Best Players at 1924 and 1928 Olympics

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by AD78, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    After having consulted different sources, I make a list of the best players by position in the 1928 Olympic Games:
    Goalkeepers: 1st - Mazali; 2nd - Van der Meulen.
    Right defenders: 1º.- Nasazzi; 2º.- Bidoglio
    Left defenders: 1º.- Arispe; 2º.- Caligaris; 3º.- Quincoces
    Right midfield: 1º.- Andrade
    Midfield: 1º.- Monti; 2º.- Fernández; 3º.- Augusto Silva; 4º.- Kalb
    Left midfielder: 1º.- Evaristo; 2º.- Gestido
    Right end: 1º.- Urdinarán; 2º.- Carricaberry
    Inside right: 1º.- Baloncieri; 2º.- Scarone; 3º.- Tarasconi
    Center forward: 1º.- Ferreira; 2º.- Braine
    Inside left: 1º.- Mokhtar; 2º.- Cherro
    Far left: 1º.- Orsi; 2º.- Levratto.
    Interestingly, the only position in which there is no competition is the one occupied by Andrade, who, however, was much discussed. Without going any further, Gabriel Hanot includes him along with Bossio and Petrone among his great disappointments. It is true that in some games he has been enormous and that I have not found other players more suitable for his position.
    Scarone, Tarasconi and Levratto, however, could very well be ranked among the 8 or 10 best players of the tournament, but with the superb Baloncieri and Orsi, they would have no place in the XI, unless we put them in alternative positions. Perhaps, this XI could include the best:
    Mazali; Nasazzi, Arispe; Andrade, Monti, Evaristo; Levratto, Scarone, Tarasconi, Baloncieri and Orsi.

    Después de haber consultado diferentes fuentes, hago una lista de los mejores jugadores por posición en los Juegos Olímpicos de 1928:
    Porteros: 1º.- Mazali; 2º.- Van der Meulen
    Defensas derechos: 1º.- Nasazzi; 2º.- Bidoglio
    Defensas izquierdos: 1º.- Arispe; 2º.- Caligaris; 3º.- Quincoces
    Medio derecho: 1º.- Andrade
    Mediocentro: 1º.- Monti; 2º.- Fernández; 3º.- Augusto Silva; 4º.- Kalb
    Medio izquierdo: 1º.- Evaristo; 2º.- Gestido
    Extremo derecho: 1º.- Urdinarán; 2º.- Carricaberry
    Interior derecho: 1º.- Baloncieri; 2º.- Scarone; 3º.- Tarasconi
    Delantero centro: 1º.- Ferreira; 2º.- Braine
    Interior izquierdo: 1º.- Mokhtar; 2º.- Cherro
    Extremo izquierdo: 1º.- Orsi; 2º.- Levratto.
    Curiosamente, el único puesto en el que no hay competencia es el que ocupa Andrade, quien sin embargo, fue muy discutido. Sin ir más lejos, Gabriel Hanot lo incluye junto a Bossio y Petrone entre sus grandes decepciones. Sí es cierto que en algunos partidos está enorme y que no he encontrado otros jugadores más idóneos para su puesto.
    Sin embargo, Scarone, Tarasconi y Levratto, perfectamente podrían estar calificados entre los 8 o 10 mejores jugadores del torneo, pero al coincidir con los magníficos Baloncieri y Orsi, no tendrían lugar en el XI, salvo que los situásemos en posiciones alternativas. Tal vez, este XI podría incluir a los mejores:
    Mazali; Nasazzi, Arispe; Andrade, Monti, Evaristo; Levratto, Scarone, Tarasconi, Baloncieri y Orsi.
     
