Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Because I don't really want the players who are forward having to cover as much as I saw in, for example, the Paraguay match.

    I'd like to keep both McKennie and Tillman forward, and allow them to press without as much concern for coverage. I also think that whoever plays that RW -- McKennie, Dest, even Weah likes to play more on the edge of the box -- likes to come inside more, leaving me wanting anyone coming in from the back to be wider.

    I'm simply allocating more defense there instead of forward, and I'm really trying to find a way to get both McKennie and Tillman both in the attack and not have one hang back. In the Paraguay match, Reyna was not as involved forward as I'd have liked because Tessman was hovering and Scally was sort of mindlessly making runs and it got very crowded.

    I also tend to think that a lot of the build up concerns are alleviated by Pochettino's tactics / we can adjust for a pressing team if we play one. I think having Tillman, Pulisic plus an active McKennie on the right presents a lot of excellent targets who can come back. I'm not as concerned about that role being a great passer if we have active CAMs.

    But I'm not overly convinced myself that this is the "best" -- it's just how I began to put it together around the attack I think is probably the best. I would not be upset sliding one of McKennie and Tillman back, etc.,

    But I think out best attack has Tillman can be in the center of it all for others to play off him + Weston crashing in from wide as he's done so well at Juve ... I wanted to have that set up and then build around it.

    I think this diamond in the middle is the best core attack we can have:

    --------------- Balogun --------------
    ---- Pulisic ------------- Wes ------
    ---------------- Tillman --------------

    in the vein of those old Spurs teams. Fullbacks (and Wes) provide width as needed.

    This does create more structured roles, for better or worse. It's less fluid than something that allows for more runs from deeper CMs, I suspect, and this more predictable, but that also means less chances for bad reads and mistakes.
     
  2. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like the idea of this front four. Balogun and Tillman appear to have chemistry. And Tillman seems like the guy who can get him the ball.
     
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  3. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member+

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a great lineup. With Dest hurt, who would you swap in? Probably Weah or Scally for me, depending on how you want to play it. Weah better going forward, but Scally can play RWB role and also the hybrid/RCB role as well.
     
  4. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member+

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Banks is simply a better CB than Ream at this point in their careers. Ream’s mobility is a huge liability that you basically have to rework the entire team around, and his strength in possession doesn’t outweigh it. I know Poch sees it differently, but I disagree completely.
     
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  5. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think if Dest couldn't go then some would depend on whom we were playing and the tactics Poch wanted to use but I'd think pretty hard about Freeman. He's an athletic monster.
     
  6. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe Banks will one day be the better CB. At this junction, Ream is still the safer bet because of his experience. Sure, Ream is getting slower, but he doesn't make as many errors as Banks at this point of their careers.
     
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  7. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately, VillaReal doesn't think he is ready. I think he is. I saw him today on the bench and he is not a happy camper.
     
  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Too bad for Freeman. In the 10 matches leading up to February Villarreal were 2W1D7L. Since then, they have gone 4W2L.
     
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  9. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't stress enough how important I think it is for us to stick with the 3CB system... whether that's using 3 traditional CBs or using the "hybrid/RCB" role you mentioned. The evidence is clear as day... under Poch we were awful using 2CB sets. When we switched to 3CBs in the 2nd half against SK everything changed. Literally like a light switch. I think a lot of it has to do with the number of our CBs that are playing in 3CB systems for their clubs (E.g. Richards, Banks, McKenzie, Robinson)... we also have some CBs in our pool that can pass well but don't have the wheels/athleticism to cover the 2CB space at the highest level (E.g. Ream and Blackmon). Both are important from a D perspective but perhaps the most obvious change came on O... where it seems like our CBs do a heck of a lot better passing and breaking lines out of the back when we are holding w/ 3. Banks would be an ideal RCB to bring in but I would also trust Freeman to play it in the hybrid role. Scally and Blackmon can also fill that role. With Dest out I would plug Weah in at RWB immediately. I might even play Weah ahead of Dest.
     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Except we didn't play 3 ATB against Paraguary or Uruguay. I know you mentioned the hybird RCB role in there, but that wasn't even that. That was a 4 ATB with a fullback who got forward more often than not.

    A lot of things changed in the at SK game when we went 3 ATB, not just a formation change. We put in Balogun for the first time in the Pochettino era. We went for a far more aggressive defensive set up.

    Ream has also credited playing those 3 ATB matches as a way to learn how to play 4 ATB the way Pochettino wants in terms of covering and fluidity.

    Which is all to say, I don't think we need to play 3 ATB nor do I think it will be our primary set up.
     
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  11. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm. We played a 4-2-3-1 when defending deep in our own end but in possession we played with 3 in the back. So yes... it was the hybrid role.

    Ream - Robinson - Scally in the Paraguay game

    and

    Trusty - McKenzie - Freeman in the Uruguay game.
     
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  12. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both Scally and Freeman can stay deep and play as a hybrid CB or attack and be almost a wingback. If they are there you have watch the game to see which role they are playing. And as Gorgoroth said in SK game multiple changes came in but night and day was swapping Sargent for Balogun. SK had their hands full with him the instant he was on and he gave room for all the others who were stagnant when Sargent was there. I've always been a big Sargent fan but being there in person watching that was eye opening.
     
