Though I am a recovering Haji doubter (and current Haji as LW doubter), the Haji-as-LW and Pulisic at RW dynamic is interesting. Pulisic and Weah on the right seems like a good combo (or Reyna and Weah), but I struggle a bit with the Jedi and Haji combo on the left. I think you'd HAVE to put Reyna underneath them or it'd become a wasteland in terms of service and ball control. I think I'd rather just go two striker, frankly, but it would have the edge of a lot more directness and verticality, which might fit our opponents better.
I wouldn't move McKennie, I'm either starting Weah at his normal position, or moving him to RWB, McKennie can stay in central, maybe move to RWB if necessary if Weah has to sub out (I still think he probably starts Scally, and keeps Weah at RWF, I don't think he wants to move him away from RWF unless Scally proves to be a catastrophe in training or in those friendlies).
This is what you should have led with. This I understand, even if I don't agree with GGG. We've stuck to a certain role and anyone that can fill it even if it's sub-par. I like the idea of getting the best players out there as long as it's not a huge difference in style/position.
I would not. Sargent's goal scoring form for the USMNT is abysmal, and I love Sargent. Balo's struggled in this set up period, and is coming off a disappointing season (even if he would have been on double digit goals with competent PK scoring rate), Pepi scored in March '23 for NL, scored in the SF in June '23, and broke the deadlock with a gorgeous goal nobody ever talks about (why?) against T&T in the final 10 or 11 minutes when nobody could score and we were up a man. He's the most consistent goal scorer we have with the A side and has been so for 3 years. He's got his ups and downs, but he is the best most reliable goal scorer we have. I don't think it matters, I think Berhalter goes with Balo or Wright anyway, maybe Sargent, but I think he would be wrong. We'll see. I still think he goes to the Olympics anyway, otherwise why did they use him from promo's? But maybe I'm wrong on that.
I realize I'm in a Best XI thread, but I think it's pretty clear that Sargent is a significantly better player now than he was in December of 2022. I don't know that his prior goalscoring record is all that relevant anymore. Balogun's got 3g and 2a in 600 minutes, so his productivity, despite the narrative, isn't bad at all. In fact, it's pretty good.
I tend to think that was mostly because against Jamaica Balo was his usual non scoring self, Pepi had his worst performance since WCQ, and Wright scored two critical late goals. I don't think it was anything other than Balo is just not working, Pepi suddenly stunk it up, and Wright is hot at Coventry and he finally broke through his meh performances with a great performance against Jamaica (I actually think he was pretty good against the Dutch, w/one, real ugly mistouch).
This is a fair assessment. I would like to be proven right, if for no other reason than now we'd have top-level quality starting and depth.
I think everyone's aware that Weah's club career as an attacker has been crap. Other than a loan to Celtic, he couldn't break through at Lille beyond some late season goals in spring '22, at Juve they brought him in more as a RWF/RWB double option, he played pretty well during the summer but couldn't string together great games as a starter or a sub so they're gonna move on this summer or loan him out I would imagine. The reason he's a big deal for us is because he is goal dangerous and provides the vertical element. He produces a ton of xG, and xGA with his crossing, interplay and willingness to put the ball on frame from distance/just outside the box etc. A good example of why he got the job and held it, and how it looks in counting stats is his performance against Mexico to start Window 3 of qualifying, he's flat out ridiculous in the game, doesn't get on the counting stats game, but this is the game that got him the gig: Tim Weah WCQ vs Mexico 11/12/21 (youtube.com) This is what he bringing and why he won the job, goals and assists or not (and this is a good example of how a guy can finish with not a lot of counting stats and yet produce a crap ton of xG and xGA for a team).
