Minor change here regarding Pires consequently too (hardly worth adjusting but doing it for completeness - likewise I remember if extending to 50 names then McManaman from 94/95 was making the list for adjusted ratings, and so he'd drop slightly down in that too). I'm just adjusting within my original post, as quoted, rather than copying and pasting this again.
I'd never have Steve McManaman anywhere near the top 100 of all time .. He was just a very good player and kinda different from the rest .. I recall watching him being completely overawed at Real Madrid .... after nearly every pass he made he was apologising for it not being just perfect
If we're talking about an overall all-time list (as per the original theme of this thread) then no neither would I. But regarding the Premier League only then I certainly would do. And these DBS Calcio ratings I'm posting are just for the Premier League of course - the thread is a bit multi-purpose and hard to follow now I suppose, but hopefully the info is good to see for various readers anyway. His peak as a player, was for me, in the mid 90s at Liverpool indeed. He did play pretty well in some Champions League games for Real Madrid I recall though, as more of a central (as opposed to attacking) midfielder than he was before.
I thought it could be interesting to look at the correlation (or otherwise) between basic stats (goals+assists) as on the Premierleague.com website, (https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/goal_assist?se=210) and the top average ratings for English league players on DBS Calcio.... Top 20 adjusted ratings for Premier League excluding the first two seasons (50% rated games required) 1 - Luis Suarez (Liverpool/Uruguay) - 2013/14 - 7.21 (31 gls, 12 assts) 2 - Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal/Spain) - 2009/10 - 7.20 (15 gls, 13 assts) 3 - Kevin De Bruyne (Manchester City/Belgium) - 2017/18 - 7.19 (8 gls, 16 assts) 4= Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2005/06 - 7.12 (10 gls, 5 assts) 4= Frank Lampard (Chelsea/England) - 2009/10 - 7.12 (22 gls, 14 assts) 6= Juan Mata (Chelsea/Spain) - 2012/13 - 7.08 (12 gls, 12 assts) 6= Jamie Vardy (Leicester/England) - 2015/16 - 7.08 (24 gls, 6 assts) 8 - Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United/Portugal) - 2006/07 - 7.06 (17 gls, 8 assts) 9= Keith Gillespie (Newcastle/Northern Ireland) - 1997/98 - 7.04 (4 gls, 2 assts) 9= Robert Pires (Arsenal/France) - 2001/02 - 7.04 (9 gls, 15 assts) 9= Wayne Rooney (Manchester United/England) - 2009/10 - 7.04 (26 gls, 3 assts) 12= Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2003/04 - 7.02 (4 gls, 7 assts) 12= Yohann Cabaye (Newcastle/France) - 2013/14 - 7.02 (7 gls, 2 assts) 14 - David Silva (Manchester City/Spain) - 2017/18 - 7.01 (9 gls, 11 assts) 15= Patrick Vieira (Arsenal/France) - 2002/03 - 7.00 (3 gls, 3 assts) 15= Eden Hazard (Chelsea/Belgium) - 2016/17 - 7.00 (16 gls, 5 assts) 17= Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2008/09 - 6.99 (16 gls, 9 assts) 17= Didier Drogba (Chelsea/Ivory Coast) - 2009/10 - 6.99 (29 gls, 10 assts) 19= Dennis Bergkamp (Arsenal/Netherlands) - 1997/98 - 6.97 (16 gls, 11 assts) 19= Riyad Mahrez (Leicester/Algeria) - 2015/16 - 6.97 (17 gls, 11 assts) Some players listed did play under 30 league games: Gillespie, Cabaye, Vieira, Bergkamp I think it was....
