRO (Argentina) - Banfield / San Lorenzo
    Vicente DE LA MATA (Argentina) - Independiente
    Atilio CREMASCHI (Chile) - Union Española
    Vides MOSQUERA (Peru) - Municipal
    Marcial BARRIOS (Paraguay) - Boca Jrs / Sao Paulo
    Sylvio PIRILO (Brazil) - Flamengo

    Centreforward
    Rene PONTONI (Argentina) - Newell's / San Lorenzo
    Adolfo PEDERNERA (Argentina) - River Plate
    Lolo FERNANDEZ (Peru) - Universitario
    HELENO de Freitas (Brazil) - Botafogo
    Jaime SARLANGA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    LEONIDAS (Brazil) - Sao Paulo
    Atilio GARCIA (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Arsenio ERICO (Paraguay) - Independiente
    Roberto "Tito" DRAGO (Peru) - D.Municipal
    Leocadio MARIN (Paraguay) - Olimpia
    Julio APARICIO (Peru) - Sucre FC

    Inside Left
    Rinaldo MARTINO (Argentina) - San Lorenzo
    Roberto PORTA (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Severino VARELA (Uruguay) - Boca Jrs / Peñarol
    Angel LABRUNA (Argentina) - River Plate
    JAIR da Rosa Pinto (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Jose "Loncha" GARCIA (Uruguay) - Defensor
    Caricho GUZMAN (Peru) - Deportivo Municipal
    TIM (Brazil) - Nacional SP / Sao Paulo
    Carlos GOMEZ SANCHEZ (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    Jose PERACIO (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Alejandrino GENES (Paraguay) - Nacional

    Left Winger
    Felix LOUSTAU (Argentina) - River Plate
    ADEMIR Marques (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Manuel PELEGRINA (Argentina) - Estudiantes LP
    Enrique GARCIA (Argentina) - Racing
    Bibiano ZAPIRAÍN (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Juan Bautista VILLALBA (Paraguay) - Sportivo Luqueño
    Eduardo FERNANDEZ (Peru) - Universitario
    Jose BALBUENA (Chile) - U de Chile
    CHICO (Brazil) - Vasco da Gama
    Leongino UNZAIN (Paraguay) - Nacional
     
  4. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Best South American players - Early 40s
    This is my first list for the 1940-42 era:

    Keepers
    Sergio LIVINGSTONE (Chile) - U.Catolica
    Anibal PAZ (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Sebastian GUALCO (Argentina) - San Lorenzo / Ferro
    Obdulio DIANO (Argentina) - Colo Colo
    Juan HONORES (Peru) - Universitario / Newell's
    Fernando BELLO (Argentina) - Independiente
    Jose SORIANO (Peru) - Diablos Rojos / Banfield
    Juan ESTRADA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    JURANDIR (Brazil) - Ferro / Gimnasia / Flamengo
    Roque MASPOLI (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Julio BARRIOS (Uruguay) - Peñarol / River Plate


    Right Full-back
    Jose SALOMON (Argentina) - Racing
    Domingos DA GUIA (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Juan QUISPE (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    Jose MARANTE (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Hector ROMERO (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Enrique PERALES (Peru) - Municipal
    Armando RENGANESCHI (Argentina) - Fluminense
    Ricardo VAGHI (Argentina) - River Plate


    Left Full-back
    Jorge ALBERTI (Argentina) - Huracan
    Agenor MUÑIZ (Uruguay) - Wanderers / Peñarol
    Avelino CADILLA (Uruguay) - River uruguayo / River Plate
    Sabino COLETTA (Argentina) - Independiente
    Gerardo ARCE (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    Arthur MACHADO (Brazil) - Fluminense
    Humberto ROA (Chile) - Audax Italiano


    Right Half-Backs
    Carlos SOSA (Argentina) - Atlanta / Boca Jrs
    Titina CASTILLO (Peru) - Lanus / Magallanes
    Erebo ZUNINO (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Gregorio ESPERON (Argentina) - Platense
    Roberto SBARRA (Argentina) - Estudiantes / Huracan
    Oscar MONTAÑEZ (Argentina) - Gimnasia
    ZEZE Procopio (Brazil) - Botafogo
    Norberto YACONO (Argentina) - River Plate
    BIGUA (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Teobaldo GUZMAN (Peru) - Municipal / Banfield


    Center Halfback
    Ernesto LAZZATI (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Eugenio GALVALISI (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Angel PERUCCA (Argentina) - Newell's
    Obdulio VARELA (Uruguay) - Wanderers
    Pablo PASACHE (Peru) - Colo Colo / Magallanes
    Oswaldo BRANDAO (Brazil) - Palestra Italia
    Alejandro GONZALES (Peru) - S.Tabaco / Diablos Rojos
    Jose OCAMPOS (Paraguay) - Nacional
    Guillermo ANDRADE (Peru) - Municipal
    Miguel ORTEGA (Paraguay) - Ypiranga
    Bruno RODOLFI (Argentina) - River Plate


    Left Half-Backs
    Schubert GAMBETTA (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Rodolfo COLOMBO (Argentina) - San Lorenzo
    Celestino MARTINEZ (Argentina) - Independiente
    Jose RAMOS (Argentina) - River Plate
    AFONSINHO (Brazil) - Fluminense
    Alfredo NORONHA (Brazil) - Gremio / Sao Paulo
    Aaron WERGIFKER (Argentina) - River / Platense
    Maximo LOBATON (Peru) - Alianza Lima / Magallanes