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  2. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Having examined different Spanish sources of the time, I have put together an ideal team of the 1924 Olympic Games. I have omitted Zamora, Vallana and Piera because they played only one game, although they did well in that match, especially Vallana despite his ungrateful and famous play. I am also leaving out Salem even though he was one of the heroes in the incredible victory over the Hungarians and Kada, who judging from what I have read was far from his level. This would be my XI:
    TEAM A: De Pra; Nasazzi, Ramseyer; Andrade, Schmiedlin, Ghierra; Urdinaran, Scarone, Petrone, Max Abegglen and Kock.
    I have tried to make a B team as well, but I have unfilled holes:
    TEAM B: Mazali, Antonin Hojer, Denis*; Kolenaty, X, X; X, Rydell, Pijl, Cea and Romano.
    Faced with a surplus of good right backs I have decided to put Denis on the left to the detriment of Frantisek Hojer who also had good games.

    Habiendo examinado diferentes fuentes españoles de la época, he constituido un equipo ideal de los Juegos Olímpicos de 1924. He obviado a Zamora, Vallana y a Piera por haber jugado un solo partido, a pesar de que en dicho encuentro lo hicieron bien, en especial Vallana a pesar de su desagraciada y famosa jugada. También prescindo de Salem aunque fue uno de los héroes en la increíble victoria sobre los húngaros y de Kada, quien a juzgar por lo leído estuvo lejos de su nivel. Este sería mi XI:
    EQUIPO A: De Pra; Nasazzi, Ramseyer; Andrade, Schmiedlin, Ghierra; Urdinarán, Scarone, Petrone, Max Abegglen y Kock.
    He intentado hacer también un equipo B, pero tengo huecos sin cubrir:
    EQUIPO B: Mazali, Antonin Hojer, Denis*; Kolenaty, X, X; X, Rydell, Pijl, Cea y Romano.
    Ante un superavit de buenos defensas derechos he decidido colocar a Denis por la izquierda en perjuicio de Frantisek Hojer quien también realizó buenos partidos.
     
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  3. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    @TerjeC , @Isaque Argolo , here is a good place to post some contemporaries reports / articles about Olympic Games from the 1920s
     
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  4. TerjeC

    TerjeC Member

    None
    Norway
    Nov 19, 2023
    Norway
    I have this I saw just recently, published in The Scotsman from the Press Association (via londonhearts.com).

    _20250620_011832.JPG

    "There is no doubt they are as fine an amateur team as ever has been seen on a football field, and the opinion was expressed that they would extend a good many professional sides."

    ----------------
    Some Swedish view on the 1924 Olympics I have posted in the 'Alltime Club World Cup thread', post #530 and #532.

    And here a Swedish best XI in Dagens Nyheter newspaper, posted in another thread originally:
    Reposting this too from last summer, originally posted in my thread 'All World Cup winners classified':
    "Before the semifinals of the 1924 Olympics, [Norwegian] Peder Chr. Andersen (referee in some of the games and journalist, later also a famous radio commentator) wrote a short piece for Aftenposten (4 June 1924).

    He considers Uruguay's right half [Andrade] as absolutely one of the worlds best players – and that is including 'the English professionals' too. He also praises the CH [Zibechi?], right back [Nasazzi] and whole forward line of Uruguay.

    He considers Switzerland and 'Holland' as 'absolutely weaker' of the four. Although he says he have not seen Holland play, 'but everyone thinks they are weaker than ever'.

    He considers Uruguay to have the best individual players – 'some are wonderful in technique and dribbling'. But it seems he consider Sweden in reality slight favourites: 'Uruguay doesn't have the team solidity that Sweden have' and 'Sweden have an advantage in it's stamina, it's style and it's defence'. [Sweden had beaten Belgium 8–1 and Egypt 5–0 previously in the tournament].

    He praises Sweden's Kock (OL), and Sven Rydell (IR) – 'the Olympics most elegant forward'."
     
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  5. Isaque Argolo

    Isaque Argolo Member

    None
    Oct 15, 2017
    Brazil
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Thank you, @msioux75.

    There were some things that didn't fit together around the VII. Olympiad, as it wasn't as targeted tournament as others. I do not have a whole section gathered for this tournament, but I would like to contribute with the final, because it does seem to have a dichotomous idea regarding the final, whether the Czechs were "home-refereed" — in this case, Lewis used to write for Belgian newspapers or just too furious, angry enough regarding the different English ways.