Pires played less than 30 league games I should've said too in 01/02 of course. Continuing using the names in the post below (McManaman's 94/95 adjusted rating went down very slightly as I mentioned (Keane and Giggs in 01/02 will be other examples of the same, plus Ince and Shearer from 94/95 too obviously), but he'd still be in the same ballpark and these adjusted ratings are just a 'different' estimate to add to the outright ratings anyway, to try to account for potential differing trends (from perhaps differing sources too) in ratings standards between seasons/eras - all the players with extremely high outright ratings are getting included for this goals+assists analysis anyway) Phillipe Albert - 1995/96 - (4 gls, 1 assts)* Thomas Gravesen - 2004/05 - (4 gls, 6 assts)* Luis Suarez - 2012/13 - (23 gls, 5 assts) David Silva - 2013/14 - (7 gls, 9 assts)* Dimitri Payet - 2015/16 - (9 gls, 12 assts) Sergio Aguero - 2011/12 - (23 gls, 8 assts) Thierry Henry - 2003/04 - (30 gls, 6 assts) Eden Hazard - 2014/15 - (14 gls, 9 assts) Steve McManaman - 1994/95 (7 gls, 8 assts) Sol Campbell - 1998/99 - (6 gls, 0 assts) Cristiano Ronaldo - 2007/08 - (31 gls, 6 assts) Thierry Henry - 2002/03 - (24 gls, 20 assts) Mikel Arteta - 2006/07 - (9 gls, 9 assts) Wayne Rooney - 2007/08 - (12 gls, 10 assts) Wayne Rooney - 2013/14 - (17 gls, 10 assts) Sasa Curcic - 1995/96 - (4 gls, 7 assts)* Gianfranco Zola - 1996/97 - (8 gls, 9 assts)* Kieron Dyer - 2000/01 - (5 gls, 5 assts)* Roy Keane - 2001/02 - (3 gls, 5 assts)* Wayne Rooney - 2005/06 - (16 gls, 9 assts) Paul Ince - 1994/95 - (5 gls, 2 assts) Tony Adams - 1998/99 - (1 gl, 0 assts) Alan Shearer - 1994/95 - (34 gls, 13 assts) Alan Shearer - 1995/96 - (31 gls, 7 assts) Benito Carbone - 1998/99 - (8 gls, 6 assts) Roy Keane - 1999/00 - (5 gls, 1 asst)* Carlos Tevez - 2009/10 - (23 gls, 7 assts) Patrick Vieira - 1997/98 - (2 gls, 4 assts) Adam Lallana - 2013/14 - (9 gls, 6 assts) Ryan Giggs - 2001/02 - (7 gls, 12 assts)* Patrick Vieira - 2003/04 - (3 gls, 4 assts)* Aaron Ramsey - 2013/14 - (10 gls, 8 assts)* Roy Keane - 2002/03 - (0 gls, 1 asst)* Several of those played under 30 league games too so I've tried to mark such players with a *. Shearer in 94/95 actually played as many as 42, with McManaman playing 40 that season too. A few defenders appear too, while obviously it's just a quantitative analysis so doesn't reflect individual quality of goals/assists or show penalties scored or set-piece assists separately. No DBS Calcio ratings are available for the first two PL seasons, to re-iterate, too, so that's why there are no players from those seasons in the list.
Adding some more from my own vaguely estimated attempt at my top 50 choices (before De Bruyne and possibly Salah entered the fray last season) - I think I was considering all domestic competitions if I remember correctly though but the stats are just for the league. Leaving out the extras, all defensive players, but Petrescu did have as many as 8 assists during 95/96 league games. So there are a number of notable 92/93 and 93/94 entries that DBS Calcio don't have ratings for among these of course too.... Eric Cantona - 1993/94 - (18 gls, 12 assts) Thierry Henry - 2004/05 - (25 gls, 14 assts) Jurgen Klinsmann - 1994/95 - (20 gls, 10 assts) Dennis Bergkamp - 1996/97 - (12 gls, 9 assts)* Alan Shearer - 1993/94 - (31 gls, 4 assts) Ryan Giggs - 1993/94 - (13 gls, 7 assts) Alexis Sanchez - 2014/15 - (16 gls, 8 assts) Thierry Henry - 2005/06 - (27 gls, 8 assts) Ruud Gullit - 1995/96 - (3 gls, 4 assts) David Beckham - 1998/99 - (6 gls, 11 assts) Yaya Toure - 2013/14 - (20 gls, 9 assts) Juninho - 1996/97 - (12 gls, 8 assts) Eric Cantona - 1992/93 - (15 gls, 16 assts) Gareth Bale - 2012/13 - (21 gls, 4 assts) Steven Gerrard - 2007/08 - (11 gls, 8 assts) Robert Pires - 2003/04 - (14 gls, 8 assts) Frank Lampard - 2004/05 - (13 gls, 18 assts) David Ginola - 1995/96 - (5 gls, 8 assts) Peter Schmeichel - 1992/93 - (0 gls, 1 asst) Fernando Torres - 2007/08 - (24 gls, 4 assts) Ricardo Carvalho - 2005/06 - (1 gl, 1 asst)* Dwight Yorke - 1998/99 - (18 gls, 11 assts) Matt Le Tissier - 1994/95 - (19 gls, 15 assts) Steve McManaman - 1995/96 - (6 gls, 15 assts) Andrei Kanchelskis - 1993/94 - (6 gls, 6 assts) Lars Bohinen - 1994/95 - (6 gls, 5 assts) Andrei Kanchelskis - 1995/96 - (15 gls, 8 assts) Eden Hazard - 2013/14 - (14 gls, 7 assts) Yaya Toure - 2011/12 - (6 gls, 6 assts) Juan Mata - 2011/12 - (6 gls, 13 assts) Matt Le Tissier - 1993/94 - (25 gls, 9 assts) Ruud van Nistelrooy - 2001/02 - (23 gls, 4 assts) Robin van Persie - 2011/12 - (30 gls, 9 assts) Michael Owen - 1997/98 - (18 gls, 10 assts) I think the final thing I might do regarding this is check how the top assisters from each season, as listed on Premierleague.com, scored with DBS Calcio's average ratings sources.
