on Football to be fair with All the players The History of the Football .. In the intention to promote there the most purest divine justice of all Equality and impartiality possible . The ultimate goal of defensive players (CB...FRB..FLB... ANCHOR ... DEEP LYING PLAYMAKER ... BOX TO BOX PLAYER ... REGISTA .... FALSE LIBERO ...SWEEPER DEFENDER) and (DM...OH) defensive midfielders AND classical playmaking players like Overath ... Didi ... Clodoaldo Tavares (1970 ) is different THAN of more offensive and creative players and center forwardS... Deep Lying Forwards ... Tre-Quartistas .... Second Strikers or Attacking midfielders players ......The moment of the Goal for the defenders is not the Goal literally into the net for sure Why ??? mainly are : mainly because defenders operate the most of times per 90 minutes played in the first third of the field and sometimes reaching the final third a few times . The hierarchical order for defenders or the main duties for defenders for sure are : 1# technical Tackles Won per 90 minutes .. mainly Tackles won 1 vs 1 against the most Dangerous.. creative Strikers ... Tre-Quartistas players and intelligent... wiser ... positional and surprise Tackles 2# Headers Won Defending Set Pieces and Attacking Set Pieces .. 3# Duels Won 4# Defensive Covers to the team 5# Passing Accuracy Important secondary duties : Interceptions Wiser Positioning Stronger Personality vs Pure Strikers The hierarchical order for Strikers or the main duties for strikers for sure are : Strikers generally .. they operate most of the time in midfield.. close to the final third and often only in the final third for me : 1#Goals 1#Assists 1#Pre-Assists( type 1, (type 2 ( the last fourth player on the creation phase of the Goal ) 1#Key decisive Passes or Big chances created per 90 minutes ( through excellent assists and pre-assists) 1# Shots on Target Ratio higher per 90 minutes 1# Passing Accuracy 1# EndProduct Accuracy for me has the same importance for sure But of course that Goals .. Assists ... Pre-Assists ..Shots on Target ratio higher per 90 minutes .... showned a little more effectiveness than key incompleted passes at average . Important secondary duties : dribbles completed per 90 minutes and accuracy Shots Attempts frequency Crossing Attempts frequency dribbles completed per 90 minutes have their importance within the game...for opening up spaces that were previously locked. bringing many difficulties between the defensive lines creating good or great opportunities to make a final pass... an assist... a pre-assist... a key pass...big chances created or try a Shot on Target But for example then with a Shot Off the Target loses the importance . This is my vision about Football in general ! by Wiliam Phil Gracek The best HeadCoach of all times at Football Manager 2023 .
If we go just by ESM team of the year - as you do here - we can mention Robben (2005, 2010, 2015) made the ESM of the year more often than Henry, Ronaldo Nazario, Iniesta, Modric, Kroos. As often as Xavi and Ronaldinho. That are all on this ESPN list. De Bruyne with his five inclusions deserves an upward revision, then. Van Dijk has now 4 inclusions too and is only behind Pique (but with equal amount monthly selections). But you can always count on the ESPNs, Al Gabirus, @comme, Tanks, Cox to fall back into line and the default (ignore their even game notes; that's also a hurdle) and then apply a further downward bump. With Germany now the superior elite players in a low/lean year like 2004. Not hard to see what is driving that. Let those forces buy Sofascore, then they can do what they want. Freeze out Robben for 2005 and create a points based all-time list with no Oranje figure in the top 40 (or something like this, so far).
On the 2000s, again (and some selective use of sources below, but on top of earlier mentioned stuff that I'll not repeat here) The 2003 Ballon d'Or: both England and Netherlands had one player listed but the Oranje player was ahead. Fifa world player both had one in the top 10 (don't know the full list), Oranje player ahead. 2004 Ballon d'Or. Again both countries with one getting votes. The Oranje again comfortably ahead (if you exclude Rooney, okay). In the Fifa thing Oranje is ahead of the best English. The 2004 kicker survey among 250+ professionals had France, Czech Republic and Netherlands as the first three favorites. https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/bundesligaspelers-over-ailton-en-oranje Point is that this is the first hurdle and then decades later there is a second hurdle. Also true for e.g. Czech Republic. Let's put two/three native Chelsea players in the first XI instead (pre-Mourinho).
