Best dribblers

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Alessandro10, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member

    Jan 28, 2020
    #126 Al Gabiru, Aug 1, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2023
    The greatest dribbler of all time was probably Garrincha

    This random guy on twitter counted 62 dribbles for Garrincha in the 1962 world cup. Which would make him the record holder in the history of the world cups with a wide advantage. Maybe he's wrong. Someone would need to review.



    But even if the numbers are considerably lower, the style of football in the past favored wingers having very high numbers of dribbling. Because they only did that on the field. They were triggered in 30 or 40 attacks per game and the only role was to dribble and cross.

    Also, they didn't face compact teams, with pressure marking in blocks. They were usually 1v1 duels.

    So it is likely that other wingers of the past have absurd numbers of dribbles, not just Garrincha. (stanley matthews, corbatta, julinho botelho)

    From the 1970s or so, wingers had to step back, help with ball movement, make defensive contributions, etc. Because the teams started to defend themselves in squeezed blocks and the wingers had to adapt. So there is no longer that winger who only dribbles and cross. We will still have skilled wingers (figo, robben, vini jr). But today they have to do other things on the pitch.
     
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  2. LaPulga22

    LaPulga22 Member

    Messi FC
    Argentina
    Mar 10, 2023

    based on Garrincha's footage.

    adel taarabt, Ben Arfa, P.Coutinho & Ibrahimovic are looking like Dribbling Aliens compared to this

     
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  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Agree with your thoughts mate. The success rate would be somewhat interesting, if it was recorded too.

    I noticed this today re: Eden Hazard, on topic in general for this thread

    hazarddribble.jpg
     
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I did finish an attempt to make it up to 40 names with these now, albeit not only should it obviously just be seen as one opinion, but also I suppose a fairly vague estimation as it's difficult to do better than that or be more certain I suppose.

    Anyway, extending the combined listing I came up with this:
    33 - Josef Masopust, 34 - Juan Schiaffino, 35 - Juan Sebastian Veron, 36 - Giuseppe Meazza, 37 - John Barnes, 38 - Edhem Slvijo, 39 - Zvonimir Boban, 40 - Alex James

    Typing out the passing list in full again, up to 40:
    1 - Platini, 2 - Hoddle, 3 - M.Laudrup, 4 - Cruyff, 5 - Didi, 6 - Gerson, 7 - Zico, 8 - Liedholm, 9 - Bergkamp, 10 - Beckham, 11 - Rivera, 12 - Pirlo, 13 - Totti, 14 - Valderrama, 15 - Maradona, 16 - Bozsik, 17 - Suarez Miramontes, 18 - Xavi, 19 - Krol. 20 - Guardiola, 21 - Netzer, 22 - Stojkovic, 23 - Scifo, 24 - De Bruyne, 25 - Xabi Alonso, 26 - Fabregas, 27 - Ocwirk, 28 - Veron, 29 - Dalglish, 30 - Haynes, 31 - Giresse, 32 - Modric, 33 - Deyna, 34 - Bobby Moore, 35, Mesut Ozil, 36 - Gordon Cowans, 37, Ferenc Puskas, 38 - Demetrio Albertini, 39 - Socrates, 40 - Fritz Walter

    And back on main topic, the dribbling 40 I settled on (kind of):
    1 - Best, 2 - Maradona, 3 - Cruyff, 4 - Ronaldo Nazario, 5 - Messi, 6 - Pele, 7 - Garrincha, 8 - Wilkes, 9 - M.Laudrup, 10 - B.Laudrup, 11 - Ronaldinho, 12 - Matthews, 13 - Bochini, 14 - Finney, 15 - Figo, 16 - Savicevic, 17 - Sivori, 18 - Baggio, 19 - Littbarski, 20 - Zico, 21 - Futre, 22 - Ortega, 23 - Susic, 24 - Rivelino, 25 - Meazza, 26 - Kempes, 27 - Kinkladze, 28 - Kopa, 29 - Hazard, 30 - Vukas, 31 - Rensenbrink, 32 - Weah, 33 - Julinho, 34 - Jean Vincent, 35 - Florian Albert, 36 - Jairzinho, 37 - Dragan Dzajic, 38 - Ferenc Bene, 39 - Florian Wirtz, 40 - Jamal Musiala

    Obviously, apart from older players already in, I've added others like Fritz Walter and Alex James now, with a high degree of uncertainty (especially for James pretty much totally based on what has been written - I guess with Walter it's not inconceivable that he'd be somewhere in the mix for passing/dribbling combined too because it seems like he was a bit more of an agile soloist at times in his earlier days probably). Then at the other end of the spectrum I've slotted Wirtz and Musiala in already on the dribbling list, but at the bottom of the 40, and maybe things could go either way on that one for both of them, the more I see of them playing over the next years, and depending on how they might develop, or decline (specifically in dribbling in this case). So those are definitely guesstimates too (and not just because of difficulty comparing players from different eras).
     
