Best age to teach passing?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by NewDadaCoach, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    At the very early ages (4/5/6) I have noticed a wide variety of coaching approaches. Some coaches (rec league) and many parents will urge their kids to pass the ball often. And this I didn't agree with.
    Then we did an academy at a respected club, and they said they do not teach passing at this age. They focus on individual skills. And this aligned with my approach.

    But I would like to know from others how they feel.

    I think it is best to focus on individual skills at 4/5/6/7 and then start working in passing at 7/8/9.

    I'm thinking about this a lot because I am contemplating if I want my kid to be on a team where the coach constantly pushes the kids to pass. I think that approach, which is sort of instinctual for many adults to think, is actually not good coaching; it feels unrefined to me. But idk. I think if kids at such young ages are passing then they are not getting in enough time with the ball at their feet. They need to develop a good feel for the ball and how it moves on the ground and they need to try to dribble and score as much as possible, not worry about "finding a pass". It is too much for them to digest mentally, in my opinion.
     
  2. TheKraken

    TheKraken Member

    United States
    Jun 21, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2 TheKraken, Oct 10, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
    I would say by 7yo they need to be thinking about passing. (Even sooner really, but you might not have the players at that age to really get things working) Soccer is a team game. The best dribblers cannot go through everyone by U13. The more you give the more you will receive. Give it up, get to a better place, and get it back. Then score. Much harder to find space when you have the ball, because the defense is attracted to the ball. You can find more space without the ball. Win the space and the ball should come to you. Many times it is more important what the other 10 players do without the ball than what the one player does with it. I've seen so many skilled dribblers fall away, because they simply won't give up the ball. Good soccer players. Being a skilled dribbler is a great skill, maybe the best, but there is so much more to the game that I hate seeing them fall by the wayside, because they simply won't pass or only pass if they get into too much trouble. Unfortunately, this happens and it might be an American thing, I don't know, but they just need to see that it takes a team to win at higher levels.
     
  3. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    #3 NewDadaCoach, Oct 11, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
    I think 7 is a fine age to start passing. With that I agree.
    Of course soccer is a team game, that is undisputable, but at the very formative ages of 4/5/6 the kids should really be doing individual skills. They are developing muscle memory and nerve memory. Like riding a bike.
    I think the top pros focused heavily on skills at early ages. Leo Messi for ex, he dribbled a lot, his coaches got angry and said to dribble less, but he defied them. What if he had not defied them? Then he would not be Messi, because to become a Messi you need to try try try again and again and again. This is ok for youth. Who cares if they make a mistake and lose the ball. Let them try and fail. Otherwise they will have zero chance of fulfilling their potential. This is probably why the US has not created a Messi-level player. It probably won't happen because that kid will be called a "ball hog". Messi is a great passer as well, so it's the best of both worlds. Have the weapon of great dribbling available, but also know how/when to pass.
    Maybe it depends on the kid. Not everyone will become a great dribbler, so then sure, maybe they should focus on passing earlier on. But the few that have that spark, let them dribble and try to score over and over and over, if they so desire. That is my philosophy anyhow.
    We somehow make kids feel it is selfish or not good to score goals.
    I see kid's with space to dribble to, or an open shot on goal... but they pass it instead of exploiting it, because they feel they are just supposed to pass; it's what you are supposed to do. But I think that is teaching bad psychology.

    Look at a sport like basketball. The point of the game is get the ball in the basket. That's literally the objective. You need people to score; you need players to have confidence and take chances and you need to pull out of them that element of attack (no mercy) and "badassery". And likewise in soccer, the point of the game is to get the ball in the goal. You need to nurture and bring forth the ruthless goal scoring attitude. I say let kids, at ages 4-6, and maybe even 7, be ball hogs. Let them be selfish as much as they want. There is only good to be had as they will have the ball at their feet and be facing pressure in an organic way. They will eventually learn their limitations, in a more organic way then hearing a bunch of parents and coaches scream at them to "pass it!"
     
