Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I can see that. If you want to go with Zardes you can also bring Sargent. That I agree with. The problem with Zardes and Altidore is the team can play or has to play so different with each on the field. So, Zardes and Sargent or Altidore and Sargent would be the choices.

    I do think Pulisic and Reyna would be hampered having to play with Zardes. Zardes is not terrible at the give and go actually (less he thinks the better like many of us); but I do think he is one dimensional and would limit what the players around him can do. Maybe the defense and transition opportunities make up for it.

    But you are right, the GC choice of Altidore and Zardes doesn't work.
     
  2. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    CF's have different styles/abilities. Sargent does not play the style Berhalter likes. He isnt a good fit for the "system". Sargent will be 26 in 2026. That should be his time. Sargent had a difficult assignment in Bremen and he gave it his all and improved over the year and secured his manager's confidence. One can put too much emphasis on scoring totals just as one can put too little. Green scored on Belgium and France. Nobody in the BL wants him.
     
  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I'm not sure about that. Gregg has played with very different CFs and asked them to do different things. Ignoring a 20 yo Bundesliga starter, who starred for YNTs, would seem to be a poor choice for the program. Gregg should figure out how to maximize such players, not toss them aside for older, limited players.
     
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Berhalter has run out each of the four strikers differently, with the last being a literal false 9.

    There’s no sign he’s only using one type of striker or discarding Sargent.
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  5. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Post-Lockdown Sargent has shown lots of improvement, looks a different player than earlier in the season and has shown he is willing and able to conform to a team game plan. He was already getting minutes for the US and was in the running for a starting role. I see no reason he won't be in the mix for a starting striker role for this team once the national team gets back together. We've had several players really shine since the break and it will be interesting to see how they come together for the US once we get the chance to see it.
     
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    One 3G's few elite accomplishments has been successfully working with a wide variety of strikers. Kai Kamara, Ola Kamara, and Zardes are very different strikers.
     
  7. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sargent would be my starter unless someone else is just ridiculous in camp. Zardes, Altidore and Ferreira (for now) all play differently and that could be useful depending on the opponent. Since no forwards has clearly established themselves as the clear cut starter a rotation based on each game could prove useful as could having different styles to sub in when the starter isn’t working. Jozy would be useful when going up against weaker teams when the US controls the game and pressing isn’t that important. Zardes when pressing is the biggest point. I liked how Ferreira looked in his one game and he’s a definite curveball. Sargent is the all a-rounder and should get most starts.
     
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  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What’s your formation? Are Morris and Reyna still starting? Thanks.
     
  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    what are you talking about? I didn't criticize him.
     
  10. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    If we're starting with a single forward then I'd reluctantly start Altidore.
     
  11. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Sargent would be my starter going forward in most games. But, an important game in CONCACAF playing on the road when we needs points and will be slugging it out on some crappy field with refs looking at everything but the game? Jozy isn't a bad option in games where we know he's likely to knock one in and we are desperate for points. I'd certainly have no problem throwing him on off the bench if Sargent isn't accomplishing anything.
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #3712 Clint Eastwood, Jul 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
    Unfortunately.............the options aren't great.
    Right now the starting forward for the USMNT scored 4 goals for a relegation-threatened Bundesliga team. He has scored only 6 goals total in his club career in first team soccer.

    I don't care about his age and what he's going to be like in 2026. As we start WCQing, what do we have right now? That's what we have. We don't have Brian McBride in his prime. We don't even have Jozy in his prime. We have a prospect. Prospect is latin for "really hasn't done anything yet." Its disconcerting. There's no point sugarcoating it.

    I start Sargent, but I have a short hook. Based on MLS play in the 2nd half of last season, my #2 is Jordan Morris.

    The good news is that we have reasons to be really excited about other areas of the team. I mean, Pulisic is turning into a beast. Pulisic is the type of player that should make those around him better. I'm more excited about Dest than I've been about any young wingback/fullback in the past 30 years.

    There will always, always, always be positions in a national team that are more question marks than others. You can't go out and sign a new centerback if the pool is dry. Right now for the USMNT my top three concerns are forward, centerback, and goalkeeper. Yes, goalkeeper. Because after Steffen.................I guess our #2 was a bench player in Belgium this season. Not Serie A; Belgium. The U23 pool is pretty barren. There are some kids in the U20s that we like, but they're pretty far from the USMNT.
     
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  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd go 4-3-3 and Reyna would be up for right winger or left mid. I'll trust the coaches to decide if he's ready and if they don't play him and the player who took his spot looks like crap I'll jump all over the coach. :D

    The 4-3-3 puts a lot of responsibility on some of the players to make good reads on whether they should drop or fill gaps. If they can't do it then go 4-2-3-1 until they mature more but it seems a lot of them play it for their club and I like the interplay like say if Pulisic cuts in and Reyna or Pomykal or Dest fills that left wing gap he vacated.

    It's actually become a fortune reader's guess because it's been so long since the team has been together and played. It seemed to be improving with rumored callups in March but everything was scuppered and who knows when they get their next chance. Meanwhile some of the players are getting games while those that don't and the coaches are getting rated on stuff from 6-9 months ago.
     
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  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    USMNT situation at this point:

    ---------------------------BAD--------------------------
    OK-------------BAD-------WEAK-------------HOPE
    --------------------HOPE----WEAK-------------------
    OK-----------------------OK--------------------GOOD+
    ---------------------------BAD---------------------------

    BAD = No in-form players in that position at a good level.

    WEAK = Single in-form player at that level is inconsistent/injury prone.

    OK = Good enough for CONCACAF.

    HOPE = At least one player in that position is in-form at a good level and with some hope it can be good.

