I'll be taking a 3 week vacation in Andalucia at the beginning of next season and wanted to ask all of you 'experts' who the best players were as I plan on catching as many games as humanly possible. On Sevilla I know Baptista, Jesus Navus and Sergio Ramos are considered good and in the past (present?) Javi Navarro and Notario were too. On Betis I only know of Joaquin of course, and Oliveira. So what's your take on the Seville sides and what about Málaga and (fingers crossed for sunday) Cádiz? Who should I watch for and why?
Betis fields more of their home grown talent than their rivals Sevilla FC: Doblas, Arzu, Capi, Juanito, Joaquin, Dani, Melli, Varela some of these were the same players who won the Spanish Cup for U-17 with Betis and now have won it with the A team. Capi, Juanito and Joaquin have played on Spains National Team. As for foreigners, Edu, Lembo and Marcos Assuncao are key to the team, Denilson is washed up and should be traded by Loperini but won't. If you go to a Betis match and want to be in the loud and upbeat section get a ticket in the gol sur (south goal) and watch the match with the Supporters Gol Sur Ultra group, their tame when compared to Sevillas Biri-Biri's! Viva Er Beti Y CAMPEON DE LA COPA DEL REY 2004-05!!
For Malaga, the players to watch are Duda (a Portuguese left winger) and Baiano (Brazilian striker) although in all likelihood, Baiano will not be with the team next year. Malaga had a strong second half of the season, primarily because players like Duda and Baiano really produced goals. If Baiano does in fact leave Malaga, I expect Malaga will look to sign either Salva from Atletico Madrid or Javi Guerrero from Racing. Other decent players for Malaga are midfielders Miguel Angel, Juan Rodriguez, Manu and Romero and left back Valcarce (who pushes forward rather well). Malaga will need to sign a quality striker and strengthen their defense this off-season. Their strength is in their midfield.
Thanks for your replies.. I will watch for the players you both mentioned. A small related question: When a game is moved up to a Saturday, how far in advance do you usually know?
Usually week of, Monday seems to be the day that they set the schedules, but here are a couple of tips. Most often, games moved to Saturday involved teams playing in European competition that have Tuesday matches the following week. Obviously, Betis and Sevilla will both be playing in Europe this coming season and it's possible that Betis could have a Tuesday champs league match (which would push their La Liga match to a Saturday) or Sevilla would have a UEFA Cup match on a Thursday (which would ensure their La Liga match would be on a Sunday). Likewise, if Malaga were playing any of the European teams, their schedule could be adjusted to accomodate those possible midweek European matches. Keep your eyes open and have a copy of MARCA handy, just in case.
If you want to get entertained you go watch Sevilla FC since the beginning of time. They have the best school for players there and they get taught to play with a very high technique and to the attack. Moneywise, Betis ranks 1st, Sevilla 2nd with Malaga very far behind. Malaga does whatever it can even though every year they are candidates for relegation, and they have actually outdone themselves. However, there is sadly not much to see there in terms of players. Betis has millions, but it is controlled by an egomaniac mafia president that is rumoured to believe in santerias and things of that short who does whatever he wants to such a degree that he even put his name on the stadium. They may field more local players than Sevilla (not all the time), but only Joaquin is up to par, the rest are quite average. Sevilla produced Reyes (now at Arsenal), has Sergio Ramos (best national this season in La Liga), now on his way to Real Madrid, Navas (another one in the agenda of the big teams), all young, all great. Since they do not have as much money as Betis they support themselves through their youth and through signings with "vision". They sign foreing players cheap that usually end up in the big teams later (Suker, Zamorano...they have quite a history), something which doesn't happen at Betis, they don't seem to use their money that well (Denilson was the record breaking signing in the world in his time, and he sucked even on 2nd division). Sevilla right now has 3 Brazilians that were gotten almost free: Baptista (on Real, Barca, Chelsea, MU, everybody's agenda, better than anybody they have at Betis), Alves (best player on an U-19 WC won by Brazil recently, now probably going to Juve), Renato....Sevilla is always a much better run club. However what matters is not really the players, is how they always make good soccer. Always fun to watch, always to the attack, always for the show. Betis has put me to sleep all year long (only against Barca they didn't), in spite of them finishing 4th in the Liga, they are very tough in the back, very defensive, their games are usually short in score or ties....if you want to have fun, go to the Sanchez Pizjuan in Sevilla, don't listen to this guys.
Wow, though your tag says 'New Jersey' and 'Real Madrid' I could've sworn from this post that you were a sevillista living on the west side of Seville.. Thanks for the informative post, I forgot to mention Renato in my original post, but how could i forget a Brazillian national team member. Though I don't understand why he plays more than Baptista? I've heard Reyes old house has some cool graffiti on it still, do you know where it is?