    Right Winger
    Luis Ernesto CASTRO (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Enrique SORREL (Chile) - Colo Colo
    Pedro AMORIM (Brazil) - Fluminense
    Alberto BELEN (Argentina) - Newell's / Platense
    Juan Carlos MUÑOZ (Argentina) - River Plate
    Leopoldo QUIÑONES (Peru) - Municipal
    Juan Jose MARIL (Argentina) - Independiente


    Inside Right
    Jose Manuel MORENO (Argentina) - River Plate
    Anibal CIOCCA (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Vicente DE LA MATA (Argentina) - Independiente
    Adelfo MAGALLANES (Peru) - Alianza Lima
    ZIZINHO (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Oscar CHIRIMINI (Uruguay) - River uruguayo
    ROMEU Pellicciari (Brazil) - Corinthians / Fluminense
    Armando FARRO (Argentina) - Banfield
    Cesar SOCARRAZ (Peru) - Colo Colo
    Jose CANTELLI (Argentina) - Newell's


    Centreforward
    Atilio GARCIA (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Arsenio ERICO (Paraguay) - Independiente
    LEONIDAS (Brazil) - Flamengo
    Herminio MASANTONIO (Argentina) - Huracan
    Adolfo PEDERNERA (Argentina) - River Plate
    Raul TORO (Chile) - Santiago Morning
    Rene PONTONI (Argentina) - Newell's
    Jaime SARLANGA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Lolo FERNANDEZ (Peru) - Universitario
    Juan MARVEZZI (Argentina) - Tigre
    Sylvio PIRILO (Brazil) - Peñarol / Flamengo


    Inside Left
    Roberto PORTA (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Antonio SASTRE (Argentina) - Independiente / Sao Paulo
    Severino VARELA (Uruguay) - Peñarol
    Rinaldo MARTINO (Argentina) - San Lorenzo
    TIM (Brazil) - Fluminense
    Delfin BENITEZ CACERES (Paraguay) - Racing / Ferro
    Luis "Caricho" GUZMAN (Peru) - Municipal
    Emilio BALDONEDO (Argentina) - Huracan
    Angel LABRUNA (Argentina) - River Plate
    Bernardo GANDULLA (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
    Jose PERACIO (Brazil) - Botafogo / Flamengo


    Left Winger
    Enrique GARCIA (Argentina) - Racing
    Bibiano ZAPIRAÍN (Uruguay) - Nacional
    Jose BALBUENA (Peru) - U de Chile
    Aristobulo DEAMBROSI (Argentina) - River Plate
    PATESKO (Brazil) - Botafogo
    Gabino ARREGUI (Argentina) - Gimnasia
    Raul EMEAL (Argentina) - Boca Jrs
     
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  5. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Hello msioux I wanted to take a little time and go through some of these lists. I was looking through the links on the 2010s best players list. These list are great and provide a great starting point for looking at the great players of South America from these times. Here are some of my thoughts. I would love to hear what you think and some of your reasoning on these rankings, as I am sure you have access to sources I do not.

    Early 40s 40-42. We have three seasons (40, 41, and 42) from the major domestic leagues and two South American Championships (41 and 42) as the major competitions to look at for this time period. Argentina and Uruguay were clearly the best sides in both the CAs each winning one and each coming in a close second in the other, so it makes sense that the top spots in these lists are dominated by players from those nations. The dominant club teams of this period were Nacional, River Plate, Fluminense, Flamengo, and Palmeiras.

    Left Wings: Garcia and Zapirain seem like excellent picks for the top two spots. Garcia was productive domestically and clear first choice for Argentina, and Zapirian appeared to play a very important role in the 42 CA victory and Nacional's dominance (I believe this was the peak of their powers right in the middle of their five-peat and 32 game unbeaten streak). Only thing I was unsure about for this group was Balbuena above Deambrosi and Patesko. I could not find any info on Balbuena, while Deambrosi was still excellent and first choice for River throughout this period while Patesko was still first choice for Brazil but looking at his career maybe he would place higher in the 30s?

    Inside Right: Porta is defiantly in the right place on top. I am not sure about Sastre being so high though for this particular period. Sastre was a starter for the 41 CA victory and scored the winner vs Uruguay but oustide of that Independiente declined in 40 and 41 and then he moved to Sao Paulo in 42 where he had yet to make a major impact. I think he would rate higher in the late 30s for his exploits with Independiente and in CA 37 and in the mid 40s when he led Sao Paulo to the titles. Not saying he should not be ranked I just think that others should be above him for this period. I would probably think he was below Varela and maybe even Martoni and Tim, who were both great domestically but not in CAs.

    Center Forward: I think Erico is to high as well as Leonidas. Erico was still solid in 40 and 41 but no longer top scorer and did not lead the team to titles. He barely played in 1942 and was not involved internationally. He should be on the lower half of the list imo. Leonidas was not involved internationally either and was at an inbetween point between great club runs with Flam. and S.P. He had his famous 30 goals season in 1940 which surely gets him on the list but he barely played in 41 and in 42 moved to S. P. but was yet to make his big impact there. I would defiantly move Pedernera up to at least #2. He was a starter in both CAs and had his most productive period in his club career, and had his famous season with River in 42 where he moved to center forward and lead the team with 23 goals in 24 goals despite his removed role. This move from what I understand was what really created The Machine. I would also move up Saralanga who lead Boca to an impressive title in 1940 over the great River and Independiante teams, and Pirilo who had an excellent CA in 42 despite Brazil being disappointing overall and had his record setting goal scoring season of 39 goals in 1941, that is still the Caroica record to this day.