    GOOD = Good enough for World Cup.

    Note: in CM I rate Weston McKennie as HOPE because he shows some characteristics needed in a NT player: leadership, 'grit' & adaptability. So I hope he can become World Cup class. It's 50/50 at this point.

    I'm rating Adams WEAK because I don't see him as completely recovered and I'm afraid he's somewhat fragile.

    I see Pulisic on the left, obviously.
     
  15. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Pulisic doesn't make anybody around him better at Chelsea. He scores goals. Those around him make Pulisic better.
     
  16. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    All of the players were thinking of adding are not difference makers at the international level (Sargent, Jozy, long, Miazga). Adding a marginal attacker doesn’t really improve an offense while adding a marginal defender can actually stiffen a defense as adding structure and limiting space makes it easier to defend.

    you never answered my question on how to rate our defenders.
     
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  17. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Only one of those guys is playing in your favorite "major league" description. He's also the youngest, and has the most upside of any mentioned.

    Further, from what I've seen this season with his hold up and combo play, that is exactly what would benefit our best offensive players.

    Not sure what the question was. The one where you said "how would you rank them" and the proceeded to rank them in all sorts of buckets, including midfielders? I don't get the question really, but the only defenders I really want on the field are Brooks, dest, and Robinson. Cannon and yedlin are fine, too. Miazga is my favorite of the rest of the CBs. Apparently most think long is great, but from what I can tell, he had a good half season and that's about it. From the limited I've seen from him, he's nothing special. I'm not one to be as obsessed with needing a speed guy with Brooks, like that's super important.

    Certainly, since I think our current crop of CBs is pretty weak, I'd rather not start a 3rd while sacrificing one of our best prospects currently making his way in a top league.
     
  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    So... just to be clear:

    Zack Steffen is BAD.
    Tyler Adams and Brooks are WEAK.
    Players like Reyna, Dest and Morris are merely good enough for CONCACAF.
    Players like Long, Miazga, Sargent, Altidore are not good enough for CONCACAF.

    Gotcha.

    If Christian Pulisic is the only player "good enough for the World Cup" I am really scratching my head at how prior teams performed so well at the World Cup.

    This is absurdly, laughably negative.

    And if you believe this, and we qualify for the WC, I'll just assume you will write a long ode to Gregg Berhalter, miracle worker? Because apparently this roster is terrible.
     
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  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    OK is good enough for CONCACAF, hence HOPE and GOOD also are.

    Which means 6 out of 11 players are at least good enough for the average CONCACAF quals. Which makes us favorites to qualify as a Top 3, once we consider how weak the region is this cycle.

    The problem at that point is Egg. I hope he can learn on the job, otherwise I think he's been subpar until now.
     
  20. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    Not true. He’s not a slick creator like Sancho but his ability to consistently dribble into threatening positions create tons of space for others- like the run made and then simple pass that gave Willian the time and space to open his hips into the entire goal with only the keeper to beat (poor shot saved).

    He’s a disruptor. You’d better shift quickly and completely too him when he gets the ball. And if you do, it’s on his mates to switch quickly enough to take advantage of it.
     
  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Use this framework for Mexico and Costa Rica - what do you get?
     
  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #3722 DHC1, Jul 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
    I hope Sargent pans out but he had one major league season and he didn’t look like a difference maker (not terrible but in line with his relegation battling teammates). Next season will be very important for him. If he steps up, we can talk about swapping him for Morris in the attack.

    if we don’t have great CBs, we need to add more to our defense, not less.

    Similarly, our best outside backs are both better suited to being attacking options rather than defensive ones and therefore we will need to augment our defense.

    people (not you necessarily) talk about our challenges facing a bunker but we rarely if ever have a problem doing that. We need to get points off of Mexico and Costa Rica st home and at least a bunch of ties against all opponents on the road. A strong defense is a must for all of that.
     
  23. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Don't really have much of an argument, but I still wouldn't do it. I already don't think Long is good, I don't need him and Miazga both on the field just so we can get a tie away at Honduras or Panama. Not sure how many teams use wing backs, and I could be wrong, but it seems whenever we've done something similar, we just get pushed back so far it really just turns into a super defensive 5 at the back. Dest and Robinson are fullbacks that can get forward. No sense in changing that.

    If we can't defend capably with a back 4 and Adams/McKennie patrolling in front, then we have bigger issues than I thought. Shoot, Adams is basically the 3rd CB you want. 3 CBs with Adams/McKennie is just way too much.

    Plus, as I said before, I don't see Morris enhancing the games of our best players like Sargent can. His touch is bad, and he's more of a run behind the defense type. We need a striker to combine with CP and Reyna.
     
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  24. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    two points:
    1. the bolder part is key - I don’t think our best back four is defensively good. Three of the four defenders are more known for passing and attack than defense. Adding two rangy disruptive CMs is smart but not enough. We need to make this defense better and the best way to do that is defend with seven as opposed to six. However two of the defenders are good at and will be expected to help in the attack
    2. You seem to be arguing Sargent over Morris. I understand the argument but I would ride Morris while his form is hot. This is coming from someone who is frequently accused of “hating MLS” but a star MLS player (best XI candidate) is the type of player who could be better than a low end major league player. However, this is different from the structural point of defending with six or seven.
     
  25. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    No, I'm arguing about Sargent over your 3rd CB. Morris is on the field in an AM role on the wing, where he can use his straight line speed (and also play off Sargent).

    The argument comes down to "can we be successful defending with 6, or do we need 7". I'll roll with 6, you with 7.

    You'll get your 7 anyways, because Yeuill or Bradley will be there behind Wes/Adams :)
     

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