I think the solutions I'll probably settle on when I do write out the overlapping teams again will be as follows: - Effectively Mortensen in for Milburn, and also Peucelle coming in as suggested. - Leonidas moving back into the 1930-1940 reserve selection, and probably getting the inside right slot with Binder at centre forward rather than vice versa. - Going with the popular verdict on Porta and Tesourinha by moving them each one period later, and putting Lawton as a centre forward for 1935-1945, hence a centre forward spot for an English player for 1940-1950 too, which could still go to Milburn maybe but I'll settle on Mortensen. I think I might switch Moreno and Zsengellar between inside right and left even too! I'm not completely sure between Walter and Pedernera for 40-50 either but I'll leave that as it is.
I think I do have one other correction to make though: I had intended to include Lazar of Hungary as right half, but wrote Polgar. Both of them had been Hungarian Player of the Year, but that was about all I had to go on apart from them being in the World Cup team. Lazar is the one who played in that semi-midfield position to the right though it seems. I think, hopefully, that concludes all I'll be writing for now on the thread!
Maybe it's interesting to add this though, although some of you will be aware of it via Wikipedia I think, and it is a retrospective attempt just like we are doing.... Translated page for a Ukrainian reference to lists and teams by decade broadcast by Berlin-Britz radio: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=uk&u=https://www.upl.ua/ua/news/view/1428?id=1428&prev=search So you can see teams on the page (as stated on Wikipedia with Livingstone as goalkeeper of the 40s and Carizzo as goalkeeper of the 50s for example in effect), a bit like Pollo did originally on here, but also their votes for the top 10 of each decade, updated in 1999 (for the majority of the decades), 2009, and then a bit prematurely in 2017. The translations are probably ok, but I'll type out the top 10s on here (maybe even more relevant to the thread title than making best XIs anyway) - interestingly Maldini didn't go in the 90s list and then was placed high up in the 00s one for example, while Zidane, Shevchenko, Figo were not considered perhaps for the 90s one if it was produced a bit before the end of 99 and/or on the basis of needing a decent body of work to qualify, like with a few other of the end of century lists (or they just didn't make it for the 90s). You can see lists for 1900s/1910s too if you scroll down, with Billy Meredith and Imre Schlosser respectively picked as the top players, but starting in the 1920s this is what they had: 1920s 1 Jose Andrade, 2 Ricardo Zamora, 3 Hector Scarone, 4 Hughie Gallacher, 5 Arthur Friedenreich, 6 Charlie Buchan, 7 Vaclav Kuhar, 8 Jose Nasazzi, 9 Karel Pesek, 10 Giampiero Combi 1930s 1 Matthias Sindelar, 2 Giussepe Meazza, 3 Frantisek Planicka, 4 Leonidas, 5 Silvio Piola, 6 Arsenio Erico, 7 Dixie Dean, 8 Jimmy McGrory, 9 Gyorgy Sarosi, 10 Antonio Sastre 1940s 1 Stanley Matthews, 2 Jose Manuel Moreno, 3 Valentino Mazzola, 4 Josef Bican, 5 Telmo Zarra, 6 Ademir, 7 Adolfo Pedernera, 8 Tommy Lawton, 9 Gyula Zsengellar, 10 Franz Binder 1950s 1 Alfredo Di Stefano, 2 Ferenc Puskas, 3 Garrincha, 4 Juan Schiaffino, 5 Raymond Kopa, 6 Fritz Walter, 7 Didi, 8 Gunnar Nordahl, 9 Amadeo Carizzo, 10 Just Fontaine 1960s 1 Pele, 2 Eusebio, 3 Gianni Rivera, 4 George Best, 5 Bobby Moore, 6 Lev Yashin, 7 Bobby Charlton, 8 Luis Suarez Miramontes, 9 Alberto Spencer, 10 Uwe Seeler 1970s 1 Johan Cruyff, 2 Franz Beckenbauer, 3 Oleg Blokhin, 4 Gerd Muller, 5 Dino Zoff, 6 Elias Figueroa, 7 Teofilo Cubillas, 8 Johan Neeskens, 9 Mario Kempes, 10 Kazimierz Deyna 1980s 1 Diego Maradona, 2 Michel Platini, 3 Zico, 4 Lothar Matthaus, 5 Ruud Gullit, 6 Enzo Francescoli, 7 Marco van Basten, 8 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, 9 Rinat Dasaev, 10 Hugo Sanchez 1990s 1 Michael Laudrup, 2 Ronaldo, 3 Roberto Baggio, 4 Romario, 5 Hristo Stoichkov, 6 Eric Cantona, 7 Jurgen Klinsmann, 8 Peter Schmeichel, 9 Franco Baresi, 10 Dennis Bergkamp 2000s 1 Zinedine Zidane, 2 Ronaldinho, 3 Andriy Shevchenko, 4 Paolo Maldini, 5 Luis Figo, 6 Gianluigi Buffon, 7 Roberto Carlos, 8 Thierry Henry, 9 Pavel Nedved, 10 Samuel Eto'o 2010s 1 Lionel Messi/Cristiano Ronaldo, 3 Andres Iniesta, 4 Neymar, 5 Robert Lewandowski, 6 Manuel Neuer, 7 Luca Modric, 8 Luis Suarez, 9 Sergio Ramos, 10 Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Rather than type it out here is the copy and paste for the translation of the teams chosen (with coach/manager too) so that it's here to stay, including De Korver and others for 1900s and Piendibene and others for 1910s) 1900—1909 (1 + 2 + 3 + 5): W. Fulk (England) - B. Crompton (England), D. Carr (England) - B. Meredith (Wales), J. De Corver (Holland), O. .Kipp (Germany) - J.Gandil (Denmark), S.Blumer (England), R.Hamilton (Scotland), D.Quinn (Scotland), D.Woodward (England); Coach W. Miley (Scotland) 1910-1919 (1 + 2 + 3 + 5): S.Hardy (England) - B. McCraken (Northern Ireland), A. Swartenbrooks (Belgium) - J. Brandstetter (Austria), J. Vanik (Czechoslovakia), K. .Gustafsson (Sweden) - L.Vangege (Belgium), A.Oaco (Argentina), H.Piendibene (Uruguay), R.Moreno Aransadi (Spain), I.Slosser (Hungary); Coach D. Madden (Czechoslovakia) 1920—1929 (1 + 2 + 3 + 5): R. Zamora (Spain) - K. Pesek-Kadia (Czechoslovakia), H. Nazatzi (Uruguay) - H. Andrade (Uruguay), C. Buchan (England) ), W. Cook (Poland) - A. Jackson (Scotland), E. Skarone (Uruguay), H. Gallagher (Scotland), A. Friedenreich (Brazil), A.Morton (Scotland); trainer E. Figoli (Uruguay) 1930—1939 (1 + 2 + 3 + 5): F. Planichka (Czechoslovakia) - D. Da Gia (Brazil), P. Jans (Germany) - A. James (England), L. Monti (Italy), A. .Sastre (Argentina) - D.Meazza (Italy), Leonidas (Brazil), S.Piola (Italy), M.Sindellar (Austria), R.Orsi (Argentina); trainer V. Pozzo (Italy) 1940–1949 (1 + 3 + 2 + 5): S. Livingston (Chile) - H. Solomon (Argentina), E. Nilsson (Sweden), D. Kerry (Ireland) - L. Benbarek (Morocco), V. Mazzola (Italy) - S. Mathews (England), H.M.Moreno (Argentina), T.Zarra (Spain), Ademir (Brazil), J.Bitsan (Czechoslovakia); trainer G. Stabile (Argentina) 1950-1959 (1 + 3 + 2 + 5): A.Carriso (Argentina) - D. Santos (Brazil), H. Santamaria (Uruguay), N. Santos (Brazil) - Didi (Brazil), R.Copa (1950) France) - Garrincha (Brazil), F. Walter (Germany), A. Di Stefano (Spain), HA Schiaffino (Uruguay), F. Pushkash (Hungary); trainer Z. Gerberger (Germany) 1960-1969 (1 + 4 + 3 + 3): L. Yashin (USSR) - T. Burnić (Italy), B. Moore (England), B. McNill (Scotland), and D. Fakketti (Italy). Charlton (England), L. Suarez Miramontes (Spain), D. Rivera (Italy) - Pele (Brazil), Eusebio (Portugal), D. Best (Northern Ireland); coach A.Remsey (England) 1970-1979 (1 + 4 + 3 + 3): D.Zoff (Italy) - C.Alberto (Brazil), E.Figueroa (Chile), F.Beckenbauer (Germany), P.Britner (Germany) - T. Kubilias (Peru), J. Neskens (Holland), V.Kolotov (USSR) - J.Croiff (Netherlands), G.Muller (Germany), O.Blohin (USSR); trainer R. Michaels (Netherlands) 1980-1989 (1 + 4 + 4 + 2): R.Dasayev (USSR) - M.Amoros (France), O.Ruggeri (Argentina), R.Kuman (Netherlands), A.Demyanenko (USSR) - Zico (Brazil), L. Mattheus (Germany), M. Platini (France), D. Maradona (Argentina) - M. van Basten (Holland), R. Gullit (Holland); Coach V. Lobanovsky (USSR) 1990-1999 (1 + 4 + 3 + 3): P. Schmeichel (Denmark) - L.Turam (France), F.Baresi (Italy), M.Sammer (Germany), B.Lisaarazy (France) - D. Beckham (England), M. Laudrup (Denmark), R. Giggs (Wales) - Ronaldo (Brazil), Romario (Brazil), R.Baggio (Italy); trainer E. Jacquet (France) 2000-2009 (1 + 4 + 4 + 2): D. Buffon (Italy) - Cafu (Brazil), F. Cannavaro (Italy), P. Maldini (Italy), R. Carlos (Brazil) - P. Nedved ( Czech Republic), L. Figu (Portugal), Z. Zidane (France), Ronaldinho (Brazil) - A. Shevchenko (Ukraine), T. Henri (France); Coach A. Ferguson (Scotland) 2010—2017 (1 + 3 + 3 + 4): M. Neuer (Germany) - D.Alves (Brazil), S.Ramos (Spain), Marcelo (Brazil) - A.Iniesta (Spain), Xavi (Spain) , L.Modric (Croatia) - L.Messy (Argentina), R.Levandowski (Poland), K.Ralnudu (Portugal), Neymar (Brazil); trainer H. Guardiola (Spain)
To be honest, I think over the 1940's Livingstone clearly surpasses Máspoli, not only because the way they fits in the period, but also based on their performance peaks (the Chilean was probably the first great star of such high relevance of his country before Enrique Hormazábal, Leonel Sánchez and Elías Figueroa and the leading figure of Chile in the Copas América (1941, 1942, 1945, 1947, 1949)). Even only about Uruguayans, it seems to me that is debatable that Máspoli was the best goalkeeper considering Aníbal Paz, who I think wins the hand during the first half in a more imposing way that at the end of the decade it was reversed. I'd notice Peruvian José Soriano and the Argentine Claudio Vacca on a similar level.
Yeah, I'd noticed Livingstone was apparently even deemed Player of the Tournament in the 1941 Copa America I think wasn't he? It's difficult when there is scarce footage and sparse information to go on, when looking so far back in history, and it's tricky to decide for example whether I should just defer to you when I think you may have better insight into a decision than me (because the alternative might seem like ignoring the better perspective). Maspoli does have a starring role in an even bigger tournament, and specifically the final match, that goes in his favour I guess, as alluded to here (several good saves vs Brazil in the 1950 WC Final): https://www.theguardian.com/news/2004/feb/25/guardianobituaries.football The IFFHS vote in 1999 shouldn't be taken as determining things I know, but in the South American vote (among South Americans) he did finish a little bit ahead of Livingstone, with both getting a fairly significant amount of points and placing quite high up: http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/iffhs-century.html#worldkoc It might be I stick with the Maspoli choice myself, but I wouldn't feel I had a strong opinion about it or anything if I do. Similarly, for me in the difficult 1960-1970 period (for choosing a second goalkeeper once I'd decided Banks goes in that period as first choice), I may be also generous to another Uruguayan Mazurkiewicz in the end as in effect I'm including him rather than Jennings who was born in the same year who I somehow felt was more a 1965-1975 candidate (both of them had more to show from the 60s and 1970 than Ramallets did from the 40s and 1950 I'm sure though - it was good that you prompted me on Ramallets to be honest). Interestingly in the worldwide voting in that IFFHS election those two (Jennings and Mazurkiewicz) did end up very close I noticed too.
