The greatest dribbler of all time was probably Garrincha This random guy on twitter counted 62 dribbles for Garrincha in the 1962 world cup. Which would make him the record holder in the history of the world cups with a wide advantage. Maybe he's wrong. Someone would need to review. Most dribbles completed in a single World Cup since 1962 (Opta) :1) Garrincha 1962 : 62 (11.55 p90)*2) Maradona 1986 : 53 (7.57 p90)3) Jairzinho 1970 : 47 (7.99 p90)4) Messi 2014 : 46 (5.98 p90)5) Hazard 2018 : 40 (6.03 p90) pic.twitter.com/9AosXu0tWw— Gasipo (@gasipo_opinions) July 19, 2021 But even if the numbers are considerably lower, the style of football in the past favored wingers having very high numbers of dribbling. Because they only did that on the field. They were triggered in 30 or 40 attacks per game and the only role was to dribble and cross. Also, they didn't face compact teams, with pressure marking in blocks. They were usually 1v1 duels. So it is likely that other wingers of the past have absurd numbers of dribbles, not just Garrincha. (stanley matthews, corbatta, julinho botelho) From the 1970s or so, wingers had to step back, help with ball movement, make defensive contributions, etc. Because the teams started to defend themselves in squeezed blocks and the wingers had to adapt. So there is no longer that winger who only dribbles and cross. We will still have skilled wingers (figo, robben, vini jr). But today they have to do other things on the pitch.
based on Garrincha's footage. adel taarabt, Ben Arfa, P.Coutinho & Ibrahimovic are looking like Dribbling Aliens compared to this
Agree with your thoughts mate. The success rate would be somewhat interesting, if it was recorded too. I noticed this today re: Eden Hazard, on topic in general for this thread Thought it would be funny to put Eden Hazard’s Premier League dribbling peak on a 22/23 graph.🫣 pic.twitter.com/we4keNFe2H— VisualGame (@avisualgame) April 28, 2023
I did finish an attempt to make it up to 40 names with these now, albeit not only should it obviously just be seen as one opinion, but also I suppose a fairly vague estimation as it's difficult to do better than that or be more certain I suppose. Anyway, extending the combined listing I came up with this: 33 - Josef Masopust, 34 - Juan Schiaffino, 35 - Juan Sebastian Veron, 36 - Giuseppe Meazza, 37 - John Barnes, 38 - Edhem Slvijo, 39 - Zvonimir Boban, 40 - Alex James Typing out the passing list in full again, up to 40: 1 - Platini, 2 - Hoddle, 3 - M.Laudrup, 4 - Cruyff, 5 - Didi, 6 - Gerson, 7 - Zico, 8 - Liedholm, 9 - Bergkamp, 10 - Beckham, 11 - Rivera, 12 - Pirlo, 13 - Totti, 14 - Valderrama, 15 - Maradona, 16 - Bozsik, 17 - Suarez Miramontes, 18 - Xavi, 19 - Krol. 20 - Guardiola, 21 - Netzer, 22 - Stojkovic, 23 - Scifo, 24 - De Bruyne, 25 - Xabi Alonso, 26 - Fabregas, 27 - Ocwirk, 28 - Veron, 29 - Dalglish, 30 - Haynes, 31 - Giresse, 32 - Modric, 33 - Deyna, 34 - Bobby Moore, 35, Mesut Ozil, 36 - Gordon Cowans, 37, Ferenc Puskas, 38 - Demetrio Albertini, 39 - Socrates, 40 - Fritz Walter And back on main topic, the dribbling 40 I settled on (kind of): 1 - Best, 2 - Maradona, 3 - Cruyff, 4 - Ronaldo Nazario, 5 - Messi, 6 - Pele, 7 - Garrincha, 8 - Wilkes, 9 - M.Laudrup, 10 - B.Laudrup, 11 - Ronaldinho, 12 - Matthews, 13 - Bochini, 14 - Finney, 15 - Figo, 16 - Savicevic, 17 - Sivori, 18 - Baggio, 19 - Littbarski, 20 - Zico, 21 - Futre, 22 - Ortega, 23 - Susic, 24 - Rivelino, 25 - Meazza, 26 - Kempes, 27 - Kinkladze, 28 - Kopa, 29 - Hazard, 30 - Vukas, 31 - Rensenbrink, 32 - Weah, 33 - Julinho, 34 - Jean Vincent, 35 - Florian Albert, 36 - Jairzinho, 37 - Dragan Dzajic, 38 - Ferenc Bene, 39 - Florian Wirtz, 40 - Jamal Musiala Obviously, apart from older players already in, I've added others like Fritz Walter and Alex James now, with a high degree of uncertainty (especially for James pretty much totally based on what has been written - I guess with Walter it's not inconceivable that he'd be somewhere in the mix for passing/dribbling combined too because it seems like he was a bit more of an agile soloist at times in his earlier days probably). Then at the other end of the spectrum I've slotted Wirtz and Musiala in already on the dribbling list, but at the bottom of the 40, and maybe things could go either way on that one for both of them, the more I see of them playing over the next years, and depending on how they might develop, or decline (specifically in dribbling in this case). So those are definitely guesstimates too (and not just because of difficulty comparing players from different eras).
