Best football players of all time

For your answer:
no need to count up to 1000 goals for Pele!

Pele at Copa
with 8goals+2ass/6 games in COPA59: 1 goal tied to Argentina (1-1), 2 goals win in 3-0, 3goals win in 4-1 , and 1 goal in 2-2 tied to Peru.
Contribute 6/6 games with 4 win/tying gaols = 100%

Pele at WC:
1goal+2ass in 4-1 win WC70 final, 2goals winner in 5-2 WC58 final, 3goals in 5-2 win France 58, 1 win goal 1-0 vs Wales ...
3goals+2ass in 2 finals
Contribute in 10/10 games =100%

Pele at Intercontinental cup:
3 winner goals in 5-2 2nd leg vs Benfica
2 tying goals in 3-2 win 1st leg vs Benfica
= total 5goals in 8-4 win OK?
contribute in 2/2 games =100%

===================================

in those 3 most important Tourneys ... Let's see if CR7 could score 20% of Pele goals in same scenario?
Ouff ... CR7 could only trash weaker teams in weaker competitions

 

I can see where you are coming from with your opinion of CR7, when i first saw him as a youngster i thought he was something special.. and he is.. Although his style is different now. Less tricks and stepovers.
He was brilliant in the premier league for united. He scored loads of goals . I think playing in england before he played in spain made it easier for him in spanish football. I believe the premiership is a tougher more demmanding league than la liga . But cr7 was player of the year in england. Theres no denying he is a great player.

So why do you think he is so unimpressive in international tournaments ?

 

Which is why I think he is "most probably" amongst the Top 20 best players of all time -- that is a massive compliment or dinstinction for CR7. The problem here is that if I don't think that CR7 belongs somewhere amongst the Top 3 best players of all time, you will say that I am a "CR7 hater" which is far from the truth.

Yeah but 3 goals in 5 games is quite a lot, isn't it? I mean, you have about 38 La Liga games, and if he is scoring three goals every five games, that means he will have about 24 goals in La Liga alone bu the end of the season -- seriously, you think a player who scores 24 goals in La Liga (not including his Champions League goals) is a "set up" man? Bullshit.

Your claim looks all the more erroneous, when you consider that in the last 5 games, Messi has 5 or 6 assists to his name, on top of his 3 goals. A few of those assists Messi could have easily scored himself, but he didn't -- you see what I'm trying to argue here? Providing an assist in a situation in which you could have easily scored a goal yourself, will logically decrease your "goals per game" stat, but does it make any difference at all in terms of "team achievement"? No.

Case in point, again, as you claim, CR7 is scoring like no one has ever done so, and all he has to show for it is *one* La Liga title and *one" Champions League title, in the last FIVE seasons of football -- sorry, but him scoring like no other before him does not appear to be translating into actual results for his team...

Do you want to know why? Because scoring about 15+ penalty kick goals per season, choosing to score a goal yourself when the more reliable choice would have been providing a simple/easy assist, will indeed increase your "goals per game" stat but will not necessarily translate into actually better team performance.

It means that if I already have Luis Suarez, I will prefer Iniesta over CR7, because Iniesta will complement better with Luis Suarez than CR7 would. It means that Football is a collective game where the premise is not merely to score a lot of goals and then fail to win most of the titles that you could've potentially won, Football is a collective game where the premise is to beat most of your opponents either by outscoring them or by outplaying them -- "outplaying them" seems to be a lot more effective than simply "outscoring them", which is why players like Iniesta or Xavi are more valuable than CR7 when you already have good goal scorers on your team.

Yes, because in a globalized culture that is obsessed with sex and appearance, Messi is definitely the player who will get the nod from the media.

If CR7 got to be that "lazy" and still produce 3 goals + 6 assists per every five games... then yes... I can certainly see a lot of people who would claim that Ronaldo is a genius. But that's not going to happen with CR7, because CR7's main strength is his work ethic and his work rate, if it wasn't for his tremendous work rate and fitness you can say goodbye to 40% of his open play goals. Messi can get away with being lazy; CR7 cannot. That being said, if you still want to believe that "the media" praises Messi over CR7 due to some conspiracy theory, even when CR7 is the obviously more appealing tabloid player, you can go right ahead.