    Inside Left: De la Mata is way to high imo. He was solid for Ind. but not spectacular was he was in the late 30s. He also made zero appearances in the the two CAs for this period. I am also unsure/unfamiliar with Magallanes and Chirimini. I would maybe move up Zizinho (broke through in 42 leading Flamengo to the title and becoming 1st choice for Bazil) and Romeu (who from what I have read was the key player for the 40 and 41 Caroica titles for Flum) to below Moreno and Ciocca, the two clear leaders for this group.

    Right Wing: Looks pretty good to me, not as many star players in this position. Half backs and defenders all looked good as well with the obvious names to me (Gambetta, Lazzatti, Sosa, Salomon, Da Guia) all rating highly.

    One thing I noticed is that only one Palmeiras player is ranked despite them winning the Paulista two of the three seasons in this period. I don't know much about this team but it seems like they would be candidates to have a few more players included.
     
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  6. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #6 msioux75, May 21, 2014
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
    Thanks for your nice comments Tom.
    I'll answer some of your questions (the best i can) these days.
    As you well said, my intention is to have a starting point to discuss some unknown players, prime years, etc.
    And especially know more about some players out of my radar or with little knowledge about.

    PS:
    I think you made fair observations about the top NTs/clubs in those eras and how should be reflected in the lists. A clear point to review for 2nd version.

    Maybe, will be interesting made groupings with stars (1-4) as in the 2010s list. Even when it will be too adventurous. I hope most people understand that it's only a retrospectively aproximation.
     
  7. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I would love to see you give the 30s a shot as well.
     
  8. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I'm working on it :)

    And i'd like to see the euro version somewhere.
     
  9. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Some stats for Early-40s list (version 1)


    101 players listed = 9.2 players per position


    Players by country:
    Argentina - 43
    Uruguay - 17
    Perú - 17
    Brazil - 16
    Chile - 4
    Paraguay - 4


    Clubs by League:
    Argentina - 15
    Brazil - 8
    Perú - 5
    Chile - 5
    Uruguay - 4
    Paraguay - 1


    Players by league*:
    Argentina - 49
    Brazil - 18
    Uruguay - 17
    Perú - 11
    Chile - 8
    Paraguay - 1


    Clubs with more players:
    River Plate - 12
    Nacional Montevideo - 9
    Independiente - 7
    Boca Jrs - 7
    Flamengo - 7
    Peñarol - 6
    Fluminense - 6
    Newell's - 5
    Municipal - 5
    Colo Colo - 4
    Huracán - 4
    Alianza Lima - 4
    .......


    * Note: To determinate which league had been more represented, i did this.
    A player who stay all 3 years in one club = 1; in other cases count as 0.5
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  10. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    For the 2nd version, i feel that i'm missing some things:
    - Increase the list until a 10 players per position.
    - Add some uruguayans and brazilians.
    - Lack of info about chileans and paraguayans.
    - I know more about peruvians, so, many names could be bonderline, adding unknown players.

    Some clubs don't mentioned:
    Uruguay (Rampla, Liverpool, Central, Sudamérica), Brazil (Portuguesa, Vasco, Internacional), Paraguay (Cerro Porteño, Sol de América, Olimpia), Chile (U de Chile, Green Cross, Santiago Juventus), Argentina (Rosario Central, Chacarita), Perú (Sport Boys)
     
  11. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Mid 40s (43-46). Two major intentional comps, 1945 and 1946 South American Championships both won by Argentina. In Uruguay Nacional's total dominance was ended as Penarol were again on equal terms with their rivals, each team winning two tiles in this period. Boca Jr win the first two titles of the period in Argentina, followed by a return to the top for River Plate and finally by San Lorenzo's famous title winning squad that later toured Europe. In the Paulista Sao Paulo were dominant taking 3 of 4 titles behind Leonidas and Sastre among others (Palmeiras the fourth). In the Carioca Flamengo won in 43 and 44 led by Zizinho, then great Vasco side that would become known as the victory express won its first title in 45. Finally Ademir helped Flum win the title in 46, winning two straight years with two different teams. Before the 46 season Flum's coach famously said that if he was given Ademir he would guaranteed the title, both the coach player delivered on this promise.

    Left Wing: Loustau and Ademir are the two clear front runners. Loustau probably had a better international resume for this period, being the undisputed starter for both CA winning sides in 45 and 46. Loustau club career seems strong enough although River only won one title in this period. Ademir was good CA 45 with runners up Brazil, but did not feature in 46. He seems like a more impactfull club player though, as his presence alone tips the balance of power from team to team, with coaches guaranteeing titles if they can acquire him. I personally might switch the two but they are very close. All I know about Pelegrina is he got one start in CA 45, indicating he was the second best Arg. winger after Loustau. I am not sure why Garcia is still ranked as his career appears to be over in 1943, when he made his last NT appearances then, he only made a few appearances for Racing in 43 and 44 and none in 45 or 46. Zapirain was still being capped for the national team although Uruguay disappointed in both CAs. He was also still important to Nacional who took tow titles. Maybe Chico could be a bit higher?

    Inside Left: Martino seems like a no brainier in first position for me. Great for club and country. After that it gets tough. I might move Porta down as Uruguay and Nacional were not as dominant as they were in the early 40s, and the competition is strong at this position. Also, he only made 3 appearances for Nacional in 46 before retiring so he only played 3 of the 4 years in this period. Varela was obviously great for Boca leading them to two impressive titles in 43 and 44, however he was no longer in the national team. I would probably put Labruna 2nd. This was his peak goalscoring period (23 in 1943 Arg. top scorer, 25 in 1944, 25 in 1945 Arg. top scorer, and 15 in 1946) becoming the primary goalscorer for River with the departure of Moreno. He was also excellent in the 46 CA.

