Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. FatRon09

    FatRon09 New Member

    Arsenal
    Brazil
    Sep 14, 2023
    interesting take on balogun starting on the left. why him over wright? and will ggg not start reyna on the right next to scally, and mckennie on the left cover for jedi as he did vs. brazil?
    will puli play from the right? he does it in italy, but we haven't seen this with the nats.
    is bolivia the match to experiment with new tactics? or, should we wait until the endless concacaf matches?
     
  2. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    In the 4231 how are the two CMs and FBs operating in possession in relation to where we have the ball?
     
  3. jreadusaf

    jreadusaf Member

    Jun 18, 2009
    Tübingen, Germany
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Good lineup--I'd make one change. I don't really agree with Berhalter's vision for the #9, but it is what it is. In the Berhalter system, I'd like to see Aaronson or some other three-lunged player up there. His 'striker' is really a pressing defender up top that makes runs into the boxes for the crosses in attack and I really think we would benefit with someone who is known for their hustle rather than skill. The wingers are really the goal scorers.
     
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  4. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    A nice wrinkle I could see with Scally at RB is having McKennie on that side and having Scally stay home more and sliding defensive line to Jedi’s side as I would want him to join with his runs forwards. Having a fullback stay home would allow Musah and McKennie to get more forward. I’m not entirely sure how to answer your question as I’m not familiar with the movement intricacies you might see. The idea of the 4-2-3-1 rather than the 4-3-3 is that you it seems the 3 MF’s in the latter are roaming a lot and bringing that winger position to an outside MID in order to support the middle 8’s more. Not sure if that’s right thinking or not.
     
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  5. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    #12455 Bob Morocco, Jun 18, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2024
    Sure, a good way to get a sense for a team’s tactics is to watch what the players do off the ball in possession, especially on the weakside. So say the ball is on the right, check out what Jedi, Wes, and Pulisic are doing. How wide are they staying? What line are they on? How are they moving in relation to ball movement? Does it look like they are trying to drop into a pocket to show for a switch or are they looking to get played into space? Look for the mix and the trends of these things.

    Like the basic options for the CM are:
    1. One guy mostly holds and the other guy plays two ways. This is like having a designated 6 and 8 division of labor.
    2. The ballside CM plays two ways, the weakside CM holds. This is a fluid 6 and 8 division of labor. It doesn’t have to be 100% ballside/weakside but that’s the main way teams decide who does what.
    3. Both CMs tend to hold. Double 6s.

    Teams that play a 4231 generally don’t play it where both CMs are two-way at the same time unless they are really chasing a goal. Even then usually they’ll just push all their lines forward so the holding mid is basically at the edge of the final third. I’m having a hard time thinking of a team that has played a 4231 where they would release both of their CMs to attack (meaning both could be advanced at the same time) regularly. Like if there is a transition or a counter and it makes situational sense for the player who should hold to step into attack, yes. In the normal run of play, no.

    When it comes to FBs:
    1. Both are wide on the DM line. When the ball enters the attacking half the ballside FB advances up the wing. At the same time the weakside FB narrows off and stays on the DM line, staying fairly tight to the nearest CM. This is the current modern default. In the pre-Pep at Bayern past the weakside FB would have stayed a bit wider.
    2. Same starting positions on the DM line. When the ball advances both FB advance. This is the dual attacking FB system. Usually it will mean that the wide attackers come inside or go up top or some combination. There could be some ballside weakside dynamic but from a higher starting point with less vertical distinction between the two FBs. Playing two attacking FBs in a 4231 is very attacking and usually balanced out by playing double 6s.
    3. Same starting position on the DM line. When the ball advances both FBs narrow off and stay on the DM line and then selectively step up/underlap/overlap. This allows one of the CMs to step up and play pretty free in attack. It also probably means that the WMs like to start from wide positions.

    Now a lot of teams try to make a “front 5” and the high and wide spots can be filled by both the FBs. Usually teams in a 4231 don’t fill both of the wide attacking spots in that attacking 5 with FBs at the same time because they already have 4 attackers. Why drop a natural attacker into DM for a FB? Usually they will alternate or have one guy who tends to go high and the other holds.
     
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  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I didn't mean to be particular about which side of central midfield Reyna would play. Balogun is a better player than is Wright. Balogun is also the 4 fastest player in the Ligue 1. His tendency is to drift to the left. He would be a natural fit there. There are no new tactics here. But the formation was a suggestion for a Best XI based on what Berhalter seemed to prefer in his use of the players. It wasn't a suggestion for rthe Bolivia match.
     
  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he only names 9
     
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Yay we're only one goal weaker than France!
     
  10. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting choices. You can’t help but feel it’s a bit of a nostalgic and sentimental tour of the player pool more than anything….

    Maybe he feels the current group need to prove themselves on the field with a big win or success in a tournament.

    And let’s be honest, aside from dominating Mexico (and yes that has been delicious), we have not done well against tops teams with this current generation. We have the England tie and that’s about it…

    The players might not realize it, but their opportunities to make a signature win are fewer than they may fully realize…
     
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  11. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't agree because both Sargent and Pepi are great pressers and can come back and hold up the ball with their back to the goal at times when needed. Aaronson can't do that part which makes him very one dimensional. I'll also add Sargent lately and Pepi almost always are much more accurate on shots than Aaronson. None will get a lot of chances but that makes having someone accurate even more important. Until Aaronson starts scoring and assisting more his role will be as a sub who brings tons of energy and can annoy the heck out of a tired back line mixed with occasional starts due to rotation, injury and cards. Up to him to improve enough to move ahead of Weah.
     