  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #130 carlito86, Apr 20, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
    Chasing shadows

    The most humiliating dribbling performance of all time IMO


    Dejan savecevic dribbles past/leaves Bayern Munich players on their ass 18 times in one match







    0:05 - 0:09
    2 players dropped


    0:25
    1 player left on the ground



    0:32 - 0:36
    2 players left on the ground


    1:15
    1 player dropped


    1:45
    Rest in peace
    Career ending dribble here

    the absolute ROAR from the fans in the stadium tells you everything you need to know


    2:19
    1 player dribbled past


    3:02-3:10
    2 players dribbled past


    3:15
    1 player dropped


    3:28
    1 player dribbled past


    3:50-3:54
    2 players dribbled past


    4:23-4:27
    2 players dribbled past


    4:43-4:50
    2 players dribbled past

    @Isaías Silva Serafim @lessthanjake @PDG1978
     
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  6. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I noticed that probably Brian Laudrup's number 1 fan has uploaded a nice Bayern Munich period video for him too, with various excellent dribbling on it:


    In that particular tie in 1990/91 between Red Star and Bayern he wasn't so good though to be fair (as Savicevic, or as his own top highlights from that time), in dribbling or in general:
    He did have a few moments in the home leg as shown here though
     
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  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Top 10 dribblers

    Lionel Messi


    Diego maradona

    dejan savicevic

    george best

    dragan dzajic

    Neymar Jr

    Garrincha

    Pele

    Ronaldinho

    Eden hazard





    Top 10 passers

    Sebastian veron


    Günter Netzer

    Michel platini

    Zico

    Johan Cruyff

    Diego Maradona

    Micheal Laudrup

    Riquelme

    Lionel Messi

    Xavi



    Top 10 goalscorers

    Cristiano Ronaldo


    Pele

    Lionel Messi

    Romario

    Ferenc Puskas

    Gerd Muller

    Eusebio

    Marco van basten

    Robert lewandowski

    Ronaldo nazario

    Depending on how this champions league campaign develops Kylian Mbappe could break into my top 10 displacing Ronaldo nazario/Robert lewandowski and potentially even MVB
    A CL with PSG would be something difficult to ignore(not to mention the body of work he already has)


    Top 10 players with the greatest combination of goalscoring and dribbling

    Lionel Messi

    Pele

    Zico

    Eusebio

    Cristiano Ronaldo

    Ronaldo nazario

    Romario

    Kylian Mbappe

    Neymar Jr

    Thierry Henry



    Top 10 players with the greatest combination of passing and dribbling

    Diego maradona

    Zico

    Lionel Messi

    johan Cruyff

    Micheal laudrup

    Ronaldinho Gaucho

    gheorghe Hagi

    Roberto Baggio

    Dragan Stojković

    Rivelino



    Top 10 players with the greatest combination of goalscoring and passing

    Lionel Messi

    Pele

    ferenc puskas

    Zico

    Neymar Jr

    Alfredo Di stefano

    gheorghe Hagi

    Roberto Baggio

    Rivaldo

    Cristiano Ronaldo



    Top 10 most complete(technically)offensive players ever

    Lionel Messi


    Pele

    Zico

    Diego Maradona

    johan Cruyff

    Cristiano Ronaldo

    Alfredo di stefano

    Neymar Jr

    Roberto baggio

    Rivaldo/Gheorghe Hagi


    ADS goes as high as joint fifth if you take his defensive qualities into consideration but I feel the ones above offered just that bit/a lot more offensively
     
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  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #133 PDG1978, Apr 20, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
    I've given a rep for the extensive thought and effort Carlito (and taking the concept I introduced and extending it).

    So on the ones we both tried a top 10 for we had these in both our (estimated) selections I see, in order of how you listed them in your post:
    Dribbling - Messi, Maradona, Best, Garrincha, Pele (as much as I was/am an admirer of Savicevic - I did put him in the next 10 anyway though and all of your others except Neymar I did put in my extended list of 40 too)
    Passing - Platini, Zico, Cruyff, Michael Laudrup (all your others except Riquelme and Messi I put in my extended list of 40)
    Passing/Dribbling - Maradona, Zico, Messi, Cruyff, Michael Laudrup (100% of the others were in my extended list of 40, as you probably saw anyway)
    I did try one for 'All-Round Technical qualities' after discussion on another thread which maybe you also remember, but I'm not sure if that's completely comparable to your final category or not in effect and I think not really because you focused on offensive play more specifically I think (but I did have Zico and Maradona in my own top 10 the way I did it too, and Baggio/Pele/Cruyff/Hagi/Messi following close behind it so in effect candidates for it too I guess....in my extended list I did put Riquelme in that one too as opposed to the specific passing one, but with your focus on offensive play maybe that suits him less well I guess...Di Stefano I hadn't listed but wouldn't rule it out by any means from what I know/saw and with you using the words complete and offensive I guess he does suit your category more than my one too....).
     