 

why ask so direct as if he can answer!

Let me help him:
- Real team value 2014 = 600mils
- Portugal team worth 264mils
So by rule of thumb, CR7 played close to 3 times better in Real galacticos is normal

 

Here is a proof (graphics) of Messi and CR7 goals in their last 3 seasons =
One can count how many were "valuable" and howmany were "consolation"

The distribution of their goals has been notably similar too in the past three seasons. Both have scored 35 goals to give their teams the lead in games, while Ronaldo has marginally more goals as equalisers and for two-goal cushions.




The suggestion is that both players are as integral to their teams as each other. Neither player appears to inflate his goal tally on unimportant goals – something we can quantify using Soccer Statistically’s Outcome Probability Calculator.

 

I think the top 10 scorers list, and top 10 defenders list are both much more difficult, for me at least, to have a go at as compared to dribblers and creators.

For scorers: Well, there is always the argument that the goal tallies should show us who the best scorers are but that is of course complicated by various rule changes and different conditions through football history. I can't really say that Josef Bican definitely belongs in such a list but I can't say that he doesn't either. I tend to think considering all aspects of being able to score goals, but with most focus on finishing and movement then I'd put Pele as number 1. There is also the question of if longevity is a factor here - if not Brazilian Ronaldo probably makes the top 10, considering his advantages in the 'making chances out of little for himself' factor. But if so, then Cristiano is the prime candidate named Ronaldo. Omitting both, and Bican, I'd possibly include these 9 off the top of my head (again focusing with most weight on finishing and goalscorers instinct of being in the right place, and considering NT level as a factor too):
Gerd Muller, Ferenc Puskas, Romario, Alfredo Di Stefano, Hugo Sanchez, Eusebio, Lionel Messi, Marco van Basten, Jimmy Greaves/Gary Lineker.
(Might have missed some as did it pretty quick in the end).

As for defending I guess we mean outright defending and not who the best players were overall playing in centra defence. Probably being able to keep possession in own half is a factor. Baresi, and Moore probably too would still be up there but as a pure defender Cannavaro possibly right near the top and I'm guessing Figueora perhaps too.

 

Sandor Kocsis would be up there for pure goalscoring too I should think, but had a better record at NT level actually. Jurgen Klinsmann considering era maybe but still only in certain years really. Andriy Shevchenko ditto (better goal sense than Klinsmann I think, but less acrobatic and agile). So maybe that top 10 wouldn't be altered by these names.

Anyway yeah Pele for number 1 I'd say.

 

I think I agree with this list Only change I'd like to make is leaving out Romario and include Ronaldo instead (who I'd rate on a similar level as MvB as far as scoring (club) goals is concerned).

 

Thank you for showing this. Thus:

• It isn't true that he scores a lot of meaningless goals (compared with the goalscorer of the only peer club in the league)
• It isn't true either that he is a big game flop (compared to the goalscorer at the club of similar quality). http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/best-football-players-of-all-time.2011432/page-3#post-31161259

 

Thanks, and I can understand Zico being there yeah (I know Puck said he agrees pretty much with my list but I remember he also thought he was right up their for shooting technique IIRC).

 

Yes, I think though I was told it was all aspects of scoring goals to be considered (and aspects that helped give them more chances, like being able to score when picking the ball up in deep positions) I did focus mostly on actual finishing above everything (capability, variety and consistency) along with positioning and awarenesss (also maybe 'selfishness' to an extent - they aren't mutually exclusive categories but the best assisters, as opposed to creators, and best scorers might make different choices to each other in and around the box).

So, I think as a pure finisher Romario is up there. Also Hugo Sanchez even though I don't think of him necessarily as one of the 100 best players - thinking through other players that I do think of as such, at least for pure finishing I don't think I need to put any above him - Just Fontaine surely benefitted from fluent running for example.

 

Correct.