  13. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    The “proof” for Malik as a 6 is a 2 game sample!

    One game where he kept his head above water while his team got ran through and only survived because of poor finishing. The other where it was an absolute disaster! There is no proof of concept! That is not proof. There is only a projection!

    Adding in Malik next to a more dedicated 6 (mostly with 3 dedicated CBs backstopping him) gets the sample all the way up to 6-8 games. That’s not enough for “proof” either. It’s just entering hypothesis territory.
     
  14. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Balo certainly made a difference but cmon... the D was swiss cheese on the counter before we starting holding with 3 in the back... and the passing patterns out of the back became so less predictable.
     
  15. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Dest is hurt but Malik and Pulisic have recovered some more. RB becomes more about matchups with my first choice out. My 3 main choices are Wes, Weah, and Scally. Freeman is 4th. Weah is starting at RB for OM in a back 4. He is my first choice unless the hybrid 4/3 ATB shape makes sense, then it’s Scally. Balogun really feasts on service from the right so having Weah and, after Malik is fit, Wes out on the right should provide some synergies.
     
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  16. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Life events aren't a 10,000 sample experiment. Take care.
     
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    We sometimes had three in the back in the initial build up but Scally spent most of that Paraguay game bombing forward. He was in the attack nearly every possession, especially in the first half.

    That's the part that I think is an important distinction here offensively -- we weren't keeping the RB back to cover opposition transition while we were attacking. We sent both fullbacks forward and left the two centerbacks and ONE center mid usually to cover.

    Against Paraguay, we had a near constant overload on the right -- Tessman, Scally, Dest, and Reyna were all in the attack. All that was left to cover was Roldan and the two CBs.

    It was more balanced against Uruguay, but not to the point that Freeman stayed home all that much. Instead, it was mostly that Berhalter didn't really play as far forward as Tessman did, though Freeman probably made fewer runs.

    Whatever you want to call that position, the reality is that we've seen success both with it staying home a TON or even being a more true back 3, but we've also seen some success with it coming forward much more often.

    Because of that, I really don't think it's some kind of requirement to play with that role staying home predominantly. Our best game -- Uruguay -- had it be much more attacking and much more flexible in attack.
     
  18. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member+

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree fully with most of this, but I do think Wes as RB/RWB would not be maximizing what he can bring to the squad.
     
  19. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We may have had the hybrid-CB/FB get forward more in the Uruguay game but we still lined up with 3 holding and game play allowed for this flexibility. When we play with our more traditional 2CB 2FB we get stale/boring/predictable passing routines and opponents go into the game with an explicit plan to attack the space left behind by our dual-high FBs... and it works... especially with less-athletic CBs like Ream and Blackmon. And again... I think guys like Trusty and McKenzie can be real positives in 3CB backlines but lack the passing chops when put into a 2CB set. These guys attack outside spaces and create counter-transitions when playing outside... and they also seem to find the midfield-splitting ball up the alley that is missing when paired up in the back.
     
  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think the difference here is that I think a lot of what you are attributing to the 3 ATB is due to other progression with the player base and you are attributing it mostly or all to the 3 ATB.

    I think a 3 ATB works for us in many ways, but what I saw against Paraguay and Uruguay worked very well as well -- and was very much a 4 ATB in terms of the things that affect the above.

    In particular, our FBs were both high and that space was often open, but we still managed to have a very fluid attack and not get punished.

    But I do like the flexibility being able to switch between the two even within a game, which is why I like Freeman there so much in that role. It's a very simple adjustment when he's on the field.
     
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  21. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I find it kind of interesting that my best 11, with only two exceptions (for different reasons) is so clear cut.

    ————————-( )
    Pulisic—-McKennie——Tillman——-Weah
    —————————Adams
    Jedi——-(. )———-Richard’s——Freeman
    ————————Freese

    Dest is currently injured so he’s not in the team now but if healthy, he takes weah’s spot.

    striker is either Pepi or Balo. For me that decision can be made later.

    I have no clue on lcb. I haven’t seen Banks, but have seen reports. Hopefully he chooses us AND he really is all that it sounds like he is. Of course he is real young and hoping he will choose us AND be one of our top two center backs is probably wishful thinking on my part.
     
  22. Geoduck

    Geoduck Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    I wonder how people are getting the impression that Tristan Blackmon isn't athletic, because it doesn't jibe with other things I've seen on the internet.
     
  23. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those numbers are from 5+ years ago... when he played RB. You didn't need to google old stats to make your point... he was voted MLS defender of the year last season... so saying he lacks athleticism may not have been the best way to put it. Look, I like Tristan... I watch a lot of Whitecap games. I was advocating for him early on in his LAFC career... and I am really happy that he matured into a high quality MLS CB. I even think he could have a place on the WC squad... just not as a CB pair.
     
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  24. Geoduck

    Geoduck Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    Okay, cool. I spotted Blackmon's speed stat while researching something else and remembered it while reading a few people saying that he was too slow for the NT. I don't watch many Whitecaps matches, so I was thinking maybe he had a career-altering injury in recent years that led people to dismiss his physical abilities.
     
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  25. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I think that is just FIFA brained thinking, where people attribute all effectiveness to speed and quickness because that’s how a video game works. Blackmon’s most serious injury was a knee sprain that kept him out for two months.
     
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