Chasing shadows The most humiliating dribbling performance of all time IMO Dejan savecevic dribbles past/leaves Bayern Munich players on their ass 18 times in one match 0:05 - 0:09 2 players dropped 0:25 1 player left on the ground 0:32 - 0:36 2 players left on the ground 1:15 1 player dropped 1:45 Rest in peace Career ending dribble here the absolute ROAR from the fans in the stadium tells you everything you need to know 2:19 1 player dribbled past 3:02-3:10 2 players dribbled past 3:15 1 player dropped 3:28 1 player dribbled past 3:50-3:54 2 players dribbled past 4:23-4:27 2 players dribbled past 4:43-4:50 2 players dribbled past @Isaías Silva Serafim @lessthanjake @PDG1978
I noticed that probably Brian Laudrup's number 1 fan has uploaded a nice Bayern Munich period video for him too, with various excellent dribbling on it: In that particular tie in 1990/91 between Red Star and Bayern he wasn't so good though to be fair (as Savicevic, or as his own top highlights from that time), in dribbling or in general: He did have a few moments in the home leg as shown here though
Top 10 dribblers Lionel Messi Diego maradona dejan savicevic george best dragan dzajic Neymar Jr Garrincha Pele Ronaldinho Eden hazard Top 10 passers Sebastian veron Günter Netzer Michel platini Zico Johan Cruyff Diego Maradona Micheal Laudrup Riquelme Lionel Messi Xavi Top 10 goalscorers Cristiano Ronaldo Pele Lionel Messi Romario Ferenc Puskas Gerd Muller Eusebio Marco van basten Robert lewandowski Ronaldo nazario Depending on how this champions league campaign develops Kylian Mbappe could break into my top 10 displacing Ronaldo nazario/Robert lewandowski and potentially even MVB A CL with PSG would be something difficult to ignore(not to mention the body of work he already has) Top 10 players with the greatest combination of goalscoring and dribbling Lionel Messi Pele Zico Eusebio Cristiano Ronaldo Ronaldo nazario Romario Kylian Mbappe Neymar Jr Thierry Henry Top 10 players with the greatest combination of passing and dribbling Diego maradona Zico Lionel Messi johan Cruyff Micheal laudrup Ronaldinho Gaucho gheorghe Hagi Roberto Baggio Dragan Stojković Rivelino Top 10 players with the greatest combination of goalscoring and passing Lionel Messi Pele ferenc puskas Zico Neymar Jr Alfredo Di stefano gheorghe Hagi Roberto Baggio Rivaldo Cristiano Ronaldo Top 10 most complete(technically)offensive players ever Lionel Messi Pele Zico Diego Maradona johan Cruyff Cristiano Ronaldo Alfredo di stefano Neymar Jr Roberto baggio Rivaldo/Gheorghe Hagi ADS goes as high as joint fifth if you take his defensive qualities into consideration but I feel the ones above offered just that bit/a lot more offensively
I've given a rep for the extensive thought and effort Carlito (and taking the concept I introduced and extending it). So on the ones we both tried a top 10 for we had these in both our (estimated) selections I see, in order of how you listed them in your post: Dribbling - Messi, Maradona, Best, Garrincha, Pele (as much as I was/am an admirer of Savicevic - I did put him in the next 10 anyway though and all of your others except Neymar I did put in my extended list of 40 too) Passing - Platini, Zico, Cruyff, Michael Laudrup (all your others except Riquelme and Messi I put in my extended list of 40) Passing/Dribbling - Maradona, Zico, Messi, Cruyff, Michael Laudrup (100% of the others were in my extended list of 40, as you probably saw anyway) I did try one for 'All-Round Technical qualities' after discussion on another thread which maybe you also remember, but I'm not sure if that's completely comparable to your final category or not in effect and I think not really because you focused on offensive play more specifically I think (but I did have Zico and Maradona in my own top 10 the way I did it too, and Baggio/Pele/Cruyff/Hagi/Messi following close behind it so in effect candidates for it too I guess....in my extended list I did put Riquelme in that one too as opposed to the specific passing one, but with your focus on offensive play maybe that suits him less well I guess...Di Stefano I hadn't listed but wouldn't rule it out by any means from what I know/saw and with you using the words complete and offensive I guess he does suit your category more than my one too....).
I think I would be inclined to include Puskas for goalscoring/passing too, but maybe I should reserve judgement in general on that one (and others I haven't thought about in any detail yet)! It would be slightly different to finishing/passing I suppose. I do have an inkling I'd be considering Platini anyway I think, considering the circumstances of era/role.