    I even wrote about this — https://arfsh.com/article?id=2040 —, but found that Hugo Meisl was an eyewitness, and wrote this:

    As always, the Czechoslovakians demonstrated the Scottish school of coach Madden. In contrast to their lively opponents, they pushed for short but precise passing with all the forwards constantly changing positions. The simple style of play of the Belgians seemed amateurish compared to the finely thought-out passing actions of the Czechs. Both teams had an equal share of the game. While the Czech inside trio Vaník, Pilát and Janda, despite their fine passing play, were unable to get past the robust Belgian full-backs due to their slowness, the Czech defenders Hojer and Steiner had trouble fending off the dynamic attacks of the nimble Belgian forwards. Steiner (Viktoria Žižkov) as left back and Káďa (Sparta) as centre-half played excellently. Neither side created any clear chances in the first 20 minutes. The Belgians became more aggressive for a while and in a quick combination attack the centre-forward shot at the visitors' goal. The Czech goalkeeper Klapka caught the ball, but at the same moment the left Belgian inside left punched in and powerfully shoved Klapka, who only threw the ball two or three steps away. In the following moment the ball flew into the goal, Klapka was still lying motionless on the ground (whether as a result of the critical shove or for tactical reasons remains to be seen) and the left back Steiner had no choice but to use his hand to deflect the ball from its flight path. The referee whistled and pointed and awarded a penalty!

    The Czech players then protested vigorously, not against the penalty, but against the allegedly illegal jostling of their goalkeeper Klapka. The latter was fit to play again after a few minutes. This goal would most likely never have been scored by us, because our referees, contrary to the rules, regard the goalkeeper as a sacrosanct and thus ignore the important points of the goalkeeper, even if the goalkeeper takes the ball over the line when under pressure. The English referee and rules editor Lewis is used to the tough league game system, and it is probably due to these circumstances that he recognized the jostling of Klapka as correct. In my opinion, however, and this may be subjectively subtle according to our attacking concepts against goalkeepers, Klapka was tackled more than harshly, I must almost say in a rough manner. I had the impression that the Belgian forward ran at Klapka in full sprint and left the ground with both feet during the significant shove. I was unable to confirm the circumstances afterwards, but I would have called the Belgian's shove a foul.

    In this excited atmosphere, with the referee's whistle signal being so deafening that neither the players nor the audience could hear it, the game continued until around 12 minutes before half-time. Suddenly, as if on command, there was complete silence in the entire stadium. A flutist began to play the Belgian national anthem just as the home team was about to attack. Thousands upon thousands sang along, and in just a few moments the Belgian inside left raced away from the Czech defence with the ball and made his way to the Czech full-back pair, passed the right back Hojer and, under pressure from the left defender Steiner at full speed, he scored a brilliant goal with a powerful shot from a distance of 20-25 metres.

    Nevertheless, I had the feeling that the ball could have been saved. Apparently the Czech goalkeeper Klapka was surprised by the quick action and the powerful shot from the nimble Belgian. Belgium was 2:0 ahead.

    The Belgians and with them 40-50,000 fanatical supporters became more and more excited. The audience was seized by a frenzy of joy, which was abruptly interrupted by an incident that was far more than embarrassing.

    A RUDENESS FROM THE CZECH DEFENDER.

    On the occasion of a Belgian attack after the second goal, the Belgian inside right Coppée, without the ball, ran to receive the ball. The left Czech full-back Steiner, unconcerned about the ball, ran towards the forward Coppée and knocked him out with a undoubtedly deliberate kick in the stomach. The referee blew the whistle, sent Steiner off and the popular forward Coppée was carried off the pitch. For a minute there was confusion and shouts of protest on the field. Then the sent off full-back Steiner, followed by the captain Káďa and most of the other Czech players, left the field.