I must mention how curious it is for me the high consideration José Leandro Andrade usually has. I mean, I agree that he must have been one of the very best/most famous of his time, but to be the usually first named of that Uruguayan generation now I think (here I speculate) it has to do with how the information about him has been conserved and retransmitted from the fame he reached in Europe, not only for his performances in the Olympic Games of Paris in 1924, but also for his peculiar lifestyle being a black person (I hope it is well written in English), which made him a very picturesque character by then in contrast to European society. I have the strong impression by contemporary sources that who was considered the top star of the Uruguayan football in those years was Héctor Scarone, at least a quarter of a step ahead, even considered an early star since he was a teenager in the late 1910's, but his fame seems to have trascended a little less. By the way, I never saw anyone highlighting Vaclav Kuhar. I even suspected that maybe there is an error and they wanted to mention Václav Pilát or Vilmos Kohut.
I only just found it now, but this seems to be him - Waclaw Kuchar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wacław_Kuchar
Yes, apparently for the most of the press. Oh, well, that detail probably makes a difference. In the periods I set the 1940's (1940-1949) would not take into account the 1950 World Cup. Yes, it is correct. In my opinion, I think he got such an advantage due to how the most remember and/or know much more about the World Cups than anything else, the role of Máspoli in 1950 and having been part of a historic landmark, "El Maracanazo", while Livingstone established his domain in a period without World Cups (the history of the Copas América are not so well known even to South Americans) and having played almost always in Chile, which establishes certain doubts in a popular retrospective analysis. Obviously, there is also an implicity popularity issue (notorious for Higuita's position, hehehe). Based on my own seasonal perspective I think Livingstone could also beat Máspoli in general (without time parameters) about South American goalkeepers (or, at least, they would be on a similar scale), even though his world popularity is lower now: - Ubaldo Fillol - Amadeo Carrizo - Ladislao Mazurkiewicz - Gilmar - José Luis Chilavert - Sergio Livingstone - Roque Máspoli - Hugo Gatti - Américo Tesoriere
Who has made this? Is there a method? Some of the ordering is really unusual like Blokhin above Muller, Klinsmann above Baresi (Henry below Roberto Carlos), Francescoli above MvB.
I found this link on Wikipedia for the Berlin-Britz transmitter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin-Britz_transmitter Maybe Gregoriak can add some info. It didn't seem clear what the methodology was said to be or who voted. Maybe it was a long-term series of radio discussions (just a guess though)? Yeah, it ca seem like it was even made by Ukrainians maybe haha (Blokhin ahead of German Muller, a relatively lesser known player in the 70s team, Shevchenko 5 places above Henry) but in other places (Matthaus over Van Basten/Gullit for example) I guess it does seem more likely German...and I assume it is unless it was a Europe-wide collaboration organised by the Radio station or something. I'd have thought if ex-players were involved that would have been stated. I suppose there will always be interesting or surprising calls in any attempt, that veer away from the norm a bit. Blokhin's placement in my own idea might even be deemed to go the other way, although for the 75-85 line-up I did I did resist the idea of Simonsen/Robertson and went what I assume would be more mainstream (and fitting a flexible 4-3-3 too, plus suiting the period overall - allowing for ups and downs in form of course) in putting Boniek and Blokhin at 'left wing' in the first and reserve selections. I'm actually more a fan of Shevchenko than Henry I'd say, but still I'd tend to place the Frenchman ahead I think. There probably was a time (in real time) where that was considered a debateable one though, with Serie A still having the higher reputation than the PL at the time in essence (while obviously going back further into the 90s it would/should go more in Shevchenko's favour too but that's not so relevant I guess). This video was one of the first I watched when /expanding my interest in al-time greats etc, and does include both Shevchenko and Blokhin in the top 30 (nice video entertainment wise I always thought - with all the 3 parts combined, and done by a Spaniard not a Ukrainian - I think you're aware of it Puck via me before maybe anyway but you'll like the choice for number 1 of course!):
Hard to be sure I guess whether they are looking at it on an even/fair basis when it comes to say Xavi vs Modric, or feeling they should factor in the contributions over the whole decade to try for literally the best players over the decade (though as you say Xavi still makes it in the XI but they might feel he really should do over other candidates with less of a stellar peak period...in the decade as well as overall).