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  9. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think I would be inclined to include Puskas for goalscoring/passing too, but maybe I should reserve judgement in general on that one (and others I haven't thought about in any detail yet)!

    It would be slightly different to finishing/passing I suppose. I do have an inkling I'd be considering Platini anyway I think, considering the circumstances of era/role.
     
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  10. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Apparently by "passes" you're only talking about "final ball playmaking", right? Because for me, "passing ability" covers all types of passes (crosses, switches, through balls, short, medium and long range, etc...), techniques (normal, outside of boot, rabona, back heel, etc...) aligned with decision making (always passing to an open player, when to speed up or slow down the game, etc...), vision (not just passing to the player who is going to shoot, but seeing the guy who is going to make the pass to the guy who is going to finish, etc...) and positioning (always being open to receive a pass). On that sense I think Kroos, Xavi and Pirlo were far better than Messi and most players on your top 10 at passing

    EDIT: Even if you're talking about final ball playmaking only, it's missing some players like KDB, Özil, etc...
     
  11. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I strongly disagree with there being anyone far better than Messi in any single technical aspect of offensive football

    Cristiano yes(dribbling and passing)
    Neymar yes(goalscoring)
    Maradona yes(goalscoring)
    Zidane yes (dribbling,goalscoring and passing)
    Micheal laudrup yes(goalscoring)
    Cruyff yes(goalscoring)
    Alfredo di stefano yes(dribbling)
    Ronaldo nazario yes(passing for sure and could be goalscoring/dribbling depending on whom exactly you are comparing him to)
    Garrincha yes(goalscoring)
    platini yes(dribbling and could be goalscoring)


    Messi was just a vastly superior athletic version of Zico and Zico for my money was the prototype of a complete offensive package(Elite in everything and lacking in nothing)

    BTW Is there really a more important sub category of passing than final ball playmaking in your opinion?

    And if there isn’t could you identify this player who is superior (let alone vastly superior) to Messi in playing the final pass?
     
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I guess I'd be thinking something like this for top 10s in those other categories:

    Passing+Goalscoring: Puskas, Pele, Zico, Di Stefano, Messi, Platini, Cruyff, Van Basten, Kocsis, Dalglish (5 the same)

    Dribbling+Goalscoring: Pele, Ronaldo Nazario, Messi, Eusebio, Zico, Greaves, Kempes, C.Ronaldo, Van Basten, Henry (7 the same)

    Goalscoring (somehow maybe the most difficult to think about - this is an estimation based on peak and somehow considering all eras and situations though): Pele, Gerd Muller, Puskas, Romario, Messi, Van Basten, C.Ronaldo, Eusebio, Ronaldo Nazario, Bican (9 the same then I think as it turned out, and the change involving a bit of a punt on Bican obviously - I think I'd have put Di Stefano in otherwise maybe)
     
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  13. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You're arguing against a strawman, mate. I didn't say there's someone far better than Messi "in a technical aspect of offensive football". I explained how I see "passing" and I said that on that sense, there are players far better than Messi

    A successful team requires a well rounded passing repertorie with various subcategories playing crucial roles. Final ball playmaking is exciting and directly linked to goals, but isn't the single most important subcategory of passing in football.

    For example, progressive passes break the lines and transition the team from the defense to attack. Without them there's no final ball to begin with.

    Another example is combination play i.e. passing sequences that weave through the midfield, creating space and disorganizing the opponent's defense, breaking down the opposition's structure, making the final ball even more effective.

    Another one is switching passes that quickly switch the point of attack, stretching the opponent and creating space on the flanks exploiting weaknesses with speed, often leading to crosses or diagonal runs that open up scoring chances.

    Those are passes that are as important if not more than the final ball.

    In fact, recently I argued that Messi is the best final ball playmaker of his own era and this is evidenced by his numbers of assists and xA being far ahead of anyone on this century. But again, being the best final ball playmaker doesn't make you the best passer overall and I already said who zi considere better passers than Messi (i.e. Pirlo, Kroos and Xavi)
     
  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I tried to brainstorm a top 35 for passing/dribbling/goalscoring and I guess it comes out something like this (Meazza and Walter very estimated I guess)...

    Pele
    Cruyff, Messi
    Zico
    Puskas, Maradona
    Di Stefano, Ronaldo Nazario
    Van Basten, M.Laudrup
    Baggio, Platini, Meazza
    Hagi, C.Ronaldo, Rivera
    Zidane, Henry, Hidegkuti
    Eusebio, Ronaldinho, Best, Bobby Charlton
    Deyna, Beckenbauer, Bergkamp, Figo
    Dalglish, Fritz Walter, Greaves, Piantoni
    Savicevic, Didi, Pires, Scifo
     
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  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Feasibly continuing something like this (to get up to 40) I guess:
    Rivelino, Florian Albert, Schiaffino, Rivaldo, Pedernera....?
     

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