Best football players of all time

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by stcv1974, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. EdgarAllanPoet

    EdgarAllanPoet Member+

    May 1, 2011

    Fumny thing is, he is equally obsessed with Tyson and completely disrespects boxing and every other fighter in the process. And you're right, he is on a 24/7 mission. I don't think he has even the semblance of a life.

    He is horrible. He alienates even Barcelona fans. He's not a fan of Barcelona, Argentina or even the game.

    I have never seen him say anything critical or slightly negative about Messi. He doesn't discuss any facet of the sport not directly related to Messi.

    I forget the name of the forum now but he has a gif of Mike Tyson as his avatar. Every poster there and 'Barcaforum" hates him too.

    Messi fans try to reason with him and encourage him to see the error or his ways to no avail. He's a robot lacking any intelligence, insight or perception. Fitting that leadleader loves his posts.
     
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  2. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Top post @leadleader. Then there's the WC, the greatest event in the galaxy (not just the greatest sporting event). No one is expecting C Ronaldo to win the WC with Portugal, but if Hagi (Romania), Scifo (Belgium), and James (Colombia) gave such exquisite performances, surely C Ronaldo should be able to. Of course, he does not have a half a billion worth of teammates behind him in Portugal and thus he sucks!

    By the way, C Ronaldo is not even close to top 20 all time. I would generously put him in the top 50 but that's about it.

    Here's a summary: C Ronaldo is overrated and rightly so!

    No it's not. Ronaldinho was no competition when left Barcelona, Higuain does not play out wide for Argentina any more than he does at his club and Aguero plays better not being an in-the-box striker.
     
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  3. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    To be fair, Ronaldo is naturally going to have less through balls as he plays on the wings. Can you post stats for both through balls and crosses?

    @Bada Bing
     
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  4. EdgarAllanPoet

    EdgarAllanPoet Member+

    May 1, 2011
    Champion's League is the greatest competition hands down. The World Cup is ridiculous. Some teams have the easiest path to a semi-final imaginable while others have to play the best teams in the tournament in the groups and second round.

    Some teams are stacked with players who all play for the same club while others have hardly an experience playing together.

    Argentina's competition was a complete joke. Brazil 2002 etc..Injuries, refereeing, form, luck and the draw play way too big of a role in a one off 7 game tournament.

    It's not the 50's and 60's where players were scattered throughout the world and fans never got to see some of the greatest players until the World Cup brought them all together. That cache is gone. All the top players compete every year in the Champion's League. The quality is a few tiers above those boring 0-0-1-0 snoozefests with two teams scared to take a chance.
     
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  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Going by your own statistics you give, what's the balance since 2011-12 (when Barca lost somewhat of their "team edge") and excluding the Supercopas?

    Looking at the match grades as published at the football-ratings website I don't think the edge is as big as you present. I'll take a look later...
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    He 'sucked' because he was half-fit and Pepe threw their chances in the garbage can. To lose a match with 4-0 is deadly in a format that's decided on goal-difference.
    Besides, he did modestly well in the two remaining matches (he was "clutch"), without being as wasteful as his rival who indeed had a 'superteam' behind his back.
     
  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I've watched the Zidane video in full now leadleader. Credit to you - you certainly did pick 'good' rather than 'bad' games and footage and it's an enjoyable video.

    I think I will have watched the Valderrama one and commented on your points by tomorrow night at the latest. I might do it point by point, or might do an overall summary (but responding to the points I was prompted to ie there may be things that stand alone as your comments but I'll make sure I reply to the jist of your points anyway even if not each one directly).
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #208 PuckVanHeel, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    OK, see and behold (2011-2014):

    Real Madrid (1-3) Barcelona, La Liga 2011/2012

    Ronaldo 4.60 vs Messi 7.00
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2011/12/player-ratings-real-madrid-1-barcelona.html

    Real Madrid (1-2) Barcelona, Copa del Rey Quarter Final 2011/2012

    Ronaldo 6.25 vs Messi 6.75
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/01/player-ratings-real-madrid-1-barcelona.html

    Barcelona (2-2) Real Madrid, Copa del Rey Quarter Final 2011/2012

    Ronaldo 6.80 vs Messi 6.40
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/01/player-ratings-barcelona-2-real-madrid.html

    Barcelona (1-2) Real Madrid, La Liga 2011/2012

    Ronaldo 7.20 vs Messi 5.70
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/04/player-ratings-barcelona-1-real-madrid.html

    Barcelona (2-2) Real Madrid, La Liga 2012/2013

    Ronaldo 7.80 vs Messi 7.90 (I'd call this close a difference a tie)
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/10/player-ratings-barcelona-2-real-madrid-2.html

    Real Madrid (1-1) Barcelona, Copa del Rey Semi Final 2012/2013

    Ronaldo 6.30 vs Messi 5.80
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2013/01/player-ratings-real-madrid-1-barcelona.html

    Barcelona (1-3) Real Madrid, Copa del Rey Semi Final 2012/2013

    Ronaldo 8.60 vs Messi 4.80
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2013/02/player-ratings-barcelona-1-real-madrid-3.html

    Real Madrid (2-1) Barcelona, La Liga 2012/2013

    Ronaldo 7.00 vs Messi 5.60
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2013/03/player-ratings-real-madrid-2-barcelona-1.html

    Barcelona (2-1) Real Madrid, La Liga 2013/2014

    Ronaldo 6.10 vs Messi 5.30
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2013/10/player-ratings-barcelona-2-real-madrid-1.html

    Real Madrid (3-4) Barcelona, La Liga 2013/2014

    Ronaldo 5.70 vs Messi 8.40
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2014/03/player-ratings-real-madrid-3-barcelona-4.html

    Barcelona (1-2) Real Madrid, Copa del Rey Final 2013/2014

    Ronaldo N/A vs Messi 4.80
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2014/04/player-ratings-barcelona-1-real-madrid.html


    N.B. creator of the blog, that gathers the average match grades of matches, thinks Lionel Messi is the greatest player of all-time.
    N.B. 2 if ppl insist I can also add the 'Supercopa' ('Community Shield') pre-season games, but wasn't sure.