Finalising my overlapping selections into one post now: (Three final changes after re-consideration being slotting Sosa into 1940-1950 and Sneijder into 2005-2015 reserves even though in terms of the system it is stretching things a little bit in both cases I think...but still just about reasonable and leaving 1940-1950 as it was was probably not ideal either - basically I'm using more of a WM and the Argentines played in a different system I think, plus going with De Bruyne to make effectively more of a 4-3-3 again in the 2010-2020 team) 1925-1935 Zamora (Combi); Nasazzi (Rosetta), Quincoces (Meiklejohn); J.Andrade (Samitier), Smistik (Van Heel), Nausch (Gestido); Puc (Jackson), Scarone (James), Braine (Dean), Sindelar (Schall), Orsi (Morton) 1st XI: Austria x 3, Uruguay x 3, Spain x 2, Argentina x 1, Belgium x 1, Czechoslovakia x 1 2nd XI: Scotland x 4, Italy x 2, Austria x 1, England x 1, Netherlands x 1, Spain x 1, Uruguay x 1 1930-1940 Planicka (Hiden); Minelli (Burgr), Hapgood (Sesta); Kostalek (Lazar), Sarosi (Szepan), Copping (Cilaurren); Guaita (Peucelle), Meazza (Leonidas), Piola (Binder), Nejedly (Ferrari), Bastin (Titkos) 1st XI: Czechoslovakia x 3, England x 3, Italy x 3, Hungary x 1, Switzerland x 1 2nd XI: Austria x 3, Hungary x 2, Argentina x 1, Brazil x 1, Czechoslovakia x 1, Germany x 1, Italy x 1, Spain x 1 1935-1945 Swift (Darui); Janes (Foni), Domingos Da Guia (Cullis), Biro (Rava); Sastre (Andreolo), Locatelli (Mercer); Zsengeller (Carter), Moreno (Doherty); Porta (Sas), Bican (Lawton), Garcia (Brustad) 1st XI: Argentina x 3, Hungary x 2, Brazil x 1, Czechoslovakia (incl. Bican) x 1, England x 1, Germany x 1, Italy x 1, Uruguay x 1 2nd XI: England x 4, Italy (incl. Andreolo) x 3, France x 1, Hungary x 1, Northern Ireland x 1, Norway x 1 1940-1950 Maspoli (Livingstone); Sosa (Carey), Parola (Franklin), Nilsson (Gambetta); Rossi (Alvim), Ben Barek (Loik); Zizinho (Walter), V. Mazzola (Pedernera); Tesourinha (Menti), Ademir (Mortensen), Loustau (Gainza) 1st XI: Argentina x 3, Brazil x 3, Italy x 2, France x 1, Sweden x 1, Uruguay x 1 2nd XI: England x 2, Italy x 2, Argentina x 1, Brazil x 1, Chile x 1, Germany x 1, Ireland x 1, Spain x 1, Uruguay x 1 1945-1955 Grosics (Ramallets); V.Andrade (Stankovic), Jonquet (Liebrich), Hanappi (Marche); Bozsik (O.Varela), Happel (Ocwirk); Matthews (Ghiggia), Hidegkuti (Vukas), Finney (Praest); Kubala (Wilkes), Nordahl (Bobek) 1st XI: Hungary (incl. Kubala) x 4, Austria x 2, England x 2, France x 1, Sweden x 1, Uruguay x 1 2nd XI: Yugoslavia x 3, Uruguay x 2, Austria x 1, Denmark x 1, France x 1, Germany x 1, Netherlands x 1, Spain x 1 1950-1960 Beara (Carizzo); D.Santos (Buzanszky), Charles (Bellini), N.Santos (Lantos); Wright (Edwards), Liedholm (Zebec); Julinho (Boniperti), Di Stefano (Schiaffino), Czibor (Skoglund); Kocsis (Kopa), Puskas (Fontaine) 1st XI: Brazil x 3, Hungary x 3, Argentina (incl. Di Stefano) x 1, England x 1, Sweden x 1, Wales x 1, Yugoslavia x 1 2nd XI: France x 2, Hungary x 2, Argentina x 1, Brazil x 1, England x 1, Italy x 1, Sweden x 1, Uruguay x 1, Yugoslavia x 1 1955-1965 Yashin (Gilmar); Picchi (C.Maldini); Bergmark (Eyzaguirre), Santamaria (Popluhar), Jusufi (Wilson); Zito (Coluna); Didi (Blanchflower), Suarez (Masopust); Garrincha (Hamrin), Altafini (Seeler), Gento (Pepe) 1st XI: Brazil (incl. Altafini) x 4, Spain x 2, Italy x 1, Soviet Union x 1, Sweden x 1, Uruguay x 1, Yugoslavia x 1 2nd XI: Brazil x 2, Czechoslovakia x 2, Chile x 1, England x 1, Germany x 1, Italy x 1, Northern Ireland x 1, Portugal x 1, Sweden x 1 1960-1970 Banks (Mazurkiewicz); Shesternyov (Vasovic); Burgnich (Kaposzta), Moore (McNeill), Marzolini (Gemmell); Voronin (Trapattoni); Charlton (Albert), Pele (Rivera); Chislenko (Bene), Eusebio (Greaves), Moulijn (Corso) 1st XI: England x 3, Soviet Union x 3, Argentina x 1, Brazil x 1, Italy x 1, Netherlands x 1, Portugal x 1 2nd XI: Hungary x 3, Italy x 3, Scotland x 2, England x 1, Uruguay x 1, Yugoslavia x 1 1965-1975 Zoff (Maier); Beckenbauer (Chumpitaz); Carlos Alberto (Vogts), Figueroa (Israel), Facchetti (Cooper); Pirri (Clodoaldo); Deyna (Netzer), Cruyff (Rivelino); Jairzinho (Johnstone), Muller (Lubanski), Best (Dzajic) 1st XI: Brazil x 2, Germany x 2, Italy x 2, Chile x 1, Netherlands x 1, Northern Ireland x 1, Poland x 1, Spain x 1 2nd XI: Germany x 3, Brazil x 2, England x 1, Netherlands x 1, Peru x 1, Poland x 1, Scotland x 1, Yugoslavia x 1 1970-1980 Viktor (Hellstrom); Krol (Ondrus); Suurbier (Nelinho), Tresor (Zmuda), Marinho Chagas (Hovenkamp); Neeskens (Gemmill); Keegan (Bochini), Cubillas (Cueto); Lato (Rep), Kempes (Bettega), Rensenbrink (Causio) 1st XI: Netherlands x 4, Argentina x 1, Brazil x 1, Czechoslovakia x 1, England x 1, France x 1, Peru x 1, Poland x 1 2nd XI: Italy x 2, Netherlands x 2, Argentina x 1, Brazil x 1, Czechoslovakia x 1, Peru