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  12. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depending on many factors I could see Balogun and Wright as the left sided wingers and Pulisic on the right if nothing more than occasional wrinkle. If Weah is injured, out on cards or playing as a right back it could be a temporary or permanent thing.
     
  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Well, that's likely why Berhalter sees Sarge as his starter but Sarge has a bad ankle. Try a 2nd viewing of Brazil game with attention to Pepi. I don't see where he does what you say he does. Sarge, iirc, had the hold up and dish to Pulisic for Weah's goal in Qatar.

    Aaronson isn't one dimensional, though. He helped on Vinny and on Davies, the latter in the WCQ. With more minutes with Cardoso and Adams we could see decent counters coming out of short passing game/switches.

    Not Morocco's finest game but here's Pulisic, Adams, Musah, Weah, Aaronson, Ferreira, ARob starting. Wright comes in at the HT but doesn't do much.
     
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  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
  15. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've seen Pepi play since he was 16-17 so I'm not judging him on one game that I don't know his instructions. As for Aaronson I didn't say he was one dimensional I said he'd be one dimensional as a striker.
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The international game is almost a different sport. Club play offers you the actual ceiling of the players. NT duty is too brief for that, and being adaptable is more important than being a great player who needs to know his mates.

    Also, in the international game, because of the short period of time, the coach matters more. All in all, so far, I think Egg has done a decent job --but I don't expect it to continue that way, second terms are difficult to navigate and worse when there's no qualifiers to adjust things.

    Would anyone have done better? I doubt it. We got a very unbalanced team now that Adams is not 100%, Richards doesn't look ready, Ream is on the way out, and we have no proper replacement. Turner runs hot and cold. On a bad day for our defenders, no coach could make this team get any points in a game against a Top 20, not even at home.

    We should still be a Top 20 team because we got some players particularly well-fitted to the international game: adaptable, high stamina, fast, strong, less tactical (too tactical can be a problem when the average player only spends about 25 days per year with the NT). Pulisic, Weah, Weston (when he cares), Dest (when he cares), Jedi (again, when he cares) can be big assets and raise up to that level, even Top 16.

    I'd go as far as to say playing at home and with an adequate CB pair, Turner focused, Adams back 100%, and a striker who fits the formation, we're likely to make a QF run.

    That has too many "ifs" though. This Copa we may make the semis, which is what I expected back in November when the details were announced. But if things are not going according to plan, I'm afraid our first playoff game will be our last. And it won't be as much on the coach as on the lack of replacement for Ream and Zimmerman.
     
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  17. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Why does the coach matter more in the venue where they spend much less time with the players, the players spend much less time together, and the amount and complexity of the stuff they can do is reduced?

    I’d say that being truly talented is more important in the international game. That being adaptable is a sign of having a broad skill set and a sharp mind and not just being a good system player.
     
  18. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Because in the club game the quality of your players can compensate for weak coaching, since the guys get to know each other well.

    Adaptable is in great part about being smart. With the short time, you gotta be smart and adapt quickly. Pure talent only matters if it's phenomenal talent, like CR or Messi. Otherwise you don't have time to get to know your mates well enough to maximize the talent you got, and you depend more on developing a quick understanding of the overall tactics.

    That depends greatly on how well the coach is at communicating, in the international game. Bielsa creates some of the most complex tactical schemata, yet has been able to get NTs playing them. He has a reputation as a passionate teacher.
     
  19. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I believe that very good players develop chemistry with others more quickly than less talented players. That means that international teams that have a collection of these players will have an advantage in this kind of time constrained environment. At the club level this plays out too but there would be diminishing returns and other teams have the time to develop it. Really it’s just the competition structure and the nature of the game that allows talent to shine over a large sample in a sport where an individual result is very susceptible to luck/variance.

    There is a benefit of having a very efficient teacher in a time constrained environment. However, if you put that person in the club game they will have an even greater impact because of the much greater opportunity to communicate and work with players.
     
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  20. jreadusaf

    jreadusaf Member

    Jun 18, 2009
    Tübingen, Germany
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aaronson is a capable player that can be multidimensional, but he would very much be a one-dimensional player in Berhalter's system for a striker. Every player in this system as a striker is one dimensional, and that is my point. There is a reason that all of our strikers are seemingly playing poor, and it's because what is being asked of the position has no skill involved, only to hustle. I am not advocating for Aaronson over Balogun, Pepi, Wright, or Sargent, per se, I am advocating for a hustler rather than a skill player in Berhalter's system and vision for a #9. Put the skill players/attackers on the wings. They're the real goal scorers in this system.
     
  21. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Can you describe the overall system and its constituent roles?
     
  22. usfootball20

    usfootball20 Member+

    May 15, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’d be really curious what a new coach does with midfield. I love his energy, but I’m starting to wonder if Adams is a liability in games we need to attack. Or maybe Dest is just that important. But we have too many players that are a liability with ball progression. Adams is a fantastic player for lower half clubs.
    Also with Musah not great in the final third, we don’t have enough goal threats.

    I’d consider a Musah Mckennie Reyna midfield. Or even something with Tillman or Aaronson.
     
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  23. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It all boils down to how much defense you are willing to forego.
     
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  24. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ______turner______
    ____zim__ream____
    dest___________jedi
    ______adams______
    __musah_mckennie_
    weah__________puli
    ______sarge______

    walk back any attempts at adding to original recipe "mma". thats our ceiling, hope a goal falls in our lap or a draw will be enough.

    if greggs the guy, lets at least use the most "effective" version.
     
  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Have you revised your opinion at all of Scally?
     

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