How about Platini?

I think Ronaldo was a better scorer as Romario (peak form) because Ronaldo scored his goals for the NT against tougher opponents. Dearman once made a good overview about that (I don't value his rankings much but overviews like that are very insightful). And in European Cup the ratio is similar: 20 in 36 for Romario vs 36 in 72 games for Ronaldo. But at his peak fame season (1993-94) Romario didn't do that well in Europe; 2 goals in 10 games.

But anyway, mostly I agree with your ideas.

 

I also think I wasn't sure if longevity was a factor for best scorers so I erred away from those who I might consider during one or two seasons - Ronaldo included (and possibly Fontaine too judging by his career story but it's very difficult without much footage outside the World Cup).

Of course, if todays era seems more conducive to goals, the 1950's was generally moreso - Fontaine, Gunnar Nordahl etc probably racked up more then than if they'd played a bit later but of course there were still reasons they scored more than other players of their time.

 

Yes, Platini as a 'shooter' anyway would be up with the best I think.

And yeah Ronaldo was (in his peak, but also in his revival phase) surely a very capable scorer.

 

Not to defend my idol, but any list of best scorers that hasn't Romario in the top 10 above is not worthy of being taken serious. Either you forgot about him or you just have not seen much of him.

@leadleader

 

Ironically he won top scorer of UCL twice in his pre-peak years. Just wanted to bring that to your attention.

 

well that was your choice!

Let me tell you this:
1- Romario should be there ABSOLUTELY

2- no way CR7 was a better scorer than Romario and Ronaldo. Even Messi was NOT!
Ronaldo got 0.7GPG whole career at club level (across 5 different leagues) and 1 goal/ 3-4 shots
CR7 was accumulating his goals tally thanks to the weak liga ... but his is 1goal/8-10shots
Let say if CR7 will continue his longevity of 4,5 more years ... I am not sure he will ever get > 0.7GPG career!

Similarly to Romario (very high GPG even with 800goals scored) and his accuracy was close to Ronaldo 1goal/4-5shots.

3- Messi in #2 was also over hyped with same reason of CR7 *only vs Weak liga, weak era! His was 1goal/ 6shots
Look a 2nd best scorer (by your standard) 5goals in 14 WC games and 2goals in 8 copa games = nonesense!

 

it doesn't matter if most were in group. The fact is that he outperformed Ronaldo in UCL on all forms, both scoring and reaching UCL final 94. A fact you do not like to talk about.

For instance, you guys mention R9 great performance vs United 03. While ignore the fact that Romario did exactly that performance vs Unite but 3 times! Romario won more matches vs United in UCL then R9 did. But you guys ignore this.

Most R9 fans would eulogise Ronaldo in Europe while the fact is that you can spend a whole day seeking for any official stat list on goal scorers in Champions League and never spot R9 name mentioned not even once! For a so called best striker of the 90, he should have won a few UCL top scorer titles. But he didn't.

 

Thank you very much!

Justice at last. I'm surprised but pleased nonetheless.

 

1 was TRUE (40% or more of his goals came from thrashing games 5-0 tp 8-2 .... (2 gaols or hat tricks and NOT winner) - not saying "meaningless" but surely just "CONSOLATION goals" = no value added to the team (already win that game with 3 points)

2-was FALSE:
I never said, they were flop in big games! However, they were close to be "flop" in WC LOL

 

I always says my BEST SCORERS of all time in historical order: Eusebio, Muller, Van Basten, Romario and Ronaldo
I refuse to category Pele/Puskas/Di Stefano .. as strikers/scorers = they ere NOT.

NOTES:
Sr Freidenreich, Leonidas, Juste Fontaine, Kocsis were also great Scorers, but we lacked a lot of their INFO so I have to ignore them!

Lately, Messi and CR7 will eventually join the group ... and we'll monitor them to rank later on

 

What do you think that was their primary role? Wasn't it to score goals? Almost certainly their assist count fell short of the goals they amassed... How were those people not scorers That's what they mostly did (compared with for ex. creating assists).