Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Holmes is an attacking mid, so is Reyna. Pomykal and Aaronson are box-to-box CMs who are better at attacking. Morales should be thinking retirement at this point, and if he was barely international quality a few years back, it's doubtful he's that now.

    Neither Sands nor Williamson are international quality at this point, and the usefulness of Yeuill beyond CONCACAF is unlikely.

    After Adams/McKennie in midfield, the drop is significant.
     
  2. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    I don’t think Morales is that far behind McKennie, but yeah after that we’re remarkably thin.
     
  3. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Morales is that far behind McKennie. He's always underwhelmed w/ the NT. Can't keep up w/ opposition to be a destroyer. Nor is he a deep lying playmaker.

    Holmes is hardly tethered to being an attacking mid. He actually has higher ratings as an 8 and 6 this season. He's a jack of all trades, master of none type. You don't want him as 1 of your top 4 breaking down a d. Remains to be seen if he can help as an 8, but deserves a few shots, and if he's going to hit it's there.

    Pomykal & Aaronson are versatile. They're whatever you need them to be - 10, 8, winger. Could probably tcb at fb if need be. Their versatility is a strength not a weakness. Remains to be seen what they can do w/ the NT, but they're also ready for the shots now, and we should be optimistic they can be assets.

    We're in great shape at the 10, 8, and 6 when all these guys get integrated. And thankfully we have the time.

    Unfortunately Gregg wants to play a soft 6 behind two cm's who are ass-backward defensively. Doesn't cater to our better talents, instead exposing us to the likes of Yueill & Bradley as a 6, while being an ass backward system to begin w/ if you aren't dominant in possession. Protect your back line.
     
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  4. dams

    dams Member+

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    Ledezma is my dark horse. The three guys that most impressed me at the U-20 WC were Richards, Dest, and Ledezma. He was coming off an injury and was not in game shape, but when he got in the game he immediately changed the dynamic for the better. He needs to get stronger but hopefully that will come.

    It's tough not to feel optimistic about the direction of the program on a macro level when you start looking at really solid players in the attack and midfield who may have problems seeing the field. It's a good problem to have, now we just need to have that issue with the center backs and keeper.
     
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  5. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    What I liked about the logic of Bob's system was that the strikers facilitated for Dempsey and Donovan, not the other way round.

    Even a team, like France, that had access to high level striking talent simply used Giroud to facilitate for Mbappe and Griezmann.

    The US should be built around facilitating the efforts of the top scorers.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Richie Ledezma is probably our best offensive straight 10 prospect in a while.

    Richie's challenge to a regular starting role is going to be Gio Reyna, though, as well as the emergence of attacking fullbacks.

    Reyna could very well explicitly end up in a CAM role, or at minimum, he's likely to end up playing in the same space as Ledezma. With Pulisic's preference to come inside, that part of the field is going to be crowded.

    Offensive talents emerging at the fullback position are going to push the progression even further. With Dest able to play in and out and Robinson making it even more sensible to move Pulisic commonly into the half space, the actual center mids are FAR more likely to take a shuttler/b2b role and sit back a bit in the attack.

    If you have five attackers across the frontline and the fullbacks, you are looking for a more balanced player in central midfield.

    Of course, if he really becomes an incredibly dynamic attacker, you try and find a way. But during the U20 World Cup, the spot looked pretty open if Pulisic moved to the wing ... there's suddenly a decent amount of competition for both the position and more importantly, the role.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    With Pulisic and Reyna/Morris as wingers, you absolutely can have a facilitator at striker. Giroud is the dream version of that, though.
     
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  8. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Pomykal is a much more defensively-oriented player than Aaronson. They do not have similar styles.
     
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  9. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Zardes comes closest to the Giroud model of cf, albeit Zardes doesnt play defense very well as a cf. As a mid he was good at positioning but those days are long gone. Ebobisse is a difficult one to gauge. College guys mature later. Look how long it took Morris to develop a left foot. But Ebo has two years to grow.
     
  10. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    zardes cant win balls, lay balls off or hold possession. other than that? sure, just like giroud.
     
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  11. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no no he doesn’t. Zardes has no hold up game, his passing is trash and his touch is trash. Giroud’s hold up game is WC, his first touch is great and he’s very good passing in tight spaces. Literally never been said about Zardes. Zardes runs hard and presses. Giroud doesn’t. He’s commands a space. Completely polar opposites of style.
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I'm just suggesting the team not be locked into trying to create for a striker if that striker isn't one of the top attackers in the team.

    At club level, 3G's tactic's were geared towards generating scoring opportunities for the strikers. And to his credit, he had success with 3 very different strikers. I don't know if generating chances for Altidore, Zardes, or Sargent should be the focal point of the NT's attack, though. And under Berhalter, Pulisic has 0 goals and 1 assist in 4 matches against decent sides.
     
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  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I've never seen Giroud score with his nose.
     
  14. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Can you explain how you came to this conclusion please?
     