    AN INGLORIOUS END.

    Two or three of the red-and-white striped players hesitated, but finally submitted to the unsportsmanlike behaviour of the majority. The audience streamed onto the field in masses, and threats and insults were heard everywhere. The inevitable chanting of course dominated the general mood, but I had the impression that the fanatical audience was only prevented from serious riots because the Belgians had secured their long-awaited Olympic victory by the Czechoslovaks' withdrawal. The centre-half and captain of the Belgians was adorned with a laurel wreath, carried onto the field, the crowd cheered, the Czechoslovakian flag was taken down, dissatisfied and bitter, the huge Belgian crowd of spectators, as well as all allies and neutrals, began the long journey home to Antwerp and Brussels. Thus, five minutes before half-time, the 1920 Football Olympics in Antwerp ended.

    This is my contribution for now. I would like to add that he also comments about shots — literally gun being fired — being fired when the Czech flag was taken down. This was reported by the Hungarian press, which were having a distant war against the Czech sides backs in the day. I did not translate this yet, but Meisl said there were no shots or anything like that.

    Many narratives were made, but this one seems very reliable.
     
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  6. Isaque Argolo

    Isaque Argolo Member

    None
    Oct 15, 2017
    Brazil
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Regarding the VIII. Olympiad, I have this: https://arfsh.com/page?id=2

    This is a very detailed page regarding the opinion of the ones who saw the matches, although I still have to add a lot of articles. If the website blocks, just register and comment back, and I will set the rank for now so people can see for a day or so.

    Regarding the IX Olympiad, I don't have a direct page which gathers the whole articles, but just search and you will find, just like this one: https://arfsh.com/article?id=749
     
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  7. TerjeC

    TerjeC Member

    None
    Norway
    Nov 19, 2023
    Norway
    Re: 1920 Final; here is a view from a Norwegian journalist:

    "[...] With regard to the referee, he probably had the biggest task any referee has had, and it was certainly too big for him. Mr. Lewis was frankly a little too old, a little too slow to follow the fast-paced game and many irregularities, and he therefore did not have the match in his hand. Albihn, Mutters, Smedvik or Vestergaard would have done better.

    My personal opinion is: 1) that the Belgians were the best side in the 40 mins the match lasted, 2) the blame for the rough play lies with both teams, 3) that the [Czecho]Slovaks had not enough reason to leave the field – they certainly had a lot of 'headwind' but they should have been such good sportsmen to have tried to play the match out, 4) that the 1st goal was wrong [should have been free kick for the goalkeeper], the 2nd goal correct and the referee's sending off of the [Czecho]Slovak was correct, 5) that the jury's decision is correct, but it should have given Czechoslovakia the opportunity to play for the 2nd and 3rd prize.

    For the Belgians' vandalism towards the Czechoslovakian flag, the main committee has publicly come forward with an apology."

    _20250625_014215.JPG
    Norsk idrætsblad og Sport, issue 34. 30 September 1920.
     
  8. Isaque Argolo

    Isaque Argolo Member

    None
    Oct 15, 2017
    Brazil
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The way I see this final is just like A.C. Sparta and S.K. Slavia used to play sometimes. The Czech sides were known for rough play and unsportsmanlike behavior. There were many examples regarding this, especially against foreign sides. They also used to fight between each others - Kolenatý and Hojer, for instance. It does not surprise me this whole attitude of the Czech side.

    Regarding the first goal, there was a problem on having John Lewis, an Englishman in charge of the final, because some of the rules and views from England were very different compared to Continental Europe. Charging the goalkeeper with great force was common in England, and if we take into account that Lewis was old and belonged to the days where violence was much more present, then we have a disaster. Most of the continental referees would have given a foul, but most English wouldn't.

    This is totally a question of perspective. Rules were not genarelly propagated back in the day. For instance, goalkeepers in England used to goal kick directly, while many other Continental and South American sides would have a full-back to pass the ball to the goalkeeper and then he would send a kick.
     
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