Don’t you think Robert pires is a bit overrated in your list(was he a tier above David ginola who didn’t even finish in your top 20) Did alexis Sanchez reach a higher peak in the premier league than Eden Hazard I know many arsenal fans would like to believe this but as far as I’m concerned hazards highest level is higher than any current EPL player without exception Admittedly he isn’t consistent enough but he had periods of form I can recall at least the first half of 2014/15 were there was a genuine case for him being top 5 player in Europe Sanchez never reached those heights(and definitely not in the premier league) If this is based on a average score of dbs calcio ratings than fair enough. However If we are looking at this objectively it is completely criminal to have Jürgen klinsmann ahead of any prime season of CR/Henry/bergkamp,cantona 93/94 and 95/96 Luis Suarez 2013/14 As a one year peak at Spurs even Gareth bale was a higher quality player in 12/13 then the goal poacher klinsmann These are just observations btw and a friendly critique(you can take it or leave it your choice) I know you are a Nottingham forest fan but I noticed a disproportionate amount of Arsenal players to Manchester United ones which does not reflect the reality of the success of experienced by both clubs There is starling omission of players like Andy Cole and vidic who made a huge impact on the premier league era I believe the former is a top 5 all time scorer in PL history and vidic a PFA winner (a rarity for a defender) The inclusion of ruud gullit is interesting even though I’ve never heard of him being touted as some epic PL performer(he was quite old when he came here) those not familar with his exploits in Holland and Italy aren’t even aware that in terms of great players who passed through England he is right at the top(arguably even ahead of Thierry Henry) The fact that such a great player as ruud gullit is frankly never discussed as being a PL great essentially proves that his greatness almost entirely emanates from what he did elsewhere Perhaps he can fit the category of great players who came here past their best(like shevchenco or George weah)
I guess this is my own fault for making my list lol (today it was just convenient to use it to add more players, but I don't want to be 'arrogant' in claiming it's how it should definitely be of course...and meanwhile anyone can have a go themselves if they really wanted). I'd say though, that if you don't recall Gullit (he was a contender for the FWA Player of the Year award) then you wouldn't recall Klinsmann either (he won that award, and he had assists in other comps too to add to his 10 here which is more than CR7 in 07/08 or 06/07 to be fair using this 'narrow' data)? I think both Klinsmann and Sanchez would be good examples where on PL alone, as opposed to all domestic competitions, I'd probably go a bit lower, but they were both really good in the PL for sure. I sort of feel Hazard now has a lot of excellent seasons, but not necessarily one clear one that stands above the rest (this current one could even end up in the equation and interestingly he already has 10 assists). Anyway, I don't want to fall out with you mate, but also don't want to debate any further on this if I'm honest. I know you are entitled to post disagreement though of course, and I hope you appreciate I at least didn't just ignore the post. Of course I'm not going to just change my mind on everything on your suggestion though (I guess you knew that though lol) and I was certainly old enough to watch plenty in the 90s even if it's true that what we can watch is still limited to some degree (unlike in World Cups).