  15. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    I preferred Holmes as a Dmid for Derby. Unfortunately he was displaced by Rooney as a DLP.
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I watch MLS as much as possible, and I'm quite aware it's not a Top 20 league. In general, players in that position (DM/defensive CM) who don't show clearly above the level of the league, I classify as not being International Grade yet.
     
  17. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Transfermarkt values has MLS as top 15 by my count, and it is our baseline being the domestic league. You would just need to stand out among American players anyway.

    Williamson doesn't yet, but Sands does as a cb. He typically out-plays the attackers, where a good majority of the financial investment is made & is foreign. So it's certainly debatable he's not int'l quality. We're at the pt we should find out. I think you're being presumptuous.
     
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  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Their transfermarkt values are inflated by DPs. Many clubs values are is made up of more than 50% DPs. Roughly two thirds of the Galaxy's value is in Chicharito, Pavon, and dos Santos. Better teams could be created by spreading a portion of that value over 10 players.

    Why can't you guys get that the majority of American MLS players aren't good enough for this level. The ones that are are generally Zusi level talents. If we had a coach the selected players on talent, a player would need to currently be in the top 3 to 5 American MLS players to have a chance. There is a reason that when we had a coach that could id talent that he didn't need more than January camp to figure out who belongs.
     
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  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    MLS is top-15ish in terms of salary, which is a solid proxy for quality in between and within UEFA leagues.
     
  20. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Not when you blow 90% of your salary on 3 players.
     
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  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i couldnt disagree more. each team has 5-7 guys making roughly comprable salaries to overseas (including some overpaid dps) and then 20 guys (after 25 years of slow growth) making around what an average dentist does, compared to a fedex worker for most of mls' history.

    and the easiest way to see that is watching ccl. liga mex has much stronger rosters than mls does.

    there are a ton of variables and nuance factoring in with mls' general goofiness, but a 30 mil galaxy roster is VASTLY different than the same overall salaried pumas or bristol city or whoever.

    eta: what @bsky22 said
     
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  22. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS's salary structure is entirely different than any league it get compared to.

    Talk about apples to oranges.

    I would remove the DP salaries and the top 3 salaries from a club abroad before drawing any real comparisons.

    I first XI full of 2M/Y players will be vastly superior to a team with three 6M players and everyone else 200K. And yes those numbers are a generalization and don't account for TAM.

    And that's why I don't even like comparing MLS teams to C'Ship sides. A theoretical one-off match is one thing. Could LAFC beat Fulham in a one-off match with something on the line. Would be pretty interesting. But the quality/depth needed to survive a full season in the C'Ship I don't think many MLS teams have. ATL loses Josef to injury and they look League One level. Essentially, MLS roster structures are extremely fragile and limited compared to other leagues.
     
  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    These values (and salaries) for MLS teams is pretty useless. Just a short tournament after a break and stange circumstances, but the finalist were mid table and the semifinalists were basically one team around the top five and one bottom four.

    Finalists
    10 Portland Timbers - $25.63m
    16 Orlando City SC - $21.70m

    Semifinalists
    6 New York City FC - $30.39m
    24 Philadelphia Union - $16.09m

    Are comparable valued Liga MX seem be much better than MLS counterpart (I stopped after the first 6 franchises)

    # Club League - Current value
    1 Atlanta United FC - $57.48m vs Chivas
    2 Los Angeles FC - $55.17m vs Santos Laguna
    3 Inter Miami CF - $41.42m vs Tijuana
    4 Los Angeles Galaxy - $30.77m vs Pumas
    5 Toronto FC - $30.61m vs Jaurez
    6 New York City FC - $30.39m vs Toluca
    7 Seattle Sounders FC - $29.29m
    8 Sporting Kansas City - $26.32m
    9 Columbus Crew SC - $26.26m
    10 Portland Timbers - $25.63m
    11 FC Cincinnati - $23.54m
    12 Chicago Fire FC - $23.24m
    13 D.C. United - $22.99m
    14 FC Dallas - $22.22m
    15 Montreal Impact - $22.17m
    16 Orlando City SC - $21.70m -
    17 New England Revolution - $21.07m
    18 New York Red Bulls - $20.87m
    19 Houston Dynamo - $20.24m
    20 Colorado Rapids - $19.55m
    21 Vancouver Whitecaps FC - $19.25m
    22 Minnesota United FC - $18.10m
    23 San Jose Earthquakes - $16.17m
    24 Philadelphia Union - $16.09m
    25 Real Salt Lake City - $15.37m
    26 Nashville SC - $14.99m



    https://www.transfermarkt.us/major-league-soccer/marktwerteverein/wettbewerb/MLS1

    https://www.transfermarkt.us/liga-mx-clausura/startseite/wettbewerb/MEX1
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It is like making a team with a few division 1 players, a bunch of the team of division 2 players and the rest division 3+ players.

    Can anyone imagine guys like Roldan or Mihaelovic succeding in the Championship?
     
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  25. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Is nonsensical, as though 'overseas' were some monolithic level.
     
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