x 1, Poland x 1, Scotland x 1, Sweden x 1 1975-1985 Shilton (Fillol); Kaltz (Battiston), Scirea (Forster), Passarella (Hansen), Breitner (Bossis); Tardelli (Ardiles); Platini (Falcao), Zico (Socrates); Rummenigge (Rocheteau), Dalglish (Rossi), Boniek (Blokhin) 1st XI: Germany x 3, Italy x 2, Argentina x 1, Brazil x 1, England x 1, France x 1, Poland x 1, Scotland x 1 2nd XI: France x 3, Argentina x 2, Brazil x 2, Germany x 1, Italy x 1, Scotland x 1, Soviet Union x 1 1980-1990 Dasaev (Southall); Amoros (Leandro), Vierchowod (Ruggeri), Baresi (Bratseth), Cabrini (Junior); Tigana (Lerby); Matthaus (Hoddle), Giresse (Robson); Littbarski (Conti), Elkjaer (Careca), Maradona (Ceulemans) 1st XI: France x 3, Italy x 3, Germany x 2, Argentina x 1, Denmark x 1, Soviet Union x 1 2nd XI: Brazil x 3, England x 2, Argentina x 1, Belgium x 1, Denmark x 1, Italy x 1, Norway x 1, Wales x 1 1985-1995 Preud'homme (Zubizarreta); Jorginho (Bergomi), McGrath (Kohler), R.Koeman (Belodedici), Maldini (Brehme); Rijkaard (Sammer); Stojkovic (Hassler), Hagi (Scifo), M.Laudrup (Donadoni); Gullit (Francescoli), Van Basten (Klinsmann) 1st XI: Netherlands x 4, Belgium x 1, Brazil x 1, Denmark x 1, Ireland x 1, Italy x 1, Romania x 1, Yugoslavia x 1 2nd XI: Germany x 5, Italy x 2, Belgium x 1, Romania x 1, Spain x 1, Uruguay x 1 1990-2000 Schmeichel (Seaman); Petrescu (Angloma), Blanc (Costacurta), Desailly (Aldair), Lizarazu (Jarni); Redondo (Davids); B.Laudrup (Savicevic), Gascoigne (Litmanen), Giggs (Ginola); Romario (Weah), R.Baggio (Bergkamp) 1st XI: France x 3, Denmark x 2, Argentina x 1, Brazil x 1, England x 1, Italy x 1, Romania x 1, Wales x 1 2nd XI: France x 2, Netherlands x 2, Yugoslavia x 2, Brazil x 1, England x 1, Finland x 1, Italy x 1, Liberia x 1 1995-2005 Kahn (Toldo); Cafu (Zanetti), Thuram (Hierro), Cannavaro (Campbell), Roberto Carlos (Candela); Keane (Makelele), Vieira (Hamann); Figo (Beckham), Zidane (Rui Costa), Raul (Nedved); Ronaldo (Shevchenko) 1st XI: Brazil x 3, France x 3, Germany x 1, Ireland x 1, Italy x 1, Portugal x 1, Spain x 1 2nd XI: England x 2, France x 2, Argentina x 1, Czech Republic x 1, Germany x 1, Italy x 1, Portugal x 1, Spain x 1, Ukraine x 1 2000-2010 Buffon (Van der Sar); Maicon (Salgado), Nesta (Ferdinand), Carvalho (Lucio), Zambrotta (Cole); Gerrard (Baraja), Cambiasso (Lampard); Pires (Ljungberg), Totti (Kaka), Ronaldinho (Seedorf); Henry (Van Nistelrooy) 1st XI: Italy x 4, Brazil x 2, France x 2, Argentina, 1, England x 1, Portugal x 1 2nd XI: England x 3, Netherlands x 3, Brazil x 2, Spain x 2, Sweden x 1 2005-2015 Cech (Casillas); Zabaleta (Ferreira), Ramos (K.Toure), Pique (T.Silva), Lahm (Abidal); Xavi (Y.Toure), Alonso (Pirlo); Messi (Robben), Iniesta (Sneijder), C.Ronaldo (Ribery); Eto'o (Ibrahimovic) 1st XI: Spain x 5, Argentina x 2, Cameroon x 1, Czech Republic x 1, Germany x 1, Portugal x 1 2nd XI: France x 2, Ivory Coast x 2, Netherlands x 2, Brazil x 1, Italy x 1, Portugal x 1, Spain x 1, Sweden x 1 2010-2020 Neuer (De Gea); Alves (Trippier), Varane (Hummels), Van Dijk (Godin), Marcelo (Alba); Busquets (Kante), Modric (Pogba); Hazard (Salah), De Bruyne (Ozil), Neymar (Mane); Lewandowski (Suarez) 1st XI: Brazil x 3, Belgium x 2, Croatia x 1, France x 1, Germany x 1, Netherlands x 1, Poland x 1, Spain x 1 2nd XI: France x 2, Germany x 2, Spain x 2, Uruguay x 2, Egypt x 1, England x 1, Senegal x 1
That can be my final version, but here are a couple of clarifications! Re: Lazar, I should add that on top of the Hungarian Player of the Year award, there are a few more things to back up the idea he had a high class (nevertheless I think it's difficult to really get a good idea about the qualities he had): Peterhrt had posted a first and reserve selection by the Hungarian football federation here: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/all-time-xis-by-country.2073245/page-3#post-36041492 "This was the team chosen by the Hungarian Football Federation in 2013: -----------Grosics---------- Rudas - Meszoly - Biro -------Boszik - Orth------- Sandor - Albert - Czibor ------Kocsis - Puskas---- Their Second Team: --------------Platko---------- Matrai - Lorant - Laszlo Sarosi ------Nagymarosi - Lazar------- Fazekas - Hidegkuti- Kohut -------Kubala - Schlosser------- Gyorgy Sarosi was in the third team as he was only considered as a centre-forward. " And I've posted before a top 50 all-time Hungarian player listing, as voted for by 'Hungarian experts' a few years ago (the original online source might not be available now I think), as per here: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/1989-2014-fantasy-world-club-cup.2012816/page-3#post-31359516 "1. Puskás Ferenc 950 2. Bozsik József 904 3. Hidegkuti Nándor 859 4. Albert Flórián 848 5. Orth György 800 6. Kocsis Sándor 790 7. Kubala László 742 8. Sárosi György 736 9. Schlosser