Best football players of all time

and you should wonder why those two could NOT even make HALF of their goals for their NT?
and you should wonder who are compete with them in same liga or UCL? Benzama? or Diego Costa ? or Van Persie?

certainly not the Cruyff, Platini nor Puskas Di Stefano there LOL

 

And score man CR7 still has *one* La Liga title and *one* Champions League to show for it, after FIVE seasons of football... How can you not see that scoring goals obviously is not as important as you think it is?

Messi is a "set up man" because he is scoring two goals about every two games, really? LMAO. This is why your opinion about CR7 is basically worthless -- for whatever the reason, you think that scoring six goals (two of them penalty kick goals) in two games is better than scoring two open play goals and providing three open play assists in two games, I don't know why you are so adamant about something that doesn't make any sense whatsoever but... that's clearly what you think.

As for your question -- because Ronaldo and Messi are the best goal scorers of this era. Romario and R9 would both score 30+ goals a season, comfortably, if they played for either Real Madrid or Barcelona. Do you think CR7 scoring 15+ completely redundant goals per season (on top of the actually 20+ or so relevant goals) amounts to anything significant other than setting tacky goal scoring records?

Here's a question for you -- how many penalty kicks does CR7 gets to kick (note: actually scoring the penalty kick is not important to the question) per every five La Liga games?

NOTE

Messi is widely regarded as a significantly better player than CR7, I wonder why that is.

 

Yeah your posts about CR7 aren't exactly "short" -- idiot.

Try to find a way to actually respond when your idiotic points are rightfully scrutinized.

NOTE

Good day, sir.

 

Don't those CR7 posts fit in the "is Cristiano Ronaldo overrated" thread? Please don't let every thread go to this direction.

Anyway, I want to tackle the idea that CR7 is a big game flop;

He has 22 goals (2PK) in the Champions League quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals. In club football, those games are arguably the highest level available (the quarter finals and beyond). 29 games.

His 'rival' Messi has 14 goals in the same stages, 2 of them penalties as well. 25 games.

A few months ago FourFourTwo had an overview of EPL players scoring against the top half of the table. C. Ronaldo scored 44% of his goals against the top half of the table, in the EPL. Thierry Henry 37% and Luis Suarez 26% (no typo).

EDIT: this is of the 2011-12 Primera Division record season (19 april 2012)

http://infostradalive.com/2012/04/19/infographic-breakdown-of-messi-v-ronaldo-goals/

 

Have you plans to put a different top 50 up on this thread stcv too? Maybe when hopefully some more votes come in?
Or would you use the same method as you did on my thread?

I guess the scoring and defending categories are the ones you mentioned not discussed yet now. Is scoring basically finishing and movement, or would it include the ability to pick the ball up in midfield and score, and other things that aid scoring?

 

Maybe you find this interesting (that's for 2011-12).
http://infostradalive.com/2012/04/19/infographic-life-without-messi-and-ronaldo/

 

good luck with that

As for Simeone's statement, it doesn't really come down to it. It's totally subjective which one fills you with emotion more, and it's subjective which one you regard as the better player. Simeone's opinion is just Simeone's opinion.

 

@stcv1974 ... In my opinion maradona and messi were completely different types of players...
I think statistics go out of the window when discussing maradona.. Stats do not show how great maradona really was..
I obviously rate messi among the best, only a madman wouldnt, but i think messi has it easier than maradona ever did.. Maradona inspired a mid table lowly club napoli to be serie a champions when serie a was the toughest league in the world.. Yes napoli had other great players like careca but maradona was the catalyst..
And maradona hardly played in the champions league so i think comparing his european stats with messis is a bit silly...
Messi has been playing in one of the greatest club teams there will ever be and that has no doubt made it easier for him.. And im not a messi hater - and i dont mind if people rate him higher than diego but i prefer maradona.. I think he was a better player at his peak and when people try to compare messi world cup 2014 to maradona 1986 it is ridiculous and unfair on messi..

 

You provided facts, but you can't draw from them a fact that Messi was better than Maradona.

I mean I think he is, but I don't think it's a fact. They are different kinda players in different circumstances in different times. Facts might affect the opinions on which player one regards as the better one, but it still comes down to opinion. For one, it's subjective how one weighs the data. Messi is something Maradona is not, and Maradona was something Messi wasn't. Different people, different opinions.

 

Your truth maybe, but not everyone's truth.

I mean, football is not a sport that enables absolute rankings of players a la running or swimming.

 

The old european cup cannot be compared to the champions league.. There were far less matches..