Eden hazard had standout career defining seasons during which he propelled his team to premier league titles Twice alexis Sanchez never got close to doing this (not even once) There is a pretty strong case for Eden hazard being one of the top 10 most technically gifted players of the PL era(a player who at his very best has borne comparisons to a top 10 all timer in Cristiano Ronaldo and also to potentially the greatest player of all time Lionel Messi) He is literally that good and with some added consistency and impact in the champions league he’d certainly be pushing that top bracket of greatest ever premier league players You’ve said your a bit old school/retro and potentially biased towards 90s players but it’s always important that we remain objective with these kind of lists Every era has it’s great players and there is no way the standout PL attacker over the past 4-5 years barely scrapes the barrel of top 40 greatest premier league seasons Regarding the Gullit award(or being in contention) No one was going to take that FWA award from cantona who returned from a 15 month suspension and went on a legendary scoring run which won United the title Every year there are players in contention that is the nature of individual awards It doesn’t mean that gullit even stood a remote chance of taking the award of cantona In actuality he probably just made up the numbers Here in this source from 1996( the independent )listing cantona as the 2nd best player behind Alan Shearer and ruud gullit In 19th place https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-simply-the-best-1316430.html?amp (Alan Shearer most probably received extra points by the British press due to his great Euro 96 performance)
Maybe I can help a bit carlito. I think Ginola was aesthetically more pleasing and over longer distances a better dribbler, but Pires was certainly the more productive player (by miles) although Pires also played in a better team, better organization obviously. Ginola in his stand-out season came to 13 G+A (no penalties) while Pires in his two stand-out seasons had (almost) the double of that (24 G+A in 2001-02). Of course many good French players have played in the EPL, just check the player of the month etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_Player_of_the_Month In general I think Hazard is the better footballer (with emphasis on football) and has also showed more at international level (against the good opponents), but I might be slightly biased here. Hazard his weakness is of course his production though he's now having a season above 10 goals and 10 assists. Alexis at his best had 24 goals (2 penalties, only 3.4 shots per match) and 10 assists in 38 games (the only season he played all 38), with also some good dribbling and other stats (through balls were 50% lower as usual though). For an attacker he worked hard defensively and this was not really a vintage Arsenal side either. So I can see a case Alexis had a higher peak so far (might change this season, or put on par) while Hazard is overall the better footballer with a more nuanced contribution. Hazard had some seasons/phases where Chelsea played a lot better with him in, even if he doesn't score or assist that much (or tracks back). *) Alexis won of course two Copa Americas, but would personally claim Hazard has shone more despite not winning. Alexis was/is however the better UCL performer, also for Arsenal. Maybe, but one has to consider here Bale fired a ridiculous 5 shots per game. 165 shots in total, 21 goals. I have seen some pieces wondering whether this 'shoot on sight' really helped his team, and argument can be made they were as good/better without him. This has I think two big reasons: 1) Arsenal, when they were competitive, was the choice of the 'neutrals'. For their football and maybe also for other reasons. Arsenal prevented the league became a one team affair. 2) Arsenal was top heavy in their attackers while Manchester United was more defined by their midfield. I'm not saying Yorke wasn't a good player (imho he was, technically better as Cole too), but attackers have a 'plus' in things like this and rightly so. Gullit ended 2nd in the FWA voting in 1995-96, behind Cantona who had 14 goals (4 pens) and 10 assists (which wasn't that great compared to his rivals in the same season). You also have to make a difference between the season and the year, I think. Of course his short spell leads to differing assessments. E.g. FourFourTwo in 2008 placed him 12th among 'greatest imports' (which includes pre-1992) and 96th in 2018. I also think his 'charisma' kind of overinflated him in his own time.
I seem to think my Hazard position was provisional and I was open to moving him into top 30 for 2016/17 (it was before the end of the season when I made the post) but anyway yeah it can be people would select one of his seasons above any of Alexis Sanchez's, but I did feel Sanchez was both clutch and influential throughout that season over league and cups. Anyway, yeah, I really don't want to get further into it now (hope that is not a problem) but again I understand you have the right to express your views Carlito - I just really wasn't looking to get into long arguments today and feel that not everything has to be argued about until the point of agreement (which won't come anyway most likely). I wasn't wanting my list to be more a word of authority than anybody else's choices though (and likewise the DBS Calcio average ratings are not gospel of course but just the result of the ratings handed out after each game). I felt since the assists listed seem to be pretty reliable (seeming similar to OPTA lately maybe? - which should suggest the earlier ones are similarly reliable) maybe those posts would be worthwhile an interesting, since assist data isn't quite so readily available as goals scored data. Not today, but I will come back and look at the DBS ratings for the top assisters (maybe top 4 each season or something) at some stage. I'm not sure it's possible to do the same for Serie A and other leagues though, even for the same period (at least not without going through a lot of YouTube videos!).