Imre 702 10. Zsengellér Gyula 642 11. Szusza Ferenc 633 12. Bene Ferenc 610 13. Nyilasi Tibor 593 14. Grosics Gyula 533 15. Czibor Zoltán 521 16. Lázár Gyula 520 17. Göröcs János 515 18. Détári Lajos 500 19. Deák Ferenc 483 20. Sándor Károly 467 21. Törőcsik András 453 22. Mészöly Kálmán 447 23. Farkas János 446 24. Tichy Lajos 433 25. Fazekas László 414 26. Varga Zoltán 378 27. Schaffer Alfréd 377 27. Toldi Géza 377 29. Sipos Ferenc 364 30. Mátrai Sándor 291 31. Bölöni László 284 32. Buzánszky Jenő 278 33. Titkos Pál 256 34. Nagymarosi Mihály 254 35. Zsák Károly 224 36. Kocsis Lajos 218 37. Lóránt Gyula 176 38. Cseh László 170 39. Takács József 166 40. Novák Dezső 156 41. Rudas Ferenc 153 42. Machos Ferenc 152 43. Fenyvesi Máté dr. 150 44. Bodola Gyula 140 45. Kovács Imre 137 46. Nyers István 133 47. Fogl Károly 125 48. Lantos Mihály 124 49. Budai László 121 50. Dunai Antal 119 Plus in the 1937 game between a 'Western Europe' team and a 'Central Europe' team he featured for the latter: www.rsssf.com/tablesn/nedolydag.html#37 "Aldo Olivieri (Italy); Willibald Schmaus (Austria) [36 Pietro Rava (Italy)], Karl Sesta (Austria); Gyula Lázár (Hungary), Michele Andreolo (Italy), Pietro Serantoni (Italy); Oldřich Nejedlý (Czechoslovakia), György Sárosi (Hungary), Silvio Piola (Italy), Giuseppe Meazza (Italy), Ferenc Sas (Hungary)" I don't really have any confidence in switching him and Kostalek between first team and reserve team though, and like I said I'm still uncertain in general about that first decade. The other thing is that I would wonder potentially for the 1925-1935 selection about putting Orsi on the right and Puc on the left. As with a number of the selections the two wingers could switch around a bit in theory during a game (eg even Hassler and Donadoni who I had in the 4-1-3-2 system for 1985-1995 reserves), if they had been real line-ups I'm sure, but I wouldn't rule out it being the better option to have Orsi on the right and Puc on the left. My impression is that they'd be the two prime options I think anyway, with Orsi seemingly the top winger of the time (which could make it the better call to put him on his best side, but then again he could be the more versatile).
A summary by country of the Berlin-Britz Radio Top 10 By Decade selections 1920s to 2010s. 100 players in total. Names in brackets are omissions who did not appear in their teams of the decade either, but who might be expected to feature in some Top 100 lists. One omission per country maximum is shown. 12 - Brazil (Zizinho) 10 - Italy (Pirlo) 8 - Argentina (Passarella), Germany (Maier) 6 - England (Banks), France ( Desailly), Spain (Gento) 5 - Netherlands (Robben), Uruguay (Varela) 4 - Former USSR (Netto) 3 - Austria (Ocwirk), Former Czechoslovakia (Masopust), Hungary (Kocsis), Poland (Boniek), Portugal (Coluna) 2 - Denmark (Simonsen), Scotland (Dalglish), Sweden (Liedholm) 1 - Bulgaria, Cameroon, Ecuador, Chile (Vidal), Mexico, Northern Ireland, Paraguay (Chilavert), Peru (Chumpitaz), Former Yugoslavia (Dzajic) Countries not represented in either Top 10s or teams include Belgium, Colombia and Liberia. Of the 100 names listed, ten are goalkeepers. There is one keeper in each decade, except for the 1920s when there are two, and the 1940s when there are none. Only nine defenders are present. 30 players are from Latin America, 1 from Africa, and the remaining 69 from Europe.
Trying top 10s for each period according to my own estimations (obviously very difficult to gauge for the earliest periods, and also of course arguable for later ones). I think with the players all going in suitable periods it makes it more reasonable even to look mainly at peak, just factoring in consistency and length of peak a bit I guess (but some players with shorter initial peaks go on to have a second peak arguably nearly as good or slightly better anyway, and they can be in the same period obviously or bordering on just outside). Also, some players would get in more than one period if I was doing it that way (just as with the XIs - ranging from Stanley Matthews most probably in 1935-1945 onwards, through others like Cruyff etc) 25-35 - 1 Sindelar, 2 Andrade, 3 Zamora, 4 Scarone, 5 Nasazzi, 6 Braine, 7 Orsi, 8 James, 9 Dean, 10 Puc 30-40 - 1 Meazza, 2 Sarosi, 3 Piola, 4 Leonidas, 5 Nejedly, 6 Planicka, 7 Bastin, 8 Binder, 9 Hapgood, 10 Guaita 35-45 - 1 Moreno, 2 Bican, 3 Lawton, 4 Sastre, 5 Domingos Da Guia, 6 Erico, 7 Garcia, 8 Zsengeller, 9 Carter, 10 Doherty 40-50 - 1 Zizinho, 2 V.Mazzola, 3 Ademir, 4 Walter, 5 Pedernera, 6 Mortensen, 7 Gren, 8 Sosa, 9 Loustau, 10 Mannion 45-55 - 1 Finney, 2 Matthews, 3 Hidegkuti, 4 Kubala, 5 Bozsik, 6 Nordahl, 7 Ocwirk, 8 Varela, 9 Wilkes, 10 Grosics 50-60 - 1 Di Stefano, 2 Puskas, 3 Schiaffino, 4 Kopa, 5 Fontaine, 6 Edwards, 7 Liedholm, 8 Charles, 9 Kocsis, 10 Julinho 55-65 - 1 Yashin, 