    Centerforward: Pontoni seems a strong choice for #1 with a strong CA 45 and the legendary 1946 season with San Lorenzo followed by the international tour that led many to declare him the best player in the world. Although his goalscoring numbers and trophies won were diminished compared to the early 40s, Pedernera is probably somewhere in the top half of the list, with the strong CA 46 to his name. As good a Fernandez was it is hard to see him as #3 with Peru not participating in either CA. Heleno and Saralanga seem well placed. I would move Leonidas up on the strength of his great club performances for Sao Paulo, leading them to three titles. I would also move up Atilio Garcia, although nacional were no as dominant he was still top scorer in three of the 4 Uruguayan seasons, including both of the editions Nacional won. He was also excellent in CA 45 for Uruguay. I still see him as at top three. I find it hard to see Erico still on the list with Independiente out of the title picture, him averaging 5. goals per game at the most, and his lack of international participation.

    Inside Right: This one needs some reshuffling imo. Moreno can't be number one no matter what his reputation. He did not participate in either CA, and he spent two years at River (43, 44, and part of 46) winning no titles and barely playing in 44 or 46. He also spent two years in Mexico. That just does not stack up the the resumes of the three players below him in this period. Sastre was great for his club in this period and defiantly deserves to be ranked high, but in my opinion the top two players at this position and this period are Zizinho and Norberto Mendez. Zizinho led Flamengo to two titles in Brazil and was their key player for both runner up finishes in the CAs, scoring 7 times. Mendez was excellent for Huracan and had two all time great performances in the CAs. In 45 he was the tournament top scorer with 6 goals, including a legendary hat trick in their decisive win over Brazil. He scored 5 times in 46 and once again came up big in the climactic showdown with Brazil, scoring both goals in a 2-0 victory. He was Argentina's top scorer in both tournaments despite the fact he was known as an excellent creative player and passer more than a goalscorer.

    Those are the main positions I know enough players to have big opinions on.

    Also Bauer seems like he needs to be on the Center-half list, as he was a very important part of Sao Paulo's three titles.

    On the right wing i would favor Boye over Munoz. Neither had the first team spot nailed down for Argentina but Boye has a more impressive club record imo, scoring 14 times in both of Boca's title winning sides and then becoming the leagues top scorer in 1946 with 24 goals. Overall he scored 71 goals in 4 seasons for Boca, a very impressive number for any forward, much less one predominantly a winger.

    Also what about ranking Raul Schiffiano, the less famous of the Schiffiano brothers? Although his career was very short he was top scorer for Perarol in 1945 leading them to the title. He also started all of Uruguay's CA 46 games. Some of the quotes from his Spanish wiki indicate that he was though of as the best player in the Uruguayan league in 45 and 46. I am not sure exacly where he played other than somewhere in the inside trio. His career was ended at the close of the 46 season by a knee injury at the age of only 24.

    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raúl_Schiaffino
     
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  12. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Thanks for your insight, Tom

    The lists need a review, for sure.
    I'm adding some stats and groupings later to make to help the debate.
     
  13. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Late 40s, we have three domestic seasons 47, 48, and 49 and two CAs. In 1947 Argentina won its third consecutive in three years although Brazil was absent this time and in 1949 Brazil dominated an edition where their long time tormentors Argentina were absent. Both editions Paraguay made good showings coming in 2nd.

    Left Wing: Loustau seems like a clear choice for #1. Don't know much about Pelegrina but he was very productive. I am unsure about Sued. Early 50s he definitely makes it as he was very productive for the later two titles in Racing's three-peat. The title in 49 he only played half the games that season and was not a part of the national team. Also unsure about Zapirain at this points as I have no idea how well he played in his two seasons at Inter and he was not involved in the CAs. Maybe consider Simao who was excellent for Brazil in CA 49?

    http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Simão_Aquino_de_Araújo

    Inside Left: I know Gomez was very highly thought of in Uruguay in the late 40s and was going to be their starting center forward in WC 50 if not for the suspension, but he does not have the accomplishments to compare to Ademir imo (side note, did Gomez do enough to slip in to the lower half of the mid 40s list? Not sure how big a part he played in those two titles but it was enough to get him his senior international debut in CA 46). Ademir excelled for club and country with all time great performances for both. Gomez was a big part in one domestic title, played a half season in 48, and missed most of 1949 for punching a referee. He also did not play for his national team (I have no clue why he was not selected for CA 47 or 49 after being selected in 46? Did Uruguay take their A teams to 47 and 49?). Martino was excellent at the club level for two years with San Lorenzo and then a very successful foray into Italy, winning the title with Juventus over peaking gre-no-li Milan who set a record for goals scored in a season. He was supplanted in the national team by a returning Moreno. For that reason I might slip Jair above him, who was absolutely dominating at Ca 49.

    Inside Right: Top three look good to me, they could go in any order. All three had one great CA. Zizinho probably had the weakest club resume for this period. I am unsure about Pedernera at this time. Not sure how good he was for Atlanta, only played a half season for Huracan in 48. I know in 49 their are some famous quotes about how great he was in his debut for Columbia but the quality of the league might be an issue.

    I am not sure what position he played but Jorge Bentiez seems to have a very good resume for Paraguay. Played for Nacional and Boca Jr at the club level and scored 7 goals in 7 games for Paraguay in the 49 CA.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Duilio_Benitez

    Center half is stacked for this period with Alvim, Bauer, Varela, Rossi, and Perucca all in top form. Not sure how to order them but i would love to hear more about those players.
     
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  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Great post again, mate :cool:
    Many things to considering.
    btw, i'm posting the resumes, i guess also helps.
     