  4. Malarkey

    Malarkey Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Mar 4, 2020
    7 seems really young to be worried about passing. If a kid is a ball hog the coach can manage that (for opportunities for the rest of the kids) by giving him shifts on defense, in goal, etc.

    IMO I don’t think kids should really be focused on passing until they can understand space and where they are on the field relative to other players. If kids are passing at 7 most of them are doing it more because they are “sharing,” or because they are being taught by rote (“if you dribble to the corner, kick it to the middle.”). Some kids don’t have any awareness at all for a long time - way beyond 7.
     
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  5. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    I don't think either side (pass/dribble) is wrong. And you won't know if you've taken the "wrong" approach until many years later.

    So, sure, teach them to dribble and work on footskills. They could become great beating people 1-on-1. BUT, they can also become a "ball hog" and think they can dribble through when they're 1-on 2/3, which results in losing the ball.

    Or, you teach them to pass every time they come upon a defender. Then they never learn any skills.

    I find it hard to believe 4/5/6 year olds are even finding space off the ball to even give the dribbler someone to pass to. At that age, they generally move around in one big bunch, there IS no one to pass to. At 7/8, they're starting to learn to pass.

    Kids need to learn when you should pass and when they should keep it at their feet.
     
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  6. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    It's really up to the coach to find activities that encourage passing. If it's fun, kids will do it. Expecting young kids to play like adults does not work very well.
     
  7. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I met a coach who insisted that 9- and 10-year-olds didn't pass. Safe to say it was time to look elsewhere.
     
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  8. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Good point. This is another reason to not teach passing too early. I hear some coaches yell to pass it, but there is no one to pass to. First you should teach kids to get open. How can you tell a kid to pass it when there is no one to pass to? I don't get it. Passing is more complicated than just telling someone to pass it.
     
  9. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    That sounds odd. I wonder what his reasoning was.
    Even at the earliest ages I would not mandate passing or dibbling. I would encourage them to dribble as a default but let them know that passing is fine too.
     
  10. bluechicago

    bluechicago Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They will learn to pass on their own. You can work on passing skills in training, but the most important part of passing is vision and awareness of the game. The best way to develop those skills is spending a ton of time with the ball. The way I look at it is I can teach any kid at any age to pass the ball, I cannot start with an 11 year old and ever make that child a stud dribbler. Not to mention, hearing parents scream pass at kids is my number one trigger on the sideline.
     
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  11. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    I tend to agree.
    It's interesting to see the various opinions. Perhaps in the long run it won't matter too much. Not sure. But I think I have enough validation and will probably stick with the dribble-centric approach for the young ones.
     
  12. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    My club had a "DOC" <SMIRK> who walked around the field one random night/week during inhouse practices before jumping into the pickup game with the random adults in the space between the goal and the curve of the running track.

    One night, the club had a coach happy hour, to get together and talk about stuff, and the DOC was there. He was going on at length with the -at the time- USYS/USSF talking point of no tactics before u13 - of which passing was one.

    I pointed out I had a kid on my team who was really good at taking the ball down the line, then putting a ball right to a kid standing near the goal. I was saying how more of the other kids were realizing if they got there, Gio would deliver. DOC argued that it was impossible, no 8yo knows how to do that.

    Maybe no US 8yo that never watches soccer. An 8yo with Italian/Colombian parents who does watch soccer figures it out pretty early.

    The club did away with the DOC role, this guy still bounces from club to club and personal training gigs.

    Find a mentor who can help you see the game isn't 11 1v1s, best coach ed move you'll make. Who also can explain the difference between "moves" and "outplaying in order to keep the ball" (hint, if all the 1v1 ballwork is face to face, move on) Then find some way to watch with the kids - ipad, game watch night w the parents, links to footballia.net. Best bet is tactical cam viewpoint, or a feed from a country that doesn't zoom in on the player with the ball.

    once they see it, some will try to do it.
     