Apparently by "passes" you're only talking about "final ball playmaking", right? Because for me, "passing ability" covers all types of passes (crosses, switches, through balls, short, medium and long range, etc...), techniques (normal, outside of boot, rabona, back heel, etc...) aligned with decision making (always passing to an open player, when to speed up or slow down the game, etc...), vision (not just passing to the player who is going to shoot, but seeing the guy who is going to make the pass to the guy who is going to finish, etc...) and positioning (always being open to receive a pass). On that sense I think Kroos, Xavi and Pirlo were far better than Messi and most players on your top 10 at passing EDIT: Even if you're talking about final ball playmaking only, it's missing some players like KDB, Özil, etc...
I strongly disagree with there being anyone far better than Messi in any single technical aspect of offensive football Cristiano yes(dribbling and passing) Neymar yes(goalscoring) Maradona yes(goalscoring) Zidane yes (dribbling,goalscoring and passing) Micheal laudrup yes(goalscoring) Cruyff yes(goalscoring) Alfredo di stefano yes(dribbling) Ronaldo nazario yes(passing for sure and could be goalscoring/dribbling depending on whom exactly you are comparing him to) Garrincha yes(goalscoring) platini yes(dribbling and could be goalscoring) Messi was just a vastly superior athletic version of Zico and Zico for my money was the prototype of a complete offensive package(Elite in everything and lacking in nothing) BTW Is there really a more important sub category of passing than final ball playmaking in your opinion? And if there isn’t could you identify this player who is superior (let alone vastly superior) to Messi in playing the final pass?
I guess I'd be thinking something like this for top 10s in those other categories: Passing+Goalscoring: Puskas, Pele, Zico, Di Stefano, Messi, Platini, Cruyff, Van Basten, Kocsis, Dalglish (5 the same) Dribbling+Goalscoring: Pele, Ronaldo Nazario, Messi, Eusebio, Zico, Greaves, Kempes, C.Ronaldo, Van Basten, Henry (7 the same) Goalscoring (somehow maybe the most difficult to think about - this is an estimation based on peak and somehow considering all eras and situations though): Pele, Gerd Muller, Puskas, Romario, Messi, Van Basten, C.Ronaldo, Eusebio, Ronaldo Nazario, Bican (9 the same then I think as it turned out, and the change involving a bit of a punt on Bican obviously - I think I'd have put Di Stefano in otherwise maybe)
You're arguing against a strawman, mate. I didn't say there's someone far better than Messi "in a technical aspect of offensive football". I explained how I see "passing" and I said that on that sense, there are players far better than Messi A successful team requires a well rounded passing repertorie with various subcategories playing crucial roles. Final ball playmaking is exciting and directly linked to goals, but isn't the single most important subcategory of passing in football. For example, progressive passes break the lines and transition the team from the defense to attack. Without them there's no final ball to begin with. Another example is combination play i.e. passing sequences that weave through the midfield, creating space and disorganizing the opponent's defense, breaking down the opposition's structure, making the final ball even more effective. Another one is switching passes that quickly switch the point of attack, stretching the opponent and creating space on the flanks exploiting weaknesses with speed, often leading to crosses or diagonal runs that open up scoring chances. Those are passes that are as important if not more than the final ball. In fact, recently I argued that Messi is the best final ball playmaker of his own era and this is evidenced by his numbers of assists and xA being far ahead of anyone on this century. But again, being the best final ball playmaker doesn't make you the best passer overall and I already said who zi considere better passers than Messi (i.e. Pirlo, Kroos and Xavi)
I tried to brainstorm a top 35 for passing/dribbling/goalscoring and I guess it comes out something like this (Meazza and Walter very estimated I guess)... Pele Cruyff, Messi Zico Puskas, Maradona Di Stefano, Ronaldo Nazario Van Basten, M.Laudrup Baggio, Platini, Meazza Hagi, C.Ronaldo, Rivera Zidane, Henry, Hidegkuti Eusebio, Ronaldinho, Best, Bobby Charlton Deyna, Beckenbauer, Bergkamp, Figo Dalglish, Fritz Walter, Greaves, Piantoni Savicevic, Didi, Pires, Scifo
Feasibly continuing something like this (to get up to 40) I guess: Rivelino, Florian Albert, Schiaffino, Rivaldo, Pedernera....?
My personal top 11 dribblers ever: 1. Messi 2. Maradona 3. Garrincha 4. George Best 5. Cruyff 6. Ronaldo R9 7. Dejan Savicevic 8. Omar Sivori 9. Neymar 10. Ronaldinho 11. Pele
A tribute to a great Italian dribbler of late 70s/early 80s, once very popular (at òeast in Italy), now nearly forgotten, that has never been cited here if I am not mistaken: Evaristo Beccalossi. Also, a very well deserved (in my opinion) homage to the best dribbler ever among defenders: Flamengo idol Jose Leandro Ferreira.
My personal top 11 dribblers ever: 1. Messi 2. Pele 3. Garrincha 4. Maradona 5. Cruyff 6. Ronaldo R9 7. Best 8. Ronaldinho 9. Neymar 10. Zidane 11. Hazard
Updated list: 1. Messi 2. Maradona 3. Garrincha 4. George Best 5. Savicevic 6. Cruyff 7. R9 Ronaldo 8. Sivori 9. Neymar 10. Hazard 11. Ronaldinho 12. Pele