Personally, I think this is what makes Messi so ridiculous. Maradona's genius is mitigated by his flaws. What if Maradona was an ultra-rational player on the field like a Bergkamp? Well, that's what Messi is. Messi, like a Bergkamp or a Xavi or a Lahm, almost always make the right decisions. The difference is Messi is as good as Maradona. So when Messi makes a safe 5 yard pass or a 40 yard through ball taking out 5 defenders, it is almost always the correct decision to make.
I think you overrate bergkamp a bit here He was efficient,cold in front of goal (the iceman they called him) but Diego was aswell when he wanted to be Maradona picked the right option 8 times out of 10,Messi maybe 8.5 and Xavi 9.5(but most of his options were safe bets-only the wind will intercept a 2 yard sideway pass) Xavi (yes like I said I agree) it’s hard to argue against the 95% pass accuracy and he was a great chance creator aswell so he obviously played his fair share of incisive passes Maradona had a panoramic vision of the field(you could argue like Messi) But unlike him he had that spark of ingenuity to execute any type of pass whatever the situation demanded If he is backed in a corner or a tight angle he can pull of a bicycle kick pass There are the 50-60 yard laser passes that I haven’t seen Messi pull of with any sort of regularity (only platini,netzer and xabi Alonso from this generation) I think maradona had an unparalleled game IQ(and decision making is part of this) he only seemed more error prone i believe because he attempted outrageously difficult things Even so I’ve never heard it suggested he was a liability or had a detrimental effect on his teams Except probably during 1990/91 but his mind was all over the place by then
Brian Laudrup won the Euro-92 and so did better for Denmark than his older brother Michal Laudrup .. if you were to ask us Danes who is the the best Danish player ever, then it would be between Allan Simonsen (the only Scandinavian ever to win the European footballer of the year Ballon d'Or) and Michal Laudrup who was selected as the Best Foreign Player in Spanish football in the last 25 years: 1974–1999 .. in 3rd place would be MBE (Most Excellent Order of the British Empire and Order of knighthood and chivalry) Peter Schmeichel ...
Nicklas Bendtner, who officially became Lord Bendtner some years ago : https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/about-time-nicklas-bendtner-officially-becomes-a-lord-17379 ... is the 7th most scoring in history (30 goals in 84 games) for the Danish NT behind Michael Laudrup ... https://www.dbu.dk/landshold/herrelandshold/a-landsholdet/topscoreliste Eriksen has so far made 25 goals in 85 games for the Danish NT ... but then he is not a striker...
He is literally the most trolled player in the history of English football (after Emilie heskey) If Romelu lukaku doesn’t shed some pounds and make some drastic improvements to his all round game he is in danger of following suit
Cesc was in a class of his own. No one make more successful difficult passes than he did. He's also the quickest player to make 100 assists. Took him some 70 less games than Giggs, although I suspect he took more set-pieces than Giggs who had Beckham. For me, 2010 Cesc was as good a central midfielder as we've ever seen in the EPL. He was both the guy picking up the ball from the defense, the conductor in midfild, the chance creator in the final third, and also the club's league top goalscorer.