  15. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Stats for mid-40s list (v.1)


    106 players listed = 9.6 players per position


    Players by country:
    Argentina - 38
    Brazil - 20
    Perú - 20
    Uruguay - 12
    Paraguay - 9
    Chile - 6
    Bolivia - 1


    Clubs by League:
    Argentinian - 13
    Brazilian - 11
    Peruvian - 6
    Chilean - 4
    Uruguayan - 4
    Paraguayan - 4
    Mexican - 2
    Venezuelan - 1
    Bolivian - 1


    Players by league*:
    Argentina - 40
    Brazil - 23
    Perú - 17
    Uruguay - 12
    Chile - 6
    Paraguay - 5
    Mexico - 2
    Bolivia - 1
    Venezuela - 1


    Clubs with more players:
    River Plate - 11
    Boca Jrs - 10
    Sao Paulo - 9
    Nacional Montevideo - 8
    Municipal - 7
    Flamengo - 6
    San Lorenzo - 5
    Vasco - 5
    Racing - 4
    Universitario - 4
    Estudiantes - 4
    Alianza Lima - 4
    .......


    * Note: To determinate which league had been more represented, i did this.
    A player who stay all 3 years in one club = 1; in other cases count as 0.5
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  16. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Stats for late-40s list (v.1)


    110 players listed = 10 players per position


    Players by country:
    Argentina - 31
    Perú - 23
    Brazil - 17
    Uruguay - 16
    Paraguay - 13
    Chile - 8
    Bolivia - 1
    Ecuador - 1


    Clubs by League:
    Argentinian - 8
    Uruguayan - 7
    Brazilian - 6
    Colombian - 6
    Peruvian - 5
    Chilean - 5
    Paraguayan - 5
    Mexican - 4
    Italian - 3
    Bolivian - 1


    Players by league*:
    Argentina - 28
    Brazil - 18
    Perú - 16
    Uruguay - 15
    Chile - 8
    Paraguay - 7
    Colombia - 6
    Mexico - 4
    Italia - 2
    Bolivia - 1


    Clubs with more players:
    Vasco - 9
    Racing - 9
    River Plate - 7
    Nacional Montevideo - 7
    Boca Jrs - 7
    Peñarol - 6
    Huracán - 6
    Flamengo - 5
    Alianza Lima - 5
    U.Católica - 5
    Universitario - 4
    Atlético Chalaco - 4
    Sport Boys - 4
    .......


    * Note: To determinate which league had been more represented, i did this.
    A player who stay all 3 years in one club = 1; in other cases count as 0.5
     
  17. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    btw, for this first attemp.
    I think that: Clubs by league, Players by league & Clubs with more players resumes, gives a better overall picture for the SA football in the 40s
     
  18. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    This also add to a self-criticism.
    The most prominent SA sides in the early 1940s

    ------------- champion ----- 2nd --------- 3rd
    Arg 1940 --- Boca Jrs Independiente -- River
    Arg 1941 ----- River --- San Lorenzo -- Newell's
    Arg 1942 ----- River --- San Lorenzo -- Huracán
    Uru 1940 --- Nacional - Rampla Jrs - Wanderers
    Uru 1941 --- Nacional---- Peñarol --- Rampla Jrs
    Uru 1942 --- Nacional---- Peñarol ---- Wanderers Car 1940 -- Fluminense - Flamengo
    Car 1941 -- Fluminense - Flamengo
    Car 1942 --- Flamengo --- Botafogo
    Paul 1940 --- Palestra -- Portuguesa
    Paul 1941 - Corinthians -- Sao Paulo
    Paul 1942 -- Palmeiras -- Corinthians
    Per 1940 --- Municipal --Universitario
    Per 1941 -- Universitario - Municipal
    Per 1942 --- Sport Boys -- Municipal
    Chi 1940 --- U de Chile ---Audax It.
    Chi 1941 ---- Colo Colo - Stgo.Morning
    Chi 1942 -- Stgo.Morning - Magallanes
    Par 1940 --- Cerro Port. -Sol de América
    Par 1941 ---- Cerro Port. --- Olimpia
    Par 1942 -- Club Nacional - Cerro Port.

    Notes:
    In 1940, Ricardo Aldao cup was shared by Nacional and Boca.
    In 1941, River beat Nacional
    In 1942, Nacional beat River.
    http://www.rsssf.com/sacups/aldao.html
    In 1941, San Lorenzo beat Peñarol for the runner-up Copa.
    In 1942, Peñarol won San Lorenzo
    http://www.rsssf.com/sacups/escobargerona.html
    In 1942, was played the Santiago Cup: 1)Peñarol 2) River 3) Colo Colo
    http://www.rsssf.com/tabless/santiago-clubtourn.html
    In the 1940 Rio-Sao Paulo tournament the 1st place was shared by Fluminense and Flamengo
     
    JamesBH11 repped this.
  19. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    A few more competitions that might be worth considering on the international side are the Copa Roca and the Copa Branco.

    Copa Roca was a three game series played between Argentina and Brazil in 1939/1940, 1940, and 1945 for this period.

    Copa Branco was was a series played between Brazil and Uruguay in 1940, 1946, 1947, and 1948 during this period.

    Links contain lineups and goal scorers.


    1939/1940 Copa Rio. It was a four game series as the first three games ended 1-1-1. The last two games were played in 1940.