    ------


    Higher match grade (2011-2014)

    Ronaldo 6
    Messi 4 (incl. the CdR 2014 final)

    Average match grade

    Ronaldo 6.64
    Messi 6.22

    Higher match grade despite losing the match

    Ronaldo 1
    Messi 0

    Match grades lower than 6.00 ('big game flop')

    Ronaldo 2
    Messi 6


    P.S. Original idea was to check all (penalty) goals and assists but have not the gusto for that right now. I hope this is informative and the original source for these numbers above is readily accessible through the posted links (no magic sleight of hands here).
     
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  9. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #209 Bada Bing, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    Added tackles, crosses, average rating and MoM based on statistics.

    OPTA statistics, since 09-10 in the La Liga and Uefa Champions League El Clasico's.


    Messi - Cronaldo

    12 - 12 Games
    10 - 5 Goals
    39 - 52 Shots

    4 - 1 Assists
    13 - 1 Through balls
    21 - 5 Key passes
    0 - 4 Crosses

    63 - 32 Dribbles

    19 - 2 Tackles
    51 - 36 Fouled

    32 - 29 Dispossessions
    14 - 27 Turnovers

    8 - 0 MoM
    8.66 - 7.25 Average Rating

    The statistics are completely lopsided. Keep in mind that Real Madrid defense concentrated a lot more to Messi than what Barcelona did for Cronaldo.

    So his amazing wing play produced 4 accurate crosses to his team mates in 12 Clasico's. Selfish, average player, playing in a great team.
     
  10. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #210 Bada Bing, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    Cherrypicked few people opinions, possibly just one, from the media that is completely Cronaldo biased nowadays. You only need to check any random lol.com rating, and statistics to see thos. They do this to sell their sites, it creates controversy, fanboys fight, which means more views and money.
     
  11. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Celtic
    Scotland
    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    So what you are saying is people are actually posting on forums/blogs etc misinformation to create controversy and cause arguments.

    Interesting...
     
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  12. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #212 Bada Bing, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    There's a difference, forum post can be much more harmful for the sites ratings, reputation etc. because it stays there to all to see, and they are moderated, comment section gets forgotten as soon as new news come the next day, so it doesn't matter what you write there.

    This is exactly why lol.com moved from forums to comment sections. More power, more money, less honesty.
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #213 PuckVanHeel, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    No. That blog tries to take the average of a few grades. Of course, it's possible to cherry-pick the grades one likes. Mundo Deportivo and Sport.es grades (two openly Barcelona-supporting papers) are, however, also used.

    It's directed towards deaf ears but C. Ronaldo isn't the player with the largest 'tribe' behind him.
     
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  14. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Seems like the rest of the world disagrees:

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/15/twitter-world-cup-tweets-germany-brazil

    The WC evidently means more to the public than any other soccer/sporting/cultural/human/solar system/galaxy event there is. You don't get to change that just because you're cum-stained bedroom poster figure is a rotund failure at the tournament.

    He sucked, full stop. And I would guess it's now too late for him now to reverse the stigma.

    Who considers Argentina 14 a "super" team? Must be the first time I see it described that way.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What type of group stage opponents did C. Ronaldo have in 2010 and 2014?

    In 2012 he did well.
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The general dislike Ronaldo receives in the media for minor things is astonishing. Yes, he does make gestures but take a look at Barca-Bilbao I'd say.
    There are also no stories about him bullying colleagues or freezing out guys. The manager Mourinho has said some nasty things about him, but Mourinho had issues with Ramos and a hoist of other RM players too. He had to overcome adversity and major challenges like you said (not a whole circus around him in his teenager years). Also no stories about messing with charity money or family involved in drug trafficking.

    Football is a very tribal game and therefore he's an easy target. Simple as that.
     
  17. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What's so special about Ivory Coast or North Korea? Ghana and USA are solid teams but they are not Germany either.
     
  18. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #218 JamesBH11, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    super or not? they were the top 4 favorite team to win WC2014 with Brazil Germany and SPain (before WC14 started)

    it seemed there are a lot of "first time" for you? LOL
     
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  19. EdgarAllanPoet

    EdgarAllanPoet Member+

    May 1, 2011
    Hey @PuckVanHeel , can you please post this in the Ronaldo thread I created. I have alot of data there and I'm on a phone so I can't. Great effort by the way.

    I would appreciate it. I'd like to make it an official place where people can find his actual achievements rather lies and propaganda all throughout this forum.
     
  20. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    How they actually play makes them a super team or not. Boy are you ever clueless!
     
  21. EdgarAllanPoet

    EdgarAllanPoet Member+

    May 1, 2011
    This from the guy that sites whoscored who will rank Luis Gustavo ahead of Robben. Lol


    They gave Ronaldo a 10.0 against Elche correct? Lets hear why they don't know what their doing now.
     
  22. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
  23. EdgarAllanPoet

    EdgarAllanPoet Member+

    May 1, 2011
    Well a team may not play well but be made up of super players. You're nitpicking. You know what he's saying.
     
  24. EdgarAllanPoet

    EdgarAllanPoet Member+

    May 1, 2011
    Bada Bing does it everyday on 3 or 4 forums. Probably has a few blogs.

    Oh just got it..LMAO Good One!!! Rep.
     

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