*That Aaronson is in better attacking form. He is not. Weah was the best attacking player we had in MF/Forward and qualifying in generating goal scoring chances. Aaronson bested him in couting stats but not in the deeper analytics piece (xG/xGA etc) and he did it while only playing in 10 qualifiers. *That Weah wasn't good at the WC beyond a nice goal. The guy scored on Wales, put a ball in vs Iran that was an inch offsides and produced one of only a handful of chances on frame against Netherlands in the first half, for a team that scored all of 2 non-miracle goals at the WC. He was one of the few attacking players at the WC that was actually good there. Saying he wasn't good beyond a nice goal is silly. The attack sucked and he and Pulisic were the only pieces of said attack that functioned well in all 4 games. *Aaronson should absolutely not be starting at RWF. Berhalter has built the RWF position with a focus on verticality and what Weah brings, he's exactly what Berhalter has wanted there. A guy with defensive work rate, a cannon of a shot, crossing, elite pace, and the ability to connect all of the game model he's building. I don't think anyone thinks Aaronson is an MLS lifer. Sure, someone posted a bit of a hyperbolic take ("is he just a Bundesliga B player," at this point take which was odd considering he's producing the best #'s he's produced in at least 2 years) recently, but I think most people think Aaronson was very good at his gig with Marsch and his replacement at RB Salzburg culminating in a nice performance in a CL knockout match was it January '22? I can't remember, but it was great. He's been solid, like Weah, he's not really a counting stats guy, theathletic did a nice write up on what he could bring to Leeds before the roof caved in: Brenden Aaronson: why Leeds pushed hard for signing and what USMNT midfielder will bring - The Athletic (nytimes.com) If you don't subscribe, here's probably the two biggest takeaway's of what interested Leeds in January of '22 and why.... "... Skillcorner’s analysis shows that in a typical 90-minute game, Aaronson will cover an average of 10.7km, ranking him in the top five midfielders in Austria’s Bundesliga to have played 10 or more games this season. That is in line with some of the best 90-minute distances registered by players in the Premier League — potential Elland Road colleague Adam Forshaw, for instance, was hitting 10.9km after his return from injury — and the numbers impressed Leeds, who consistently rack up more kilometres than any other team in England’s top division. Aaronson is a committed and active presser and 27.2 pressures per 90 minutes, as calculated by Statsbomb via FBref, is on a par with the very best of Europe’s attacking midfielders — in the top two per cent across the big five European leagues. "....His high-speed running is relentless too. He is not an especially great defender, but his energy, as part of a deliberate press, suggests his running off the ball helps team-mates to position themselves and step in rather than relying on specific interventions from Aaronson himself.....[When playing with the ball]...the picture that develops is, as Leeds concluded, similar to that painted by many of Klich’s displays. Aaronson is a low-involvement player in the sense that there are others on the pitch who touch the ball and pass it far more than him. An average of 30.5 passes per 90 is low for a player in his position, but while Klich posts a higher average of 43.6 per 90, it is only marginally above the bottom third. The key for footballers with passing stats like theirs is to ensure that quality eclipses quantity. Aaronson’s progressive passing is also limited and as the smarterscout graphic details below, he prefers neater, shorter passes leading to a high volume of link-up play — again, like Klich. This is where things stood two years ago, of course since then his valuation has dropped by half after a miserable experience at Leeds and a battle to finally win a starting job with Union Berlin on Loan by late winter of '24...I still like Aaronson, I still think he's a big 5 league player on the continent, though I'd love to see him in the Eredivisie as well, but regardless I like and respect the kid, and consider him a part of the pool, but definitely not a starter. He's a piece that works in some game models, not in others, and I don't view as a starter unless multiple WF's and/or CM's are injured. I don't really understand what you're saying in that last sentence. Not sure what you mean? But I posted a lot of takes in a half hour so maybe I forgot something I said. Not sure what you mean. But if you're suggesting I don't see him as a starter? No, I don't, he's a backup for me. But a ton of guys I really like are. Balo is behind Pepi for me, I'd start Reyna and leave Musah on the bench depending upon game model (for Musah, not Reyna, Reyna is an auto starter for me).
Rep for bringing stats to the argument, even if we have different conclusions. And I'm looking forward to seeing an in-form Aaronson in Copa. Who knows if he starts, but I'm thinking he will have produce some key moments for the US.
This is how I would lineup the USMNT in these friendlies. I believe this is our current best 11, but we have yet to see how they play in a set up like this.Sargent has a strong shout to start over Balogun as well. I’d be happy with either starting up top. pic.twitter.com/LQ3QIA7Tbd— Caleb Adams (@itscalebadams) May 20, 2024 Swap Gio and Wes. That makes the 2323/3223 attacking shape: Haji Balo Weah Gio Pulisic Jedi Johnny Wes Ream Richards
Wes’s natural position is kind of an open question with the best answer being, “All over the place, except sole pivot in buildup, CB, and ST.” Wes played RB against Jamaica. For Juve he spends a ton of time in the RWB role. In our system he can easily be at RCM in attack and RB in defense.
