1 Friedel (picked over Keller because of 2002 World Cup play) and of course great career in Premier league 2 Keller 3 Howard 4 Meola
Top ten of those I have seen play: Brad Friedel Kasey Keller Tim Howard Brad Guzan Marcus Hahnemann Tony Meola Nick Rimando Joe Cannon Kevin Hartman Jon Busch Reis, Kennedy, and Perkins were all good too. Would like to see more on Winston DuBose but that's hard to find.
Old man Friedel retired from the NT too early and his popularity level on this board suffers from it (including myself). Not many people on here gave a sh*t when he retired last season, only the ones who were really invested in 02.
Even if you completely ignore anything he ever did in the USMNT, that wouldn't change the fact that he had the greatest career in European soccer that any American ever has.
Absolutely, he was a great GK. But it still doesn't change the fact that when he retired early NT fans looked at other YA's to watch.
Whether Americans were watching him or not, I still think he was the best ever (and I'm a Keller fan).
It's a subjective call, but I'd say that for an American to hold the all-time EPL record for consecutive appearances sort of sets him apart.
Indeed. I think putting forth an argument putting Keller's career ahead of Friedel's is the much more difficult argument to make.
Thanks. I think Howard's ultimate numbers will be more impressive. Friedel's run mostly occurred after he retired from international soccer. BF has 11 seasons of 30+ epl games where 10 of them occurred after his international retirement. TH has 10 seasons of 30+ epl games where he wasn't the US #1 for only a couple and still hasn't retired.
Career length is a big thing for me. Friedel was finally unseated at age 42. He didn't become a starter until he was almost 30, despite doing well for Galatasaray at 24 years old. Howard has noticeably started playing worse since the WC. Before the WC, Everton finished 5th, ended up 11th last year, and are currently sitting 9th. I just can't see Everton sticking with Howard for that long. Maybe he gets dumped to a lower EPL team but the press has been on him for almost a year and a half now. The short of it all, I know the stats may look similar, but Friedel was a better goalkeeper at 42 years old than Howard is at 36.
I can definitely see Howard declining at a younger age as his game relies on athleticism much more. I haven't been watching much epl or paying attention these days. What has been the issue with his game?
Jon Busch is one of the most intense people I have ever met. May not be another player that works harder than him training. Have heard about his training as a pro and know people that use to work with him during HS & college.
His work at Blackburn Rovers was outrageously underrated while he was there. Back in the day, Rovers made Graham Souness look like a brilliant manager. Some very average EPL teams with Friedel, often-injured Damien Duff and a few others really put together several nice seasons in a row. Carling Cup, Europa League appearances, regularly gave the big teams at the time (Manyoo, Arsenal, Liverpool) difficult times.
Does this matter? I thought the discussion was about the best ever USA goalkeeper, not the best ever USMNT goalkeeper. Friedel may have been retired from international soccer, but he wasn't retired from being an American citizen.
Of course Freidel had to work his ass off to even get to the EPL. Liverpool, Newcastle, Sunderland and Nottingham Forest wanted him the '90's but he couldn't get a work permit (turned down 5 times) . Had to spend time with Columbus and Galatasary and several loans before ever getting to Liverpool. Meanwhile with very limited USMNT time, Howard was signed into Manyoo on the first try (SAF and Manyoo pulling strings?), but this was after folks in England noticed the success that US GK's Freidel and Keller were having at Blackburn and Spurs. Your numbers don't really look too deep into what Freidel had to do in the first place.
It's not significant, but I think it does. By retiring from international soccer, it made it easier to focus on club play and extend his career (I thought he said as much). Both club and international performances should be included in the discussion.
Playing for Wales didn't make Ryan Giggs any less of a player. Even if we call 2002 and 2014 WC's a draw, IMO, Keller had the most impressive display in qualifying during (mainly) 2005. Its just a simple fact that club play weighs far more heavier.