I've told you multiple times now. Stop tagging me into stuff with the inference that I and others have an agenda against the Netherlands that doesn't exist. Keep doing it and we'll move to infractions.
Thank you PuckVanHeel Not for talking about Van dijk again on a 2000s thread lol But thank you for pointing out the sheer hypocrisy on this forum They will fall back to the default That’s a given ESM was like one of the main sources posters used here to evaluate players What I mean here is their world class consistency over a season or over multiple seasons in fact several threads were created on this very sub section of the forum to force this point home The evidence is there https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/esm-team-of-the-month-the-complete-listing.2033633/ https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/reconstructing-the-esm-team-of-the-season.2131422/ https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/esm-team-of-the-month.1693535/ even threads were created to list the best players without ESM selections(baggio and the likes) https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/is-roberto-baggio-the-best-player-without-esm-honors.2069927/ If ESM wasn’t meaningful then why would somebody care if a player did or didn’t have them? Why would several educated posters here contribute towards it? Where the problem arises is what can they do with Xavi and his 2x amount of ESM selections as Luka Modric? what can they do with Robert lewandowski and his 4 more ESM selections as Ronaldo nazario? More selections overall and more inclusions in team of the year Lewandowski was a late bloomer compared to many other ATG level strikers This is extremely impressive to me but it will get overlooked. He was not a consistent machine by pure luck he put the work in where others simply didn’t https://amp.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...rn-munich-strikers-5-secrets-to-success-17975 We’ve seen the results world class longevity is always a positive and never a negative what can they do with Arjen Robben and him having more ESM seasonal inclusions as Rivaldo,Thierry Henry and Luis figo? even more scary when you realise Arjen Robben never played 30 games in a single league season after 2002/03 The majority of the time it was a lot less than that too https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjen_Robben what can they do? they can’t do anything except pretend that it doesn’t exist when you are blinded by bias you just follow whims and desires DBS calcio is the go to source when it suits them When it doesn’t it is ballon dor selections(winner positions,podium positions,top 5 positions,top 10 positions or seasons with votes) when that doesn’t help them then they might fall back onto the algorithm(those sites like WS and SF) They might they might create some totally arbitrary and pseudo scientifical method of determining how many goals/assists their preferred player would score in a totally different era Not before they discredit penalties and credit 2 yard assists Not before they discredit wide assists but credit set piece assists(Maradona had tonnes of the latter but let’s even go there) In complete desperation they will use quotes by ex professional players My preferred player has 8~great quotes (some times completely fictional quotes like the ones with Paul Scholes) Or ones taken completely out of it’s correct context(like the ones with Cruyff speaking on Romario) and guess what? your preferred player has only 4 nice quotes LOL or even worse Pelé/Cruyff/ADS/Maradona/Eusebio/George best/Micheal laudrup etc all agree on one thing https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/johan-cruyff-pays-cristiano-ronaldo-725552.amp Before he won even one ballon dor