Alexis Sanchez played against......Diego maradona I think he was a kid here(14-16 years old max) Still though a Reasonably good playmaking performance from a 46 year old maradona
@PDG1978 Id appreciate an honest assessment re who the most talented 90s playmaker was I know Micheal laudrup is the popular choice and your personal favourite can stojkovic legitimately challenge or did he kill his chances by going to Japan with still so much to give I knew he was good at WC 90 but I never knew how great he actually was There is a Japanese channel on YouTube called sekurarattu If your not familiar with it check it out. This could sound a bit blasphemous here but I actually think piksi was more talented than Michel Platini,a more rounded passer than laudrup and even a better player than savecivic His skillset for a playmaker was just completely WOW When we talk about talented players who did not fulfil their true potential he’d have to be right up there alongside George Best These Eastern European legends from the late 80s and early 90s are just criminally underrated I’ve probably said this so many times but it’s the truth PS Some research has to be done on dragans assist tally From this channel alone I calculated well over 100 And I would not be surprised if he was in the 150-200 range (including NT) This was from a player who did not recognise his full potential It’s actually almost unbelievable (My favourite picks from the channel) The first is all round passing The second back heel passing @Edhardy
Yeah, I'm definitely familiar with the channel, but didn't watch absolutely everything on it as yet (compared to the Laudruppp one or whatever it is called - I forget now off the top of my head - I'd have watched less I suppose). I think I always assumed it was a Serbian fan making the videos, but perhaps you are right that they are Japanese. I suppose there are two aspects that make things a bit uncertain: all of us have to make some sort of estimation when trying to give verdicts on various great players vs each other, and as per what I/we posted on this thread defining playmakers and who are the best is not easy, and some might say if looking at two agreed 'playmakers' that the one he deems the better player is therefore the better playmaker, but someone else might say the one who is best purely at making/dictating plays etc is the best playmaker. If I'm consistent with my previous estimations then my idea would be that all in all Stojkovic can be a very feasible candidate among the best ever (perhaps top 10) players from a technical viewpoint (being well rounded in capabilities in that respect), but above Michael Laudrup in that regard I'm not sure. I tend to think Laudrup can be deemed a better player (when both playing their best - I think he was quicker and a better mazy dribbler etc which helps give him extra strings to his bow) and that (partly?) since Stojkovic did go to Japan, his career resume is more significant too. Better playmaker too? Maybe yes, but not if someone sees a playmaker as more of a midfield creator and inventor rather than a final 3rd kind of player. Stojkovic was clearly very capable with setting up chances and goals though and yeah looking into his assist total if possible would be interesting. He's a player that missed out on chances to shine and contribute to successful runs at International level (like Savicevic, Boban and others) while Yugoslavia had the enforced hiatus in the mid 90s of course.
I’d have to refer to the archives but I’m sure laudrup never had a World Cup Match like stojkovic vs Spain(never mind laudrup that was one of the best ever individual displays at WC level I’ve seen alongside hagi vs Colombia,Zidane vs Brazil and just below maradonas QF and SF performances in 86) Piksi played deeper than laudrup(in a traditional midfielder playmaker role than laudrup who was an AM almost playing behind the main striker) Do you have any reliable assists stats for laudrup I know it was claimed figo held the La Liga record that Messi went on to break but I’m sure laudrup would be pretty high up in assists based on the available footage I’ve seen
I think Laudrup vs Urugauy (1986) is better (maybe you will agree or maybe not of course) - available on YouTube I think anyway. I do think Piksi had an excellent World Cup in general in 1990 though. No, I don't have detailed assist stats to hand for him. I'm not fully sure when La Liga assist stats would have officially started being recorded, but could be after Laudrup's time even.
I’ll check it(is that his best tournament performance for Denmark in your opinion) So I guess if piksi makes your top 10 most technical players(mine too) than laudrup must also? As dribbler(in terms of accuracy and general flair surely dragan was better) Don’t know if you’ve seen the comp I’m referring to but he sat Frank rijkaard a GOAT DM on his ass several times(did the same to gullit a few times aswell) Comparing their complete technical skillset piksi was better at set pieces in scoring and assisting in addition to close control dribbling while laudrup had an edge in scoring and final ball assists/passes (laudrup was definitely a more accomplished player I’m only here comparing talent+skillset)
Yes, Re: Uruguay performance (next potentially may even be vs Nigeria in 1998 but not so sure - maybe next most significant in the context of team performance and progress at least anyway). And yes, Re: Laudrup for top 10 technical players (not to claim it's indisputable). I think the edge for Laudrup in dribbling is in fluidity and elusiveness. I don't feel he's less good than Dragan in close control, but could be different kind of situations would favour one or the other in that respect (Laudrup better on the run, like Messi would be for example, and Dragan in closed spaces at low speed perhaps like Zidane could be). Could be interesting (but complicated/difficult and very arguable) to try to break down their passing abilities against each other. Anyway, yeah I think you'd enjoy Laudrup vs Uruguay.