How much did Sr Benaventa AKA Del Nazi pay you to BS about Sevilla I just got back from puking my guts after reading all that garbage. I haven't seen 3 Sevilla players playing on the same pitch with the National team since Christ was a corporal, Betis did so a couple of years ago. Sevilla B's team is in Segunda B, but Betis has more player from the cantera on their team in primera than Sevilla does. I somehow remember Euro Betis with Jarni, Finidi and a washed up Alfonso on loan from Madrid finishing 3rd, 4th and finalists in the 97 Copa where as Sevilla only qualified for the UEFA Cup just like Osasuna did because At. Madrid already had a UEFA Slot and won the Copa. By Sevilla playing with more attack what he meant was that Pablo "El Asesino" Alfaro and his interns will hack the crap out of you for 90 minutes so you can't attack! Just ask Capi! Sevilla hasn't won any hardware since 1948 that's a loooooong time, Betis with one cup less than Sevilla has won two cups in the last 28 years and played in a final in 97. Sevilla's last final which BTW they lost was in 1962. Yeah Lopera is not an angel I dislike the man and believe that he should sell his shares of the club and move on, but Sevillistas are a jealous lot as their stadium is falling apart, they have to sell their players (Reyes) to pay off their debts and more importantly they are no longer the number one club in Sevilla. You don't see Lopera selling Joaquin or Oliveira! Just remember if you do go to see Sevilla FC play make sure you take a good shower after the match because two hours in that pig stye will leave you feeling rather filthy! Viva Er Beti Manque Lopera y CAMPEONES DE LA COPA DEL REY 2004-05
Classic, I'll probably try to see both to be honest. Pichi, you mention Cadiz as one of your favorite teams in your by-line, do you know much about them?
I read the local papers on line to see how they are doing and tend to follow them on match tracker but not as in depth as with Betis. They have a hard time staying in Primera whenever they are promoted and it is because they just don't have the money to bring in the big names. If promoted to Primera it will be a great ending to a team that had been relegated to Segunda B and looked like they were dead in the water. Almost bankrupt, Don Manuel showed up with the Betis team one year for the Trofeo de Carranza and said that Betis would play for free so that Cadiz could use the appearance fee money to pay their own players and pay off some of their debt. Most of the players they currently have on hand are on loan from some of the teams in primera or their best years have gone by, such as Oli, Fredi. They have some international players like Acuna from Paraguay and De La Cuesta from Colombia. Their best players are Jonathan Sesma who has 12 goals this season, Matias Pavoni with 8 goals and Oli with 8 goals. They are coached by Victor Esparrago who had coached them earlier when they were in Primera in 87-88. If Cadiz can defeat Xerex in the Derby Gaditano this weekend they will be back in Primera and with a renovated stadium maybe you can catch a match in the Carranza and enjoy some great gambitas and pescaito frito at the many great restaurants adjacent to the stadium which sits right off the main avenida! Viva Er Beti y El Cadi!! El Pichi CAMPEONES DE LA COPA DEL REY 2004-05
Let me just give you some numbers so we can all understand this a little better.... Historical Rankings: In points won on 1st division: 8. Sevilla 2062 10. Betis 1502 Games stats: Won 7. Sevilla 762...Played 8. Sevilla 1952 %39 won...lost 3.Sevilla 746 %38 lost ......10. Betis 510..............11. Betis 1386 %36 won..........11.Betis 531 %38 lost Goals in Favor: 7. Sevilla 2940 11. Betis 1781 Goals Against: 5. Sevilla 2804 12.Betis 1976 Both rankings are irrelevant, since Sevilla has been in 2nd division quite a lot less than Betis, therefore playing more games in 1st, so what matters is the goal difference: 6. Sevilla +136 42!!!!!!, yes!! 42nd!!!!! Betis -195 (-195!! OMG! ) Only Real, Barca, Bilbao, Atletico & Valencia rank higher than Sevilla, and this, my friend, is the reality. Historically, Sevilla is right behind the top clubs (there is a jump between the five and Sevilla, but it is), and it's always been like this. Hardware, Sevilla has 1 Liga and 1 Cup, and Betis has 1 Liga and now 2 Cups (2nd just won days ago). Sevilla is traditionally the best club in Andalucia, and nationally one of the few with a true 1st division tradition (most games & seasons played). In what respects to positioning in the league tables throughout the entire history of La Liga, it is too long to post here. Let's just consider the times that either team has ranked in the top 3: 3rd: Sevilla - Betis 2-2 2nd: Sevilla - Betis 4-0 1st: Sevilla - Betis 1-1 Sevilla 7 Betis 3 Sevilla has finished in the 1st 10 positions 47 times in 61 seasons: 77% (almost always), 17 times in the top 5! - 27% of the seasons. Betis has finished in the 1st 10 spots 27 times in 42 seasons: 64%, 10 times in the top 5 - 23%. Betis is simply the new rich kid on the block, thanks