Scally is a replacement level BL RB who isn’t good enough at defending or attacking to be a specialist who one could build a system around to maximize. He’s just a dude. Getting better play out of that spot, when Joe Scally is the first choice natural RB, could absolutely be a meaningful improvement for our team. Like Chile wanted to play that cocaine ball with a back 3 but didn’t have decent marking backs so they played DMs there and they started their run. Scally at RB is just a minutes eater while Dest is out. Best case is that Malik goes off and we go two free 8s and then keep Jedi and Joe deeper in midfield (but even then I’d prefer Wes over Joe). Maybe a very defensive backline against Brazil where Jedi and Joe stay back but wider (the Maradona style back four he tried when he managed Argentina) and then free up the front 6.
I do think it starts to get a little crazy for a Dest Injury. Not that qualifying went well, it didn't, but we played without Dest for a game of window 1 for injury, and all of window 3 (2 games) and all of window 5 (3 games) our best window of the cycle and he wasn't available for our June '22 friendlies (that stretch that I always felt was the best our attack ever looked: March '22 and June '22 minus the monsoon game in El Salvador). Losing Dest was brutal, he's a top 6 guy to me we couldn't afford to lose along with Reyna, Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, and Weah, but as another poster suggested, we probably shouldn't be accidentally creating 3 problems by trying to solve one RB problem. I also think Berhalter is likely to experiment in camp just to see what flipping Wright, Pulisic, Weah, McKennie and maybe Aaronson into different roles can do (I might say Sargent too but honestly I think he sees Sargent as a pure striker because of his great collection of average and better talent/jack of all trades skill set he has for the position)...but I also think he's gonna come away with: start Scally, and if need be, experiment in a friendly to see the efficacy of another approach, but I still think the only change is gonna be Scally to RB, and change w/that is only gonna happen if there's a clear breakdown and failure in performance issue with Scally starting. I think what we probably see is: Pulisic/Wright/Aaronson at LWF Weah/Pulisic/Wright at RWF RB: Scally/Weah/Moore and everything else probably stays as is. Would be funny if he tried Adams at RB five years after the idea emerged but I doubt he does that. If there's one piece in my above projection I think might not be true its Pulisic at RWF, I think he might just switch that with Wright as the backup RWF and have Aaronson also as a backup there. Not sure what he will do of course, but its interesting to imagine. I think I could live with Wright as RWF, and Weah as RB or RWB too as both have played there before in the past, especially Weah, so is it possible he just starts Wright at RWF, and Weah behind him if Scally just isn't up for it, and that's how it gets addressed? Maybe. I don't think he puts McKennie at RWB.
While I think Sargent could break out of his multi year dry spell, I disagree w/Caleb that you're quoting simply from the standpoint that we haven't seen Sargent score on the regular w/US senior teammates at all since like '18 and '19. I just don't see how you can throw him out there after all the chances he got in '19, and '21, and again at the WC. It just wasn't happening. We do have a similar problem with Balo, but at least he's scored some, and I am a firm supporter of Pepi as the striker simply because he keeps scoring in the shirt on the regular. Only time he hasn't done it multiple windows in a row has been during WCQ in Window's 3-5, and that last chance he got in sub mins in fall '22. He was productive window 1 and 2 of qualifying, and again in NL in 'March, June and November of '23. I just think his understanding and finishing w/the A side is just better, period, than the rest of them. I also think there's an argument if you don't agree w/that as a Berhalter, that you just consider opponent, and use the guy that best fits per matchup as most of these guys are pretty different stylistically. Balo and Wright work better in open games with a lot of countering (so probably Uruguay and Brazil) Pepi is the best target man we have with solid box skills, distribution and hold up play and is solid at counters too. Sargent is kind of a poor man's Pepi in terms of goal scoring, but offers a similar swiss army knife collection of skills that like Pepi probably work better to break down a box/half court, low block scenario or more defensively compact situation (Bolivia, Panama). I don't know how Colombia plays so I'm not sure who fits best for that. I dont think any of these guys has done enough, other than Pepi, to justify starting regardless of game model, and I can see why some might disagree w/Pepi.