Do we really have to resort to advanced statistics(opta assists) When it is clear that one player is generally a more impactful player(bale vs klinsmann) I can’t believe we are comparing goals+assists between a WF and a tap in striker as klinsmann Taking about goals Many of the strikes scored by bale required no service He was belting them from crazy distances,his FKs were on point I remember his season like it was the other day.it must of felt like an avalanche with bale running at defences a complete monster he was Despite the Early promise and potential I still consider 12/13 as his best season In other seasons he had more iconic moments but in terms of impact+consistency I can’t recall him having a better run of form (except 15/16 when returned from injury and was possibly one of one of the top 5 performers in La Liga and one of the stars of Euro 16)
Well stats can help to provide some clarity about someone's role and contribution. That stats are not perfect, yeah sure. I think Klinsmann wasn't exactly a technical maestro or polished player (Bale is?), but his 20 goals and 10 assists (in 41 games) profile suggests he had a relatively varied role. Of course most of those assists weren't something special but most pure strikers have three or four times more goals as assists. I'd say Klinsmann was the more impactful player, although one can argue it is 'easier' to have that effect for a worse and thinner team. I don't see how the actual evidence/facts point at Bale as more impactful or important but maybe I'm missing something. He was more like a cherry on the cake than the cake itself. Bale was a rather unusual type of 'wing forward'. Check his heat map. Remember: 21 goals and only 4 assists. Really unusual profile. Klinsmann was clearly better in the two domestic cups, whereas Bale could play (and performed reasonably well) in Europe, the Europa League. I agree a relatively low amount of his goals required clear-cut service. I don't think his free kicks "were on point". Three free kick goals in 40 attempts is okay but not above the ordinary. Bale had enormous energy and thrust (the not-so-great book by Mandis on Real Madrid has a passage where it is revealed they bought him for his many high-intensity runs and physical characteristics; I might copy this) but his dribbling was rather unusual. 'Only' 1.8 successful dribbles per 90 minutes at a quite low 42% success rate (with generally space to work with). That places the blazing runs in perspective. Again, he had a particular shoot-on-sight and dribble-on-sight style. Yes I agree 2012-13 remains his standout season. A more convincing contribution (for the coach) as what he later showed at Real Madrid. Five successive Real Madrid coaches have heard from the president he should play but is then on-and-off, flickering and fading at equal measure. Also played 1100 more league minutes in 2012-13 as all league seasons post-2015. He works better when the team can play on the counter, which Real Madrid did more structurally and rehearsed before Zidane came.
Including wide assists (which is a useful stat for a player who takes as many shots as bale) Gareth bale 21 goals+9 assists in 31 matches 43% of his goals were scored from outside the box(scored a few solo strikes aswell) We don’t have a heat map for klinsmann(I’m assuming the flanks and midfield would be hardly occupied at least as compared to bale) bale isn’t close to being a technical maestro but surely klinsmann is even further away I’m trying to be neutral here even though klinsmann is a player I genuinely have disdain for seriously I just don’t see how he was a higher quality player than many strikers who have passed through the EPL Just to clarify Being a PFA winner in and of itself isn’t proof of being at some great level Gareth bale 10/11 and Ryan Giggs 08/09 were amongst the worst ever particularly bale who became overrated for a performance that wasn’t even in the premier league(vs inter Milan)
Making a start now: As a bonus for this season 2018/19 so far (assists standings and ratings can both change a fair bit yet potentially) - current DBS Calcio rating and position in brackets: Top Assisters Eden Hazard (10) - 6.78 (6th) Leroy Sane (9) - 6.76 (8th) Raheem Sterling (9) - 6.71 (10th) Ryan Fraser (9) - 6.31 (56th) And another bonus (DBS Calcio ratings unavailable for these seasons) - I'm just listing the top assisters from 92/93 and 93/94: 1992/93 - 1) Eric Cantona (16), 2= Darren Anderton, Matt Le Tissier, Niall Quinn (11) 1993/94 - 1) Andy Cole (13), 2) Eric Cantona (12), 3= Brian Deane, Ruel Fox, Chris Sutton (11) So starting the main comparison in 1994/95: Top Assisters Matt Le Tissier (15) - 6.27 (52nd) Darren Anderton (14) - 6.15 (98th) Alan Shearer (13) - 6.80 (3rd) Bryan Roy (11) - 6.33 (41st) Ruel Fox (11) - 6.32 (42nd) Andy Hinchcliffe (11) - 6.26 (58th) Ryan Giggs (11) - 6.17 (85th)