to a president very close to ending up in jail this year for tax problems who has a lot of money (so much that we don't know much), doubling Sevilla's budget (which didn't stop Betis from ending up in 2nd div. with all of their stars, Lopera and his money not long ago). This, however, is recent history, very recent. Sevilla, by the way, has more assets than Betis, way more. They own a lot of land in the city by the river which they could do a lot more with, and is by no means a poor club or in ruins. It is simply a club that through several years, through a much longer history has developed a style and tradition in the way that they do business and in the way they play in the field: Sevilla has a tradition of developing players which end up all over 1st division, and they have a traditional style of play based on technique and attack. Betis has none of it, they do not have a way of playing by which they can be recognized, they never did. Sevilla tries to play like the great, much bigger teams like Real or Barca, only that with much more limited resources, and therefore with a lot more of in-house players. You mention Betis players in the NT....well, Sevilla is a selling club (which gives them a hell of a lot more merit than Betis for what they are doing), so their players are all over: Villareal (and AC Milan, Atletico, NT): Jose Mari Valencia: Marchena, NT Deportivo: Hector. Atletico: Velasco (Celta, NT), Salva (Valencia, Malaga, NT) Getafe: Gallardo, Yordi Mallorca: Campano Numancia: Tevenet (Atletico, Sevilla...) Arsenal: Reyes.... If I go back to the last two or three years, and I count & compare them, Betis goes nowhere. If I count how many players have been on the NT directly from Sevilla or formed at Sevilla it's just going to be a beating......know your place. Betis has more money, resources, but they are not Sevilla. This is like Abramovich coming to buy Atletico or Español and fans starting to compare them to Real or Barca....it takes a lot more than just money. It takes things like class, business manners, style, tradition...Lopera has the money, but none of these things. I wouldn't put my money on Betis getting anywhere close to what Sevilla is anytime soon. (by the way, I do live on the west side of Sevilla.... ...and I have no idea where Reyes' house is, but he is from Utrera (nearby), should be somewhere around there...
I was going to provide Pichi with some smarka$$ reply, but with Iberian's post there is just nothing left to say. Expect maybe advising deeplennon to wear a construction hat at the Betis stadium and when you exit the stadium do not go north. I live in Utrera, but I'm not sure about graffitti on Reyes' old home. I know he comes from a working class family, but never really paid attention to information about him like his home barrio. He does donate a lot of signed jerseys and things like that to auction for Utrera charities. Deeplennon, if you come by Utrera in September try to match up to their feria. It's not as big or famous as the Sevilla feria, but it is ran in the same style with most of the casetas (looks like tents to most yanks) being open to the public.
I like Daniel Alves of Sevilla. While he doesn't get the coverage the other names mentioned get, he is exciting to watch and very young. I expect him to go to a big team soon for good money.
That's just it you guys are still stuck in the Franco era when Sevilla was indeed a team to reckon with. You guys are on the decline and have been for awhile. I wouldn't go bragging about ex-sevillistas playing for other teams it means that Sevilla just couldn't afford to keep them where as when most Betis players get the boot it's because they are washed up and need to and are headed for the pastures. Who the hell would want to play for a team indulges in beating the crap out of referee's and then having key directors help the player out of the locker room so that the Portuguese cops don't arrest the player. That everytime something bad happens it's Loperas fault. Like your centennial after a disgrace of a year Sr Benavente decides that the real centennial starts this July. What the hell is going to happen after this season when Betis whips your Palanganas once again, will you change your centennial to another year! I thank God every day that I'm a Betico even though our Presi is a jerk and a moron. Rumor has it the road to Hell is paved with Sevillistas! Viva Er Beti Manque Lopera and Hey Sevillistas when is the last time you guys won a Copa (liga or Copa)? Rumor has it that the Spanish Traffic Council (DGT) is using you guys for ads on anti-DUI campaign. I believe that the slogan goes like this: La Direccion General de Trafico (DGT) aconsej: "Siga el ejemplo de Sevilla FC y sus afcionados: 70 anhos sin tocar una copa. Si bebes no conduzcas! Viva Er Beti Manque Lopera! El Pichi
The truth of it is Betis wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the jerk and moron. He best represents what the Ugly Green is all about; jealous of Sevilla's past, afraid of Sevilla's present, having nightmares about Sevilla's future.