    Feb 18 1940
    Brz 2 - 2 Arg
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/brazil-v-argentina-18-february-1940-225024/

    Feb 25 1940
    Brz 0 - 3 Arg
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/brazil-v-argentina-25-february-1940-225026/


    1940 Copa Roca featured Argentina's record for largets win over Brazil.

    Mar 5 1940
    Arg 6 - 1 Brz
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/argentina-v-brazil-05-march-1940-225030/

    Mar 10 1940
    Arg 2 - 3 Brz
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/argentina-v-brazil-10-march-1940-225032/

    Mar 17 1940
    Arg 5 - 1 Brz
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/argentina-v-brazil-17-march-1940-225036/


    1945 Copa Roca saw Brazil, their only major victory over Argentina in the 40s.

    Dec 16 1945
    Brz 3 - 4 Arg
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/brazil-v-argentina-16-december-1945-225291/

    Dec 20 1945
    Brz 6 - 2 Arg
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/brazil-v-argentina-20-december-1945-225292/

    Dec 23 1945
    Brz 3 - 1 Arg
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/brazil-v-argentina-23-december-1945-225293/

    Interesting players got some big runs for both teams in these games, slightly different than in some of the Copa America's around the same time. Leonidas plays in alsmost all the Brazil games and gets on the score sheet often. Baldonedo is a huge players for Argentina in the two Copas form the early 40s, I believe the top scorer for both.


    1940 Copa Branco was a two game series with a strong performance from S. Varela giving Uruguay the victory in Brazil.

    Mar 24 1940
    Brz 3 - 4 Uru
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/brazil-v-uruguay-24-march-1940-225037/

    Mar 31 1940
    Brz 1 - 1 Uru
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/brazil-v-uruguay-31-march-1940-225041/


    1946 was a two game series won by Uruguay at home.

    Jan 5 1946
    Uru 4 - 3 Brz
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/uruguay-v-brazil-05-january-1946-225294/

    Jan 9 1946
    Uru 1 - 1 Brz
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/uruguay-v-brazil-09-january-1946-225295/



    1947 was a three game series won by Brazil played in both countries.

    Mar 29 1947
    Uru 0 - 0 Brz
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/uruguay-v-brazil-29-march-1947-225407/

    Apr 1 1947
    Brz 3 - 2 Uru
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/brazil-v-uruguay-01-april-1947-225408/

    Apr 4 1947
    Uru 1 - 1 Brz
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/uruguay-v-brazil-04-april-1947-225409/


    1948 was a single game won by Uruguay in Uruguay.

    Apr 11 1948
    Uru 4 - 2 Brz
    http://www.11v11.com/matches/uruguay-v-brazil-11-april-1948-225544/
     
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  20. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    The most prominent SA sides in the mid 1940s

    ------------- champion ---- 2nd -------- 3rd
    Arg 1943 --- Boca Jrs ---- River -- San Lorenzo
    Arg 1944 ----Boca Jrs --- River --- Estudiantes
    Arg 1945 ----- River --- Boca Jrs -Independiente
    Arg 1946 - San Lorenzo Boca Jrs ----- River
    Uru 1943 --- Nacional -- Peñarol --- Miramar
    Uru 1944 ---- Peñarol--- Nacional -- Defensor
    Uru 1945 ---- Peñarol--- Nacional -- Defensor
    Uru 1946 --- Nacional--- Peñarol --- River-uru-
    Car 1943 --- Flamengo -Fluminense
    Car 1944 --- Flamengo ----Vasco
    Car 1945 ------ Vasco --- Botafogo
    Car 1946 -- Fluminense - Botafogo
    Paul 1943 -- Sao Paulo - Corinthians
    Paul 1944 -- Palmeiras -- Sao Paulo
    Paul 1945 -- Sao Paulo - Corinthians
    Paul 1946 -- Sao Paulo -- Corinthians
    Per 1943 --- Municipal --Alianza Lima
    Per 1944 ------ Sucre ----- Municipal
    Per 1945 -- Universitario - Municipal
    Per 1946 -- Universitario - Municipal
    Chi 1943 --- U.Española ---Colo Colo
    Chi 1944 -----Colo Colo ----Audax It.
    Chi 1945 ---Green Cross Unión Española
    Chi 1946 ---- Audax Ital. -- Magallanes
    Par 1943 ------ Libertad ----- Olimpia
    Par 1944 -- Cerro Porteño ---Libertad
    Par 1945 ------ Libertad ---Cerro Porteño
    Par 1946 -- Club Nacional -Sol de América

    Notes:
    In 1943, Racing beat Rosario Central, Magallanes and Colo Colo for the Santiago Cup.
    In 1945, River beat Peñarol in the Ricardo Aldao cup (winners)
    In 1945, Boca shared with Nacional the Escobar Gerona Copa (runner up)
    In 1946, Boca beat Peñarol for the same Copa
     
  21. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    The most prominent SA sides in the late 1940s

    ------------- champion ----- 2nd -------- 3rd
    Arg 1947 ----- River ----- Boca Jrs -Independiente
    Arg 1948 Independiente- River ---- Estudiantes
    Arg 1949 -----Racing ----- River ------ Platense
    Uru 1947 --- Nacional --- Peñarol ---- Rampla
    Uru 1948 --- Nacional--- Peñarol --- River-uru-
    Uru 1949 ---- Peñarol---- Nacional --- Rampla
    Car 1947 ------ Vasco ---- Botafogo
    Car 1948 --- Botafogo -----Vasco
    Car 1949 ----- Vasco --- Fluminense
    Paul 1947 -- Palmeiras - Corinthians
    Paul 1948 -- Sao Paulo ---- Santos
    Paul 1949-- Sao Paulo -- Palmeiras
    Per 1947 ---- Chalaco ----Municipal
    Per 1948- Alianza Lima -- Chalaco
    Per 1949- Universitario --- Sucre
    Chi 1947 ----Colo Colo ----Audax It.
    Chi 1948 ---Audax Ital. Unión Española
    Chi 1949 -- U.Católica - Stgo.Wanderers
    Par 1947 ---- Olimpia ------Guaraní
    Par 1948 ---- Olimpia ---Cerro Porteño
    Par 1949 ---- Guaraní ---Club Nacional