It's pretty simple. JAVez IMO you're basically undervaluing what Weah does for the US -- goals/assists per90 or whatever broad overview you're using for both guys who don't impact much in terms of raw stats, that is not the argument that anyone is using to play him in an advanced role for the US. And no one is saying he's "irreplaceable". It's that simple. In fact if you were paying attention, you'd notice I just said I think that in the face of the Dest injury moving him to RB does make sense. But I won't engage in the same minimization on how he uses his skillset just because Dest is injured. Especially not based on goal tallies... Weah starts because his skillset and role IS unique, he's done it for the US, and it helps the US attack. Aaronson's play in a much worse league at a much, much, much worse club is not as relevant as you believe here. He is. No one did.
I think there will be some real competition in practice with several spots up for grabs and others fluid where players might get moved if a player doesn't look good enough. First is right back. Is Scally good enough that th rest of the team isn't disrupted? If not then who does play there McKinnie, Weah, Musah or Moore. Could even a CB play there and do the opposite of how we used to play with ream as a hydbrid LB / LCB and Jedi more free to attack? Next is if Weah is the choice does someone take his spot at RW or does Pulisic slide over and maybe Wright starts at LW and does the opposite of Weah on the right by pushing the defenders deeper? CB also has competition for spots especially if Richards is the right back hybrid. Could be some serious swapping depending on opponent but get too cute with moving parts and everyone will look lost.
this would be a lot more believable had juventus not bought him. im almost positive there arent a lot of usmnt homers who ignore club play in their front office.
It is worthy of note that the best team in the SPL saw him worth bringing in for a loan, Lille, bought him as a part of an effort to make CL, did so, and even won the league while he was there earning thousands of minutes, and then Juve bought him after he was mehish with Lille so he could fill multiple roles. These clubs are orders of magnitude more significant than Leeds and RBL. Otoh, Aaronson was rumored to be drawing interest from Milan and RBL back in '21-'22, so maybe he was close to that level and just didn't get the move. We know since then his play has fallen off and perceptions of his level have dimmed. I'd argue Weah has never really broken through like he has for the US, but he's been a 1500 min-2500 minute RWF, RW, RWB option for multiple elite championship winning caliber clubs in Ligue 1, Serie A and Scotland. I don't think its really debatable, and they are really exceptionally different players to me offering different skill sets.
on sarge- i agree he has matured and filled in as a player (with plenty of growth still possible), but i think you have to treat it like tillman, for example- he shouldnt move past anyone on some fictional depth chart until he does it at the national team level. johnny gave us pretty empty minutes for 8 or 9 starts, has been generally positive for a couple but nowhere near (statistically) top 3 cm in la liga good. yet. im not saying sarge has to start at jan camp and work his way up, im just saying his season with norwich doesnt completely override his nt career to date. which has been fine for me. as for balo i also agree in a very general sense- hes clearly a very talented player. but hes not a good fit, and with our (relative to our own history) absolute abundance of capable strikers those numbers dont compare all that favorably. going by play with the national team over the last year or so the order is pretty clear- pepi, wright, balo, sarge. thats very different than the perceived order the manager sees them in. thats a little concerning for me.
I don't agree w/you about Aaronson vs Weah even a little, so I'm not sure why I'd lead with your line of reasoning. We have some areas of agreement, I think we're both open to changes, but the changes we make would be different, and we evaluate these guys very differently as well in terms of what they bring to the team.