https://www.football-espana.net/2013/11/26/di-stefano-ronaldo-a-phenomenon/amp A universally renowned phenomenon calls you a phenomenon One that has literally seen it all live (everything from the 1930s to the early 2010s) Etc…….. vs the corporate controlled media and your contemporaries calling you a phenomenon Pelé and Zagalo were not totally convinced in 1997 “The Brazilian national coach, Mario Zagalo, believes Ronaldo should learn how to pass. ''The compliments he is receiving are not exaggerated,'' Pele said recently. ''I just think we need to make better comparisons.'' Ronaldo nazario is not a creative force in both halves of the field the way i and Maradona were. Instead, he is the consummate finisher, like the former Dutch star Van Basten. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/05/sports/a-brazilian-makes-it-big-in-barcelona.html but forget all of that and just take a look at this quote by the self destructive Antonio cassano https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...o-Ronaldo-not-five-greatest-players-time.html Those articulate enough,bothered enough,fearless enough and with more than enough football knowledge and experience also know just how to deal with this guy https://www.the-sun.com/sport/78323...ges-antonio-cassano-brutal-response-roma/amp/ Nothing better to hear than home truths(except for the recipient lol) They will latch onto anything like the guy stranded out in the middle of ocean that latches onto a wooden Log. desperation
- Os 25 melhores jogadores do SÉCULO 21 segundo a ESPN: 1. Lionel Messi 2. Cristiano Ronaldo 3. Thierry Henry 4. Zinedine Zidane 5. Luka Modric 6. Kylian Mbappé 7. Andres Iniesta 8. Xavi 9. Ronaldo Nazario 10. Ronaldinho 11. Zlatan Ibrahimovic 12. Kevin de Bruyne 13. Toni Kroos 14. Sergio Ramos 15. Carles Puyol 16. Karim Benzema 17. Sergio Busquets 18. Robert Lewandowski 19. Kaka 20. Neymar Jr 21. Andrea Pirlo 22. Wayne Rooney 23. Patrick Vieira 24. Luis Suárez 25. Gianluigi Buffon
é ´para tirar onda ...do 9. Ronaldo Nazario 10. Ronaldinho 19. Kaka 20. Neymar Jr Mas., apesar que realmente eu concordo com esta lista sim .. há médio Longo Prazo .... por Longevidade .. e honestamente colocaria Toni Kroos Kevin de Bruyne Patrick Vieira e talvez o Neymar Jr ... na frente do Ronaldinho Gaucho ... por Longevidade e numeros melhores também .. na média de ambos . !
for the last time mine about it : hahahahaha - Os 25 melhores jogadores do SÉCULO 21 segundo a ESPN: 1. Lionel Messi 2. Cristiano Ronaldo 3. Thierry Henry 4. Zinedine Zidane 5. Luka Modric 6. Kylian Mbappé 7. Andres Iniesta 8. Xavi 9. Ronaldo Nazario 10. Ronaldinho 11. Zlatan Ibrahimovic 12. Kevin de Bruyne 13. Toni Kroos 14. Sergio Ramos 15. Carles Puyol 16. Karim Benzema 17. Sergio Busquets 18. Robert Lewandowski 19. Kaka 20. Neymar Jr 21. Andrea Pirlo 22. Wayne Rooney 23. Patrick Vieira 24. Luis Suárez 25. Gianluigi Buffon
Pra ser justo, Kaká e R10 ganharam uma Champions como protagonistas enquanto Neymar ganhou carregado pelo Messi. KDB não foi o melhor jogador do city quando ganhou. Kroos não ganhou como protagonista mas ganhou 5 então eu coloco ele a frente. Além de ter ganhado copa do mundo embora também não como protagonista. Já referente ao vieira acho que não tem muitos argumentos pra ele ser maior nem que o Gilberto Silva
Patrick Vieira ... colocou o Kaká e o Ronaldinho Gaucho no bolso dele ... contra o Brasil em 2006 . ele fez o que quis naquela partida contra o Brasil . Patrick Vieira fez de Kaká e fez de Ronaldinho olharem como babies (bebes) jogando no meio de Gigantes verdadeiros do futebol Mundial Gigantes : Zinedine Zidane , Ronaldo Nazario mesmo gordão e lesionado jogou melhor do que o Kaká e o Ronaldinho na Copa do Mundo de 2006 e nesta partida também contra a França.. Claude Makelele .... Thierry Henry ... Thuram ...Sagnol ... Abidal ..Franck Ribery