  13. Con Boutsianis

    Con Boutsianis New Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Oct 14, 2020
    Hi there, I read your post and I thought that this may help you. I've been developing players for the last 20 years at all levels, ever since I stopped playing professionally. Nothing is right or wrong, but in my experince kids need to learn how to run with the ball correctly and how to pass and control the ball immediately. You do say that they need to run and score as much as possible, but shooting is not a priority, passing is. Once they establish how to pass accurately then they can move onto more shooting skills. As a specialist in biomechanics, there is one thing that many people may forget to address, and that is the mechanics of what you are doing. This plays a key role in all the skills that are performed in soccer. Mentally, I think that tactics are the areas that are difficult to digest which is not required at such a young age. It's like spelling words without knowing the alphabet. Well in the soccer alphabet , you control the ball first, run with it, dribble, pass and shoot. I would learn the basics first and do them really well before anything else. I hope that this helps.
     
  14. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    #14 NewDadaCoach, Oct 16, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
    Thanks for the feedback. There seems to be many varying opinions even amongst experienced coaches.
    Personally, I think kids need to get in the habit of scoring asap so they can actually enjoy the game. It's not much fun if you are not scoring, especially if only the other team is. Scoring brings much joy.
    Likewise, I don't see how passing can be taught at 5 when there is no one to pass to. First you must teach kids to use space, get open, call for ball. Telling a kid to pass when no one is open only causes cognitive dissonance. I see it all the time. It freezes the kid when the adults yell that, or they just kick the ball haphazardly. The kid becomes confused. It is not organic to the game if you are forcing it. If there is no passing option, do not pass. If there is space, dribble.
    I did have my U6 team do some passing. I think a little bit is good. It just irks me when parents/coaches yell to pass it when there is no passing option. How about yelling at the teammates to get open, to support, to create a passing lane. That comes before a pass can be made.
    I don't see much downside to focusing on dribbling and shooting at ages 4-6. Perhaps they get into year 7 and are a bit behind in passing. Yet, they will have enhanced dribbling skills. I think as the kids mature they are easier to explain team concepts to. At 4-6 they don't really grasp it, so why force it. Their natural inclination is to dribble and score. So dribble and score until the cows come home!
    Maybe in the long run it doesn't matter all that much whether they start passing at 5 or 7 or 9. I don't know
     
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  15. RealChicago

    RealChicago Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    May 21, 2018
    #15 RealChicago, Oct 18, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
    I don't teach passing until 9 or 10. I want kids comfortable on the ball with impressive dribbling skills. Must ask why there are ZERO American players with awesome world class dribbling skills. This of course varies on the player though and there mental maturity.

    Young children can't share toys without pitching a fit, I don't expect them to share the ball either.
     
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  16. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Wow that is interesting. Quite a contrast from @Con Boutsianis. (You two also have opposing teams in Barca and RM. haha)

    Well the only thing I can say for certain is that there are many approaches.

    I do lean towards your approach though.

    I agree about sharing. It is not natural for them at early ages, forcing it is wasted energy. Rather leverage their natural desire to dribble. Build on top of that while they are into it.

    I will go a step further. I am not teach anything "aerial" at young ages... I just realized this today. No more juggling - too soon. Their neuromuscual system is not developed enough. My kid cannot juggle for the life of him, but he is very good with the ball on the ground. He just really locks in and displays quite good proficiency and confidence. There is so much to learn with the ball on the ground. Trapping from different angles, different speeds. Kicking at different angles, speeds. Getting comfortable with using different parts of the foot. Turning. Dribbling at different speeds. Etc... so... I will focus on that stuff for now. Plenty to learn!

    Thanks for weighing in!
     
  17. SuperHyperVenom

    Jan 7, 2019
    #17 SuperHyperVenom, Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
    At U7 by the end of the season my child's team passed and had at least 1 set piece from throw-ins. The wingers knew how to cross. The defenders knew how to cover each other. And this was park soccer. The coach was a dad.