well, ill argue with myself for fun- he was starting as the 10 for lille in the preseason, maybe first match...some year ago but was injured, so who knows how that could have gone. his club career has been as uneven as anyones due to injury. but sure, lets go with underwhelming across the board (not attributing that argument to you)... juve didnt bring him in based on proven play with his former clubs. or his best play for the us. its because hes got of those glimpses, those periods of success but also his ++tools and potential. now im sure you understand that, and i understand that, but im not seeing that in these strictly counting number comparisons with zero nuance. anyone not realizing the substantial difference in how weah and aaronson play arent worth arguing with. anyone saying anyone other than possibly paredes and cowell (in our entire pool) bring what weah does- what makes him "unique"- are making fundamentally poor arguments. but i will say, ironically, its a great time to make those poor arguments. with dest not currently available to clog that space they need to use to be fully productive (to their own levels), aaronson, reyna, a wide striker, etc are very reasonable options to talk about on the right- whereas with dest its a known and repeatedly proven problem. but ill be damned if bs isnt just dead set on repeating problems over and over and over cause theyre bored, or got distracted by a butterfly, or alex zendejas scored a few goals in mexico...
When I looked into it Tim Weah had played, by some measure, the hardest set of opponents of any of our attackers last cycle. His avg minute came against a team with an Elo rating right where Morocco currently sits. Aaronson’s average minute came against a Tunisia level opponent.
We tend to be on the same page alot. One of the reasons I posted the Weah vs Mexico WC Qualifier from Window 3 was precisely because it shows exactly how Weah plays in the role and needless to say it is nothing remotely like how Aaronson plays. Superficially they both attack and defend a ton, but how they do it is nothing remotely alike in no small part due to their differing strengths and weaknesses, and build. Basically Weah is a power/speed player, I don't know why it hasn't translated to club, my old argument was that he just wasn't consistent and disappeared too much, but he stopped doing that for the US (if he ever did much) years and years ago. Maybe he doesn't quite have the technical skills or his clubs are more demanding or he's been hurt too much, I don't know. But it's pretty damn clear what Berhalter wants from him by just watching that highlight clip of his all touches against Mexico 2.5 years ago because you can see those performances repeatedly, he looked similar in the NL Final in '21 and '23, he looked similar at the WC. He's stretching defenses, beating his man, crossing or working inside if there's a shot opportunity, he's using similar tricks to try and beat guys around the box and pop up looping fat parabolaish chipped crosses into danger into the box etc. He's speed, power, deftness (that's sometimes not as impressive as he thinks) and loads of energy to go with that cannon shot, and a flair for chasing down guys on D. He doesn't play like Aaronson really at all, even a little. Aaronson is a pressing machine, he has great ball skills but tends to struggle to beat his man, he doesn't find the crossing game interesting, if he crosses it's on the ground and short, smacked back across the box, rather than up and into like Weah, he finishes junk yard chances off rebounds and deflections or off balls sent on the ground into the box off his smart runs. He's a kind of connector too, he can play a little CM but he doesn't see the ball enough to be effective at it, and he doesn't beat his guy with dribbles enough to be effective on the wings so he can be nebulous but he adds a lot of disruption pressing, and with his short passing game. His closest match is probably Pulisic, but he isn't close to what Pulisic does, so he's basically a swiss army knifer winger/cm, who has clear liabilities and strengths, he's a guy you bring in for a very specific collection of jobs against specific types of teams. Weah you can play against anyone, and especially against teams that like to have the ball, but he works against everyone because even if its a low block, he's a good crosser, and his willingness to blast from 20-35 yards out, and accurately pulls defenses a bit out of their low blocks. Just not similar guys to me, and Weah's work on the RWF position especially on his good days pulls guys out of position and opens up opportunity (but he can also cause problems with Dest by creating big gaps in the D during their runs).
Playing for the team would be a good way to do that. Sargent hasn’t played for the USMNT since the Iran game. Hard to break a multi-year dry spell when you don’t play a single minute for multiple years! I don’t totally agree with how you describe these players. Sargent to me just looks and plays much more robustly than Pepi. He’s both more of a target and more of a combiner. That’s why Gregg took him. Pepi still needs to fill out and I don’t think he excels under contact. He is good at directing headers though. I also think Ricardo’s lack of reps has led him to be a little insistent in his decision making, a little too hungry/needy. I think he does have a better instinct for ST movement than Josh and maybe a bit more pace for a counter. I do not think there are significant differences in overall effectiveness between them and there won’t be until one takes the next step and learns how to succeed against big league competition. As I said elsewhere Sargent’s chronic ankle injury is not healed and there’s a good chance he won’t make the gameday rosters.