Like you I think that period (players born around the second half of 1960s) had a wealth of skilled ones and for many cases it is difficult to really rank them. It was really a stacked period I think. Stojkovic his problem is that outside of 1990WC he rarely showed it against the big sides. His individual resume for the national team and in Europe (despite some flashes) isn't great, and was for various reasons not a success in the French league and Serie A, could settle there. But surely a notable/memorable player of that time. To what extent is his NT plus club career worse than Gascoigne for example? Is that gap so big? In 1990 he was of world class level imho, maybe best in his position even. Was included in BdO 1988-1990.
Yeah, I feel like Stojkovic & Enzo Scifo is quite a good and fair comparison for best level and/or career too probably. The closest they got to peaking at the same time would maybe be that 1990 World Cup I guess, but otherwise despite not being far apart age wise they had their best spells at different times probably (injuries etc can play a part in that to an extent).
I was under the impression from previous conversations that dribbling past multiple players at low speed suggests a higher level of technical ability Zidane seldomly beat two players on 1 dribbling run and he couldn’t also shield the ball as good as piksi He was(or attempted to be) more of a soloist and a lot of the times he just couldn’t pull it off Not saying laudrup couldn’t beat a player from a stationary position he in fact did on too many times to count (famously with his trademark la croqueta move) With predominantly one footed expert dribblers most of the time you know what their going to do but can’t stop them anyways With piksi there is just no telling what side he’s going to dribble literally at walking or jogging speed he is able to routinely beat as many players as laudrup could at high speed. Messi is one of the best dribblers at high intensity and at low speed I’ve seen him beat multiple players in both situations many times(he is much better than laudrup in both dribbling scenarios) I agree with puck that his generation was the most stacked in terms of technical players Later players from the second half of the 90s moulded their game on them and Zidane with his roulette or figo with his stepovers to a younger audience looked like pioneers or technical genuises the more I watch the more I’m convinced the 1985-1995 generation had the most depth in terms of gifted players Note I have watched the game you recommended and it is by far his best I’ve seen for the NT I think laudrup clearly looked more athletic on the run and was decisive with a good assist on then 1-0 goal and a solo goal for the third. Elkjaer looked just as impressive on the night but Uruguay as a whole were just underwhelming (it doesn’t help that they were playing for the vast majority of the match with 10 men) Really though I don’t think you can compare a groupstage performance vs a handicapped side with a must win KO stage performance
Just to (in brief) come back to this - and he was very much a playmaker indeed; Scifo is an interesting case in the way he's one of Belgium's most famous players abroad, helped by his World Cup games (e.g. the cleanly hit shot on the post against England 1990, great free kicks in 1986) and starring in Serie A during their peak (finishing 3rd with Torino and losing UEFA Cup final against Ajax), but is not placed as high domestically. Domestically he's regularly placed between 10 and 20, though there are also reader polls (a minority) placing him top 10. A Dutch football poll among readers had him 11th of his country (below some pre-1970s names). In some way he's both 'overrated' and underrated. Overrated because of his skill which often leads to ignoring consistency and application, underrated because people don't associate Anderlecht, Monaco and Torino with top teams while those kind of were (not the absolute elite but a step below). Anderlecht was even #1 in ClubElo for a while during his time, and both Monaco and Anderlecht had good/strong European records around that time (with a number of finals and semi finals). France Football did place him among the 35 best foreigners in Ligue 1 history. As figured out in the other thread, he's one of the few players to receive a vote/nomination for four different clubs (Scifo, Gullit, Seedorf, Boniek, Hagi, Ibra, Laudrup, Klinsmann, Ronaldo) and was at the age of 17 already very good and kind of a semi-pivotal player for his team (winning the UEFA Cup). He had also some low points, sure, starting with the last ~ 1.5 seasons of his first Anderlecht spell. So I think he's a mixed case, both as a player and how he's perceived.