2 Garrincha, 3 Didi, 4 Suarez, 5 Masopust, 6 Hamrin, 7 Gento, 8 Zito, 9 Coluna, 10 Altafini 60-70 - 1 Pele, 2 Eusebio, 3 Charlton, 4 Moore, 5 Rivera, 6 Banks, 7 Greaves, 8 Law, 9 Albert, 10 Gerson 65-75 - 1 Cruyff, 2 Beckenbauer, 3 Best, 4 Muller, 5 Dzajic, 6 Jairzinho, 7 Carlos Alberto, 8 Rivelino, 9 Deyna, 10 Figueroa 70-80 - 1 Neeskens, 2 Kempes, 3 Krol, 4 Rensenbrink, 5 Cubillas, 6 Keegan, 7 Lato, 8 Rep, 9 Bochini, 10 Gemmill 75-85 - 1 Platini, 2 Zico, 3 Dalglish, 4 Rummenigge, 5 Socrates, 6 Scirea, 7 Falcao, 8 Robertson, 9 Breitner, 10 Shilton 80-90 - 1 Maradona, 2 Baresi, 3 Matthaus, 4 Hoddle, 5 Tigana, 6 Ceulemans, 7 Littbarski, 8 Elkjaer, 9 Careca, 10 Dasaev 85-95 - 1 Van Basten, 2 M.Laudrup, 3 Gullit, 4 Hagi, 5 Maldini, 6 Rijkaard, 7 Klinsmann, 8 Lineker, 9 Scifo, 10 Stojkovic 90-00 - 1 R.Baggio, 2 Bergkamp, 3 Savicevic, 4 Romario, 5 Weah, 6 Schmeichel, 7 Redondo, 8 B.Laudrup, 9 Batistuta, 10 Giggs 95-05 - 1 Zidane, 2 Ronaldo, 3 Figo, 4 Shevchenko, 5 Cafu, 6 Raul, 7 Nedved, 8 Vieira, 9 Beckham, 10 Rui Costa 00-10 - 1 Ronaldinho, 2 Henry, 3 Totti, 4 Kaka, 5 Pires, 6 Buffon, 7 Nesta, 8 Van Nistelrooy, 9 Seedorf, 10 Gerrard 05-15 - 1 Messi, 2 C.Ronaldo, 3 Xavi, 4 Iniesta, 5 Robben, 6 Eto'o, 7 Pirlo, 8 Sneijder, 9 Ibraimovic, 10 Lahm 10-20 - 1 Neymar, 2 Hazard, 3 Suarez, 4 Modric, 5 De Bruyne, 6 Lewandowski, 7 Alves, 8 Van Dijk, 9 Busquets, 10 Ozil
I thought it might be interesting to add the clubs too: half a point if splitting between two (based on combination of players level at the clubs and amount of time spent there), and trying not to split between more than that even if that's a bit harsh on some clubs. Adding within the quote of my original post, in bold: To be continued for the other years....
And the next 6 (to leave the final 6 in the next post when I make it): I felt I couldn't split the teams for Greaves or Krol given the periods concerned, but arguably on a career basis Chelsea and Napoli would get half a point, to recognise the level of the players at those clubs. Hard calls on Rep, and tough on Udinese re: Zico but felt Flamengo getting a full point represents things best, when thinking about both peak and duration of time there (even though I had a quite similar decision for Rummenigge and included 2 clubs, and likewise even Dalglish!)
I feel I'd be satisfied that those top 10s I did were close enough to reflecting my own perceptions in combination with general acclaim. I'm copying and pasting and adding positions in bold now too finally: 25-35 - 1 Sindelar (Centre forward/False 9), 2 Andrade (Wing half), 3 Zamora (Goalkeeper), 4 Scarone (Inside forward), 5 Nasazzi (Right full back/sweeper), 6 Braine (Centre forward, utility player), 7 Orsi (Left winger), 8 James (Inside forward/Attacking midfielder), 9 Dean (Centre forward/Striker), 10 Puc (Inside left, left winger) 30-40 - 1 Meazza (Centre forward, inside forward), 2 Sarosi (Centre forward, centre half), 3 Piola (Centre forward/Striker, versatile in forward positions), 4 Leonidas (Inside forward, Centre forward/Striker), 5 Nejedly (Inside forward), 6 Planicka (Goalkeeper), 7 Bastin (Left wing forward), 8 Binder (Centre forward/Striker), 9 Hapgood (Left back), 10 Guaita (Winger, Striker) 35-45 - 1 Moreno (Inside forward), 2 Bican (Centre forward, inside forward), 3 Lawton (Centre forward/Striker), 4 Sastre (Inside forward, attacking wing half), 5 Domingos Da Guia (Right full back/Sweeper), 6 Erico (Centre forward), 7 Garcia ((Left winger), 8 Zsengeller (Inside forward), 9 Carter (Inside forward), 10 Doherty (Inside left) 40-50 - 1 Zizinho (Inside forward, Midfielder), 2 V.Mazzola (Inside forward, Attacking midfielder), 3 Ademir (Centre forward, Left wing), 4 Walter (Inside forward), 5 Pedernera (Centre forward/False 9, inside forward, left wing), 6 Mortensen (Inside forward, Centre forward/Striker), 7 Gren (Inside forward), 8 Sosa (Right back/Wing half), 9 Loustau (Left winger), 10 Mannion (Inside forward) 45-55 - 1 Finney (Winger), 2 Matthews (Right winger), 3 Hidegkuti (Deep-lying centre forward, inside forward), 4 Kubala (Inside forward, Right winger), 5 Bozsik (Right half/Deep-lying playmaker), 6 Nordahl (Centre forward/Striker), 7 Ocwirk (Creative centre-half, wing half), 8 Varela (Centre half/Defensive midfielder), 9 Wilkes (Inside forward), 10 Grosics (Goalkeeper) 50-60 - 1 Di Stefano (Centre forward/Attacking Midfielder), 2 Puskas (Inside left, centre forward), 3 Schiaffino (Inside forward), 4 Kopa (Deep-lying centre-forward, Right winger), 5 Fontaine (Inside/centre forward), 6 Edwards (Wing half - defensive or attacking), 7 Liedholm (Inside left, Wing half), 8 Charles (Centre forward/Striker, Centre half/Centre Back), 9 Kocsis (Inside right - striker/forward), 10 Julinho (Right winger) I'll take a break there, and can come back to do the others although they are more modern anyway.