    Notes:
    In 1947 (jan-feb) was played La Copa del Atlántico, 1)Boca and Nacional 3) Peñarol 4) River 5) Palmeiras and Vasco
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesa/atlantico47.HTML

    In 1947, River beat Nacional in Aldao Cup (winners)
    In 1948 was played the SA clubs championship
    http://www.rsssf.com/sacups/copa48det.html

    Also a brazilian tour by Libertad (Par) in 1946
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesl/libertad-trip46.HTML

    Some mexican tours by SA clubs (inc. Ferencvaros and Bratislava)
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesv/velez-mextrip40.html
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesb/botafogo-mex41.html
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/estudiantes-mex41.HTML
    http://www.rsssf.com/tabless/sucre-mex41.HTML
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesl/lorenzo-mex42.html
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesf/fradi47tour.HTML
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesr/racing-mex47tour.html
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/independiente-mex48tour.html
    http://www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nvbratislava-mex48tour.html
     
  22. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
  23. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Best South American players - Early 30s
    This is the list in its first version for the 1930-32 era:

    Keepers
    BALLESTEROS, Enrique (Uru) – Rampla Jrs
    VALDIVIESO, Juan (Per) – Alianza Lima
    JAGUARÉ (Bra) – Vasco / Corinthians
    BOSSIO, Ángel (Arg) – Talleres Escalada
    DENIS, Modesto (Par) – Club Nacional
    BOTASSO, Juan (Arg) - Racing
    PARDÓN, Jorge (Per) – Sporting Tabaco
    VELLOSO, Oswaldo (Bra) - Fluminense
    BENÍTEZ, Pedro (Par) – Libertad / Atlanta


    Right Full-back
    NASAZZI, José (Uru) - Bellavista
    DELLATORRE, José (Arg) - Racing
    DA GUÍA, Domingos (Bra) – Bangú
    TARRÍO, Óscar (Arg) – San Lorenzo / Newell’s
    SALDARRIAGA, Alfonso (Per) – Hidroaviación / Frigorífico
    MORALES, Víctor (Chi) – Colo Colo
    IRIBARREN, Juan Carlos (Arg) – River Plate
    GRANÉ, Pedro (Bra) - Corinthians
    OLMEDO, Quiterio (Par) – Club Nacional
    FERNÁNDEZ, Arturo (Per) – Fed. Universitaria


    Left Full-back
    PATERNÓSTER, Fernando (Arg) – Racing / Vélez
    MASCHERONI, Ernesto (Uru) – Peñarol
    ARISPE, Pedro (Uru) – Rampla Jrs.
    MAQUILÓN, Antonio (Per) – Chalaco / Frigorífico
    MUTIS, Ramón (Arg) – Boca Jrs.
    TEJERA, Domingo (Uru) - Wanderers
    CUELLO, Alberto (Arg) – Tigre / River Plate
    RIVEROS, Guillermo (Chi) – La Cruz
    ITÁLIA; Luis Gervasoni (Bra) - Vasco
    SORIA, Alberto (Per) – Alianza Lima


    Right Half-Backs
    EVARISTO, Juan (Arg) – Sportivo Palermo / Boca Jrs
    ANDRADE, José Leandro (Uru) – Nacional / Peñarol
    CHIVIDINI, Alberto (Arg) – Estudiantil Porteño / Vélez
    TORRES, Arturo (Chi) – Colo Colo
    ETCHEVERRY, Romildo (Par) - Olimpia
    DE JONGE, Rodolfo (Arg) – San Telmo / Independiente
    LÓPEZ, Arcadio (Arg) – Lanús
    HERMÓGENES (Bra) – América Río
    DENEGRI, Alberto (Per) – Fed. Universitaria


    Center Halfback
    MONTI, Luis (Arg) – San Lorenzo / Juventus
    CORAZZO, Juan Carlos (Uru) – Sudamérica / Racing
    FAUSTO dos Santos (Bra) – Vasco / Barcelona
    SAAVEDRA, Guillermo (Chi) – Colo Colo
    FERNÁNDEZ, Lorenzo (Uru) – Peñarol
    OCCHIUZZI, Francisco (Uru) - Wanderers
    ZUMELZÚ, Adolfo (Arg) – Sportivo Palermo / Tigre
    MINELLA, José María (Arg) – Gimnasia
    FLEITAS SOLICH, Manuel (Par) – Boca Jrs / Platense
    URBIETA SOSA, Constantino (Par) – Club Nacional / Tigre


    Left Half-Backs
    GESTIDO, Álvaro (Uru) – Peñarol
    FACCIO, Ricardo (Uru) – Wanderers / Nacional
    SUÁREZ, “Arico” (Arg) – Ferro / Boca Jrs.
    ORLANDINI, Rodolfo (Arg) – Estudiantil Porteño / Genoa
    BRIZUELA, Bartolomé (Par) - Chacarita
    GARCÍA, Domingo (Per) – Alianza Lima
    SERAFINI, Enrique (Bra) – Palestra Italia / Lazio
    ASTENGO, Eduardo (Per) – Fed. Universitaria
    GARCETE, Tranquilino (Par) – Pdte Hayes / Libertad


    Right Winger
    PEUCELLE, Carlos (Arg) – Sportivo Bs.As./River Plate
    PORTA, Roberto (Uru) – Nacional / Independiente
    LAVALLE, José María (Per) – Alianza Lima
    LAURI, Miguel Ángel (Arg) – Estudiantes
    FILÓ (Bra) – Corinthians / Lazio
    DORADO, Pablo (Uru) – Bellavista / River PLate
    FRIONE, Francisco (Uru) – Wanderers
    CARRICABERRY, Alfredo (Arg) – San Lorenzo / Huracán
    NESSI, Lino (Par) - Libertad
    PERINETTI, Natalio (Arg) – Racing Club