    A couple of the kids did extra academy lessons 2x per week.

    Today, only 1 player of that team is playing at an elite level - the only girl on the team. The rest are now just average players.
     
  18. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    So if I am reading you correctly it sounds like you prefer the "learn passing later, focus on dribbling early" approach?
     
  19. SuperHyperVenom

    Jan 7, 2019
    #19 SuperHyperVenom, Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
    @NewDadaCoach - I'm not implying anything! I'm not a coach. But re-read what I said. They were passing to each other, dribbling, crossing and sort of defending as a team at U7 - so I am assuming the coach was coaching this in their weekly training. Unless my kid learned it playing soccer at school.

    Why can't passing and dribbling be taught at the same time? I'm sure I remember them doing both passing and dribbling drills. Passing gets the kids looking up and scanning.

    I do remember shooting/kicking technique training was much later (U10 or 11?) and my child couldn't juggle well until U12.
     
  20. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Not to name-drop here, but I covered the 2011 convention where Claudio Reyna unveiled the "curriculum" that lasted, oh, two years or so.

    A lot of coaches in the back were muttering about his admonition against "overdribbling," which flew in the face of the "learn 1v1 skills above anything else, even math" ideology we had at the time.

    I bumped into Reyna later and mentioned it to him. He let loose an exasperated sigh and said, "How many touches do you see Barcelona players take before they pass?"

    Personally, I think you teach passing early, in part because it's actually TWO skills. The second is *receiving*. That's vitally important.

    I swear I've heard coaches in one breath say they don't teach passing, and then they talk about developing a first touch. How do you develop a first touch when you're always starting with a stationary ball? You develop a first touch when someone's passing it to you. (Or if you're playing it off a wall, in which case you're still passing and receiving.)

    Anyway, here's the story:

    http://www.espn.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6061681/us-soccer-matter-style
     
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  21. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your whole post was great, but this point really jumped out at me.

    I've noticed this for years, in youth soccer and also college.
     
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  22. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    Great point. DD's club team has had MAJOR problems with bad first touches for years. Girls couldn't control the ball. It would hit their feet, their shin guards, their bodies, whatever, and bounce 5 yards away... and of course an opponent would be 7-10 yards away, but going TOWARD the ball. This is at U12-U14. And I saw hit on her HS team a number of times. By this age, bad first touches should be the exception, not the rule. Is it because too much time was spent on dribbling skills at early ages? I really have no ideas.
     
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  23. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Oh. It seemed you were saying if you want to become elite don't follow that coach.
     
  24. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    #24 NewDadaCoach, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    It's a bit ironic that you mention Barcelona. They also have the arguably best 1v1 player in the world in Messi. And without Messi the club would not have enjoyed the luster it has the past decade; probably would have won fewer, if any, La Liga titles.

    It is players like Messi, CR7, Neymar that make the kids want to be good solo dribblers.

    But admittedly the Messi's of the world are the exceptions, and for macro level policy yes it is best to have the pass-centric approach. Though I would say it also depends on the culture. A lot of countries have much more opportunities for kids to do passing (street soccer, futsal). Also, it does play to their physical strengths as they are generally shorter and smaller in stature. A bigger physique culture like Germany/UK can utilize aerial balls (eg headers) more and physicality to gain leverage.
    But one must respect Reyna!
    Ultimately I'm not implying that dribbling or passing is more important, was just exploring if the timing of when to best learn these.
    Passing is the bedrock. You can win without a 1v1 superstar. But if you happen to have that person then utilize them/don't stifle them. That's my philosophy for now.
     
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  25. bluechicago

    bluechicago Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think maybe the point should be you teach the technique of passing at training, you DO NOT stress the act of passing in games, they will get that on their own. Playing one touch with a partner or two or five is a great way to develop that first touch. Lots of things you can do in training to develop the skill of making and receiving a pass.
     
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