I should clarify that the DBS Calcio positions shown are as per what appears on the 'Media Voto' results page. So cases like the ones I posted recently - Dennis Wise in this 94/95 season having the top rating but only 18 games, and Benito Carbone playing 13 games each with Derby and Middlesbrough in 01/02 for a combined average that puts him in the top 10 - are not reflected while they have been when I've been listing the averages overall. So for example Shearer has the 4th best average rating, rather than 3rd, if including Wise. The numbers are only to give a general idea about how these top assisters were judged compared to players on the whole, game by game according to the sources DBS Calcio used (English newspapers/media). I'm not sure how quick I'll get through all seasons for this to be honest and it could be several days or weeks even, but adding the next 4 now: 1995/96 Top assisters Steve McManaman (15) - 6.74 (7th) Stan Collymore (11) - 6.30 (40th) Eric Cantona (10) - 6.49 (16th) Dwight Yorke (10) - 6.24 (51st) Ian Woan (10) - 6.19 (77th) John Barnes (10) - 6.00 (112th) 1996/97 Top assisters Eric Cantona (12) - 5.99 (116th) Neal Ardley (11) - 6.04 (100th) Gianfranco Zola (9) - 6.72 (the top rating, as shown earlier in the thread and with over 50% (22) games, although not shown on media results page view due to joining the league from Parma in November) Dennis Bergkamp (9) - 6.56 (4th) Andy Hinchcliffe (9) - 5.81 (not listed - 18 games played) Gary McAllister (9) - 5.60 (211th) 1997/98 Top assisters David Beckham (13) - 5.98 (124th) Dennis Bergkamp (11) - 6.94 (2nd) Michael Owen (10) - 6.56 (12th) Eyal Berkovic (10) - 6.51 (15th) Dion Dublin (10) - 6.12 (82nd) Steve Guppy (10) - 6.10 (85th) Teddy Sheringham (10) - 5.77 (188th) 1998/99 Top assisters Dennis Bergkamp (13) - 6.29 (42nd) Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (13) - 6.15 (76th) Dwight Yorke (11) - 6.40 (not listed as played 1 game for Aston Villa but would be just outside top 20 names if included) Steve Guppy (11) - 6.27 (46th) David Beckham (11) - 6.24 (53rd) Eyal Berkovic (11) - 6.23 (57th) So notable things: a few of the same names appearing in consecutive years with varying DBS ratings, and some household names like Beckham and Sheringham in 97/98 being among the top assisters but with low ratings from DBS sources overall.
Adding a couple more for now 1999/00 Top assisters David Beckham (15) - 6.48 (14th) Nolberto Solano (15) - 6.08 (103rd) Paolo Di Canio (13) - 6.70 (2nd) Ryan Giggs (12) - 6.57 (8th) 2000/01 Top assisters David Beckham (12) - 6.58 (10th) Nolberto Solano (10) - 6.34 (35th) Thierry Henry (9) - 6.45 (20th) Vladimir Smicer (9) - 6.16 (76th) Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (9) - 5.94 (148th)
Continuing a bit more.... 2001/02 Top Assisters Robert Pires (15) - 7.05 (1st) Ryan Giggs (12) - 6.82 (3rd) Dennis Bergkamp (12) - 6.46 (18th) Laurent Robert (11) - 6.44 (would have been just outside top 20 if listed) 2002/03 Top Assisters Thierry Henry (20) - 6.86 (2nd) Ryan Giggs (10) - 6.10 (99th) Dennis Bergkamp (9) - 6.22 (69th) David Beckham (8) - 6.62 (8th) Thomas Gravesen (8) - 6.54 (12th) Eyal Berkovic (8) - 6.44 (22nd) Geremi (8) - 6.42 (25th) 2003/04 Top Assisters Muzzy Izzet (14) - 6.70 (8th) Paolo Di Canio (12) - 6.20 (around 80th if listed) Brett Emerton (11) - 6.37 (39th) Ryan Giggs (11) - 6.27 (64th)
I agree this was weak but all of the mentioned players & associated seasons are above that. For ex. Bale in 2010-11 had only 7 goals and 1 assist in all domestic games... (two assists if you take the wide criteria)... and was again not a great dribbler or something else you could argue for. Klinsmann or Bale in his 2012-13 guise was way above this. No problem Here it is, after saying Ronaldo and Messi are among the ten fastest players in the world and "sprint distances have a meaningful impact on the number of goals." "When Real Madrid was evaluating Bale, two of the technical things that attracted them to him was his age and speed. Bale ran around 12 kilometers (7.5 miles) per game, which is a little above average. But what was remarkable was that more than one kilometer was at a speed near his maximum, which is around twice the distance of the average player."