 

Ronaldo in six years will be a handful of goals behind Raul and Di Stefano for Madrid's all time scoring record which took them 18 years......Ponder that for a minute. He is not just scoring, he is scoring like NO ONE...EVER.

Messi has 3 goals in 5 games. That used to be 8 in 5. That has been the trend for over a year now.

So if you had a choice you would select Hazard over Eusebio....Iniesta over Meuller....Zidane over Puskas....Lmao.

Talk about over simplifying. Messi being considered better has alot more than performance factored in. Maybe a relentless onslaught by the media to praise all things Messi and redefine the criteria for greatness to cater to whatever play Messi had, game, week, month, tournament or year. The World Cup Golden Ball and four Ballon D' Ors being gleaming examples. He is lazy now and barely moves anymore. There are people on this forum and other places claiming its "wise energy conservation"...That used to just be called LAZY. If it were Ronaldo do you envision people saying it is a strength and genius tactic?? There is your question in a nutshell.

 

thanks that's a very good example

I do not have to do much. Just take a simple analysis:
like I said 40% goals of Messi and CR7 in their team are from +2 or more as "consolation goals" or much less meaningful but "pure entertainment" for fans - thanks to the DEPT of 500+ mils that both clubs are willing to pay for top notch players to exchange for such "goals difference"!

Clear example"
1- Messi got 8 hat tricks and CR7 got 7 hat tricks in some 5-0 or 7-1 wins ... to accumulate their goals stats. In a normal game a 1-0 or 2-1 win would be "enough" for same results in points ! Do simple math : 21 to 24goals EXTRA LOL

2- Real team squad = 600+mils, and Barca squad = 600mils. the next most expensive team in liga is barely 150mils and the worst one costed less than one James or one Neymar (60+mils)

 

What about his 6 assists? And if his teammates didn't finish what then? It's a nice pass....That's it. They are not equal. He had a nice pass to Neymar, did you notice Neymars first touch to control it and dribble around the keeper? What if Neymar would have miss played it?


Anyways, 3 goals and 6 assists is nowhere close to actually scoring 12 goals. You want to devalue penalties too eh? Ask Messi about those oh so easy peasy goals. Lol. Without penalties Ronaldo still has 9. Messi has 3...Unfortunately for you however penalties count. Messi himself has had an abundance of them as well over the years no?

Now watch Ronaldo destroy your sh1t club and then come back and tell me how Kroos and Modric's "rhythm dictation" were more vital then Ronaldo's hat-trick.

 

James your money argument is so lame. Its a different era and money is absurd. 80's Milan and 70's Ajax would cost $700 mil today. Damn, what are you not understanding? There are select super rich clubs that leverage prices against one another so someone like James sells for $108 mil..Price doesn't reflect quality.

Take Ozil for example, Madrid got him for $25 mil. He's better than James. You are looking at the price tag and making an assumption that the most expensive means the best.

So point is, Valencia or Athletico could afford $25 mil, not $108. That's why the other teams have such a gap in their rosters. James should be $25-30 mil. With the astronomical market they couldn't ever buy him, but again, that doesn't mean they don't have players at his level, or access to those level players, it means they didn't buy the guy that had a great World Cup and is extremely marketable so now his price quadruples when just last year he was a sub.

Neymar is another example, how many players could come in to Barca and score 15 goals? Dozens of players could do that, but they aren't paying for the dozens who could do it for $30 mil. They are buying the $125 mil most marketable Brazilian who's a megastar. Nowhere in that equation does that mean no other teams have players who can equal Neymar's
production. It's a false equivalency.

 

Something else I find deliciously hilarious. About these so called "Meaningless," "consolation"..."entertainment" goals.

Madrid were up 2-0 on Sociedad. They come back and score 4 winning 4-2. Now had Ronaldo played and scored that 'meaningless' hat-trick at 2-0 would it then have become an amazing performance winning 5-4?

How many times does that "consolation" hat-trick completely destroy the other team's morale eliminating even the hope or will to mount a comeback?

In Madrid's 8-2 win over Depor, Ronaldo scored the 1-0, and the 3-1...which ended up the game winner as Depor brought it to 3-2.

Its so easy to just blindly say "Ronaldo scored a hat-trick in an 8-2 blow-out".... "They would have easily won without him." But in reality two of his goals were vital.

Now, was there some agreement I am unaware of in the olden days where it was forbidden for players to score while being a goal or two up? My point remains, every fuking player in history was afforded the same circumstances as Ronaldo. They all played low table teams and they all definitely had leads and were presented opportunities to score. Nothing has changed here.

And by your definition @JamesBH11, how many of Pele's 82,000 goals were meaningful? LoL