    Inside Right
    VARALLO, Francisco (Arg) – Gimnasia / Boca Jrs.
    CASTRO, Héctor (Uru) – Nacional / Estudiantes
    SCOPELLI, Alejandro (Arg) – Estudiantes
    SCARONE, Héctor (Uru) – Nacional / Ambrosiana
    FEITICO (Bra) – Santos
    SASTRE, Antonio (Arg) - Independiente
    ROMEU Pelliciari (Bra) – Palestra Italia
    NILO (Bra) – Botafogo
    LAGO, Pedro (Uru) – Peñarol / River
    MONTELLANOS, Alberto (Per) – Alianza Lima
    SUBIABRE, Guillermo (Chi) – Colo Colo


    Centreforward
    STÁBILE, Guillermo (Arg) – Genoa
    PETRONE, Pedro (Uru) – Nacional / Fiorentina
    FERREYRA, Bernabé (Arg) – Tigre / River Plate
    VILLANUEVA, Alejandro (Per) – Alianza Lima
    GONZÁLEZ, Aurelio (Par) - Olimpia
    RUSSINHO (Bra) - Vasco
    BENÍTEZ CÁCERES, Delfín (Par) - Libertad
    ZOZAYA, Alberto (Arg) – Estudiantes
    DUHART, Pedro (Uru) – Nacional
    CARVALHO Leite (Bra) – Botafogo
    FRIEDENREICH, Artur (Bra) – Sao Paulo


    Inside Left
    CHERRO, Roberto (Arg) – Boca Jrs.
    FERREIRA, Manuel (Arg) - Estudiantes
    FEDULLO, Francisco (Uru) – Bologna
    ANSELMO, Peregrino (Uru) – Peñarol
    PREGUINHO (Bra) - Fluminense
    DEMARÍA, Atilio (Arg) – Gimnasia / Ambrosiana
    GIUDICE, Carlos (Chi) – Audax Italiano / Peñarol
    CEA, Pedro (Uru) - Nacional
    ZITO, Vicente (Arg) – Racing
    ARAKEN Patusca (Bra) – Sao Paulo


    Left Winger
    FIGUEROA, Roberto (Uru) – Wanderers
    GUAITA, Enrique (Arg) - Estudiantes

    SCHENËEBERGER, Carlos (Chi) – Colo Colo
    EVARISTO, Mario (Arg) – Boca Jrs / Sportivo Barracas
    IRIARTE, Santos (Uru) – Racing Montevideo / Peñarol
    AVILÉS, Moisés (Chi) – Audax Italiano
    SALDOMBIDE, Zoilo (Uru) - Nacional
    VARGAS PEÑA, Luis (Par) - Olimpia
    SPADARO, Carlos (Arg) – Estudiantil Porteño / Lanús
     
    Tom Stevens repped this.
  24. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Resume for Early-30s list (version 1)


    108 players listed = 9.8 players per position


    Players by country:
    Argentina - 34
    Uruguay - 25
    Brazil - 17
    Paraguay - 12 Perú - 12
    Chile - 8


    Clubs by League:
    Argentina - 22
    Brazil - 10
    Uruguay - 7
    Perú - 6
    Italy - 5
    Paraguay - 4
    Chile - 3


    Players by league*:
    Argentina - 38
    Uruguay - 20
    Brazil - 17
    Perú - 11
    Paraguay - 9
    Chile - 7
    Italy - 5


    Clubs with more players:
    Nacional Montevideo - 9
    Peñarol - 8
    Boca Jrs - 7
    Estudiantes - 6 River Plate - 6
    Alianza Lima - 6
    Racing - 6
    Colo Colo - 5
    Vasco - 4
    Wanderers - 4
    Libertad - 4
    Tigre - 4
    .......


    * Note: To determinate which league had been more represented, i did this.
    A player who stay all 3 years in one club = 1; in other cases count as 0.5
     
  25. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    The most prominent SA sides in the early 1930s

    ------------- champion ----- 2nd --------- 3rd
    Arg 1930 --- Boca Jrs --Estudiantes ---- River
    Arg 1931 ----Boca Jrs - San Lorenzo - Estudiantes
    Arg 1932 ----- River - Independiente --- Racing
    Uru 1930 -------- not played
    Uru 1931 -- Wanderers-- Nacional --- Rampla Jrs
    Uru 1932 ---- Peñarol-- Rampla Jrs --- Nacional
    Car 1930 --- Botafogo ---- Vasco
    Car 1931 ---- América ---- Vasco
    Car 1932 --- Botafogo -- Flamengo
    Paul 1930 -Corinthians - Sao Paulo
    Paul 1931 -- Sao Paulo - Palestra It.
    Paul 1932 - Palestra It. --Sao Paulo
    Per 1930 -- At.Chalaco -Alianza Lima
    Per 1931 - Alianza Lima - Sp.Tabaco
    Per 1932 -Alianza Lima -F.Universitaria
    Chi 1930 -- Colo Colo ---Stgo.Badminton
    Chi 1931 -- Audax Ital. --- Magallanes
    Chi 1932 -- Audax Ital. --- Colo Colo
    Par 1930 --- Libertad ------River-par-
    Par 1931 --- Olimpia ------ Libertad
    Par 1932 ------ not played

    Notes:
    In the period 1930-32, was considered the Santiago league
    In 1932, Paraguayan league wasn't played due to war
     

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