Sim, cara. Mas estamos falando de um jogo/torneio. Todo mundo tem suas falhas, até o Pelé. Lembremos que o Ronaldinho destruiu o vieira na final da Champions de 2006. E o Makélélé no jogo contra o Chelsea. É só que a seleção de 2006 era extremamente talentosa mas taticamente era uma piada. O "quadrado mágico" não saiu do papel (pelo menos não como esperado) o time era bem melhor quando tava o Robinho
Patrick Vieira em 2006 estava na Juventus de Turin já ...depois foi pra Inter de Milão ; https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Vieira
Championnat d'Italie (5)note 2 Champion : 1996 avec le Milan AC, 2007, 2008, 2009 et 2010 avec l'Inter Milan Championnat d'Angleterre (3) Champion : 1998, 2002 et 2004 avec Arsenal Vice-champion : 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005 avec Arsenal
Coupe d'Angleterre (4) Vainqueur : 1998, 2002 et 2005 avec Arsenal, 2011 avec Manchester City Finaliste : 2001 avec Arsenal Community Shield (3) Vainqueur : 1998, 1999 et 2002 avec Arsenal Finaliste : 2003 avec Arsenal
Supercoupe d'Italie (1) Vainqueur : 2006 avec l'Inter Milan Finaliste : 2005 avec la Juventus, en 2007 et 2009 avec l'Inter Milan Coupe Gambardella (1) Vainqueur : 1995 avec l'AS Cannes
Coupe UEFA Finaliste : 2000 avec Arsenal Ligue des champions (1) Vainqueur : 2010 avec l'Inter Milan Coupe d’Italie Vainqueur : 2010 avec l'Inter Milan Finaliste : 2007 et 2008 avec l'Inter Milan
En sélection [modifier | modifier le code] Coupe du monde (1) Vainqueur : 1998 Finaliste : 2006 Championnat d'Europe (1) Vainqueur : 2000 Tournoi Hassan II (2) Vainqueur : 1998 et 2000 Coupe des confédérations (1) Vainqueur : 2001
Você está certo, eu tinha me esquecido que ele já tinha saído do Arsenal. De qualquer forma o R10 jogou muito contra o Arsenal nessa final e contra o Chelsea também. Claro que o Vieira é um excelente jogador, mas pra colocar ele a frente do R10 ele teria que pelo menos ser o melhor da posição dele e pra mim ele está atrás de ambos Casemiro e Busquets e agora até do Rodri eu diria
eu discordo de ti facilmente . por exemplo ... Ronaldo Nazario ele jogava no mesma posição do Ronaldinho Gaucho na Inter de Milão atrás do centroavante na epoca era Ivan Bambam Zamorano ... ou Kanu .... ele era um Tre-Quartista winger ... como o Ronaldinho era um Tre-Quartista winger ... atrás do centroavante ... na epoca era Samuel Eto'o ... Maxi Lopez ou Gudjohnsen Aonde que o Ronaldinho Gaucho foi melhor do que o Ronaldo Nazario carreira inteira de ambos não somente XXI century XXI ???? Aonde que o Gaucho é melhor que C. Ronaldo ....Thierry Henry e Mbappé na carreira inteira e em numeros de gols e assistencias ???? Possivelmente o Neymar Jr .. foi melhor também do que ele Neymar Jr 731 matches 447 goals 0, 61 % average Of Goals 731 matches 255 assists 0, 34 % average Of Assists vs Ronaldinho Gaucho 813 matches or 806 matches 300 or 301 goals 0, 36, 80 % or 0, 37 % average Of Goals 813 matches or 806 matches According TransferMarkt 232 assists 0, 28 % average Of Assists
Cara, o R9 era centroavante na inter (e em todos os times que jogou). Ele jogava numa dupla de ataque no 4-3-1-2. O Djorkaeff era o trequartista. O R10 jogava como um ponta armador no 4-3-3 naquele Barça. Nem a posição nem a função deles foi a mesma. De qualquer forma, onde eu disse que o R10 foi melhor que o R9? Onde eu disse que ele foi melhor que o Cristiano, o Henry ou o Mbappé? Eu disse que pro vieira ser considerado melhor que ele, ele teria que pelo menos ser o melhor da posição dele (volante). Cada um tem sua forma de avaliar os maiores, na minha forma, o Neymar não foi maior que o Ronaldinho porque nunca ganhou nada como protagonista. Tudo bem que ele teve problemas com lesões e gerenciamento de carreira, mas as coisas são o que são