Yeah, so these would be less educational & informative for readers of the thread I guess, but I'll continue for the purposes of completeness and so we can all see, including me, what the balance was between various positions and roles in the collection of players I chose in my selection for top 10s (not that I will change it to make it more balanced I don't think!).... 55-65 - 1 Yashin (Goakeeper), 2 Garrincha (Right winger), 3 Didi (Central midfielder, inside forward), 4 Suarez (Inside forward, central midfielder), 5 Masopust (Creative left wing half, central midfielder), 6 Hamrin (Right winger), 7 Gento (Left winger), 8 Zito (Defensive/central midfielder, wing half), 9 Coluna (Midfielder - from attacking to deeper), 10 Altafini (Centre forward/Striker) 60-70 - 1 Pele (Inside forward/support striker), 2 Eusebio (Inside forward/Striker), 3 Charlton (Attacking midfielder, central midfielder, left winger), 4 Moore (Supporting centre back/defensive wing-half), 5 Rivera (Inside forward, attacking midfielder), 6 Banks (Goalkeeper), 7 Greaves (Inside forward/Striker), 8 Law (Inside forward/support striker, Centre forward/Striker), 9 Albert (Deep-lying centre forward, inside forward), 10 Gerson (Attacking/central midfielder) 65-75 - 1 Cruyff (Centre forward/False 9, inside forward, attacking midfielder), 2 Beckenbauer (Libero, Central midfielder), 3 Best (Winger, attacking midfielder, support forward), 4 Muller (Striker), 5 Dzajic (Left winger), 6 Jairzinho (Right winger, support striker), 7 Carlos Alberto (Right back, libero), 8 Rivelino (Attacking midfielder, left midfielder), 9 Deyna (Attacking/Central midfielder), 10 Figueroa (Centre back, sweeper) 70-80 - 1 Neeskens (Central midfielder), 2 Kempes (Striker, support striker, attacking midfielder), 3 Krol (Libero, left back), 4 Rensenbrink (Left wing forward, support striker), 5 Cubillas (Attacking midfielder/support striker), 6 Keegan (Support striker, attacking midfielder), 7 Lato (Right winger), 8 Rep (Right wing forward, support striker), 9 Bochini (Attacking midfielder), 10 Gemmill (Central midfielder) 75-85 - 1 Platini (Attacking/central midfielder), 2 Zico (Attacking midfielder/support striker), 3 Dalglish (Support striker), 4 Rummenigge (Wing forward, support striker), 5 Socrates (Attacking/central midfielder), 6 Scirea (Libero, centre back), 7 Falcao (Central/attacking midfielder), 8 Robertson (Left winger), 9 Breitner (Central midfielder, left back), 10 Shilton (Goalkeeper)
80-90 - 1 Maradona (Attacking midfielder, support striker, wing forward), 2 Baresi (Centre back, libero), 3 Matthaus (Central midfielder, attacking midfielder), 4 Hoddle (Central midfielder, attacking midfielder, right midfielder), 5 Tigana (Midfielder), 6 Ceulemans (Wing forward, attacking midfielder), 7 Littbarski (Wing forward, support forward, attacking midfielder), 8 Elkjaer (Striker), 9 Careca (Striker), 10 Dasaev (Goalkeeper) 85-95 - 1 Van Basten (Striker), 2 M.Laudrup (Support forward, attacking midfielder), 3 Gullit (Support forward, attacking midfielder, central midfielder, winger, libero), 4 Hagi (Attacking midfielder, support forward), 5 Maldini (Left back, centre back), 6 Rijkaard (Central midfielder, centre back, defensive midfielder), 7 Klinsmann (Striker), 8 Lineker (Striker), 9 Scifo (Attacking/central midfielder), 10 Stojkovic (Attacking/central/right midfielder) 90-00 - 1 R.Baggio (Trequartista, support striker), 2 Bergkamp (Support striker), 3 Savicevic (Support forward/attacking midfielder, winger), 4 Romario (Striker), 5 Weah (Striker), 6 Schmeichel (Goalkeeper), 7 Redondo (Central/defensive midfielder), 8 B.Laudrup (Winger, attacking midfielder, support striker), 9 Batistuta (Striker), 10 Giggs (Left winger) 95-05 - 1 Zidane (Attacking/central/left midfielder), 2 Ronaldo (Striker, support striker), 3 Figo (Winger, attacking midfielder), 4 Shevchenko (Striker), 5 Cafu (Right back/wing back), 6 Raul (Support striker, left wing forward/midfielder), 7 Nedved (Attacking midfielder, left midfielder), 8 Vieira (Central/defensive midfielder), 9 Beckham (Right/central midfielder), 10 Rui Costa (Attacking/central midfielder) 00-10 - 1 Ronaldinho (Left wing forward, support forward), 2 Henry (Roaming striker, left wing forward), 3 Totti (Trequartista, support striker), 4 Kaka (Attacking midfielder), 5 Pires (Winger), 6 Buffon (Goalkeeper), 7 Nesta (Centre back), 8 Van Nistelrooy (Striker), 9 Seedorf (Left/central/attacking midfielder), 10 Gerrard (Central midfielder, attacking midfielder) 05-15 - 1 Messi (False 9/Striker, Right wing forward/support forward, attacking midfielder), 2 C.Ronaldo (Wing forward, roaming forward, striker), 3 Xavi (Central midfielder, attacking midfielder), 4 Iniesta (Attacking/central midfielder, left wing midfielder/forward), 5 Robben (Winger/wing forward, support forward), 6 Eto'o (Striker, right wing forward), 7 Pirlo (Deep-lying playmaker, attacking/central midfielder), 8 Sneijder (Attacking midfielder, central midfielder), 9 Ibrahimovic (Striker/support striker), 10 Lahm (Right back, left back, central/defensive midfielder) 10-20 - 1 Neymar (Left wing forward, support forward), 2 Hazard (Left wing forward/midfielder, support forward/midfielder), 3 Suarez (Striker/support striker), 4 Modric (Central/attacking midfielder), 5 De Bruyne (Attacking midfielder), 6 Lewandowski (Striker), 7 Alves (Right back/wing back), 8 Van Dijk (Centre back), 9 Busquets (Defensive midfielder/deep-lying playmaker), 10 Ozil (Central/right attacking midfielder)