Berti's finally gone

Discussion in 'Scotland' started by Scottish_Morton, Nov 1, 2004.

  1. Scottish_Morton

    Jul 7, 2003
    Irvine, Scotland
    PERSONAL STATEMENT: BERTI VOGTS

    With great reluctance, myself and The Scottish Football Association, and in particular John McBeth and David Taylor, who have been a source of great strength and support, have made a joint decision to close this chapter in my life at the helm of Scottish International football.

    From my point of view, the decision has been made with a heavy heart as I have enjoyed my tenure at the hub of the Scottish Football Team and the warmth that I have experienced from the people of Scotland.

    I must say that the major factor in this decision has been the disgraceful abuse that I have suffered, especially of late. It has degenerated into a physical nature, especially on recent occasions where I have been spat upon. This is not acceptable behaviour in a civilised society and I know that the vast majority of Scots will join me in my disgust at this act by a