How would you rate Gareth bale in his prime /or at his best compared to oleh blokhin? I noticed they had a very similar performance card on pes stats and they are similar in terms of positional sense(WF)and athleticism. bale is stronger on the ball but blokhin is potentially more skilled (perhaps as Thierry Henry) but the difference cannot be that much surely
Transfermarkt has its flaws and market value is not the same as quality (or only defined by that), but interesting to see.
Continuing the comparison for Premier League top assisters, and DBS Calcio ratings with a couple more before the weekend.... 2004/05 Top Assisters Frank Lampard (18) - 6.55 (12th) Thierry Henry (14) - 6.66 (6th) Dennis Bergkamp (12) - 6.28 (59th) Stewart Downing (11) - 6.20 (79th) 2005/06 Top Assisters Didier Drogba (11) - 6.35 (41st) Jose Antonio Reyes (10) - 6.27 (61st) Wayne Rooney (9) - 6.84 (2nd) Luis Boa Morte (9) - 6.47 (18th)
I had a spreadsheet program from Lotus, Improv, an object oriented multi dimensional system, that worked until windows 95 or 98. Looking at the cross references in here that programm would be a joy for some of you guys. With a click and a drag you could show a completely different relationship. So if any of you to whom it applies has a very functional win 95/win98 computer resting under some dust, it might be very interesting to have a look in it. Just a suggestion.
That doesn't apply to me lol, as I tend to use the computers until they don't work, and I probably didn't own my own yet, when Win 95 and 98 were in common use anyway! Adding 4 more Premier League assists/DBS Calcio rating comparisons for 06/07 to 09/10 now: 2006/07 Top Assisters Cesc Fabregas (11) - 6.77 (4th) Wayne Rooney (11) - 6.51 (23rd) Frank Lampard (10) - 6.42 (35th) Mikel Arteta (9) - 6.92 (2nd) Dimitar Berbatov (9) - 6.71 (8th) 2007/08 Top Assisters Cesc Fabregas (17) - 6.57 (15th) Ashley Young (14) - 6.72 (6th) Wayne Rooney (10) - 6.94 (2nd) Gareth Barry (10) - 6.69 (7th) 2008/09 Top Assisters Robin van Persie (10) - 6.61 (8th) Frank Lampard (10) - 6.61 (10th) Steven Gerrard (9) - 7.04 (1st) Stephen Ireland (9) - 6.56 (14th) Dimitar Berbatov (9) - 6.05 (124th) 2009/10 Top Assisters Frank Lampard (14) - 7.66 (2nd) Cesc Fabregas (13) - 7.76 (1st) James Milner (12) - 6.74 (30th) Didier Drogba (10) - 7.52 (4th)
2010/11 Top Assisters Nani (14) - 6.54 (22nd) Didier Drogba (13) - 6.61 (16th) Cesc Fabregas (11) - 6.66 (11th) Leighton Baines (11) - 6.63 (13th) Wayne Rooney (11) - 6.34 (52nd) Andrey Arshavin (11) - 5.77 (220th) 2011/12 Top Assisters David Silva (15) - 6.74 (10th) Juan Mata (13) - 6.83 (4th) Antonio Valencia (13) - 6.67 (13th) Emmanuel Adebayor (11) - 6.38 (45th) Alexandre Song (11) - 6.09 (132nd) 2012/13 Top Assisters Juan Mata (12) - 7.09 (1st) Santi Cazorla (11) - 6.75 (6th) Eden Hazard (11) - 6.55 (14th) Wayne Rooney (10) - 6.57 (12th) Theo Walcott (10) - 6.30 (39th) 2013/14 Top Assisters Steven Gerrard (13) - 6.95 (7th) Luis Suarez (12) - 7.41 (1st) Wayne Rooney (10) - 7.08 (4th) Rickie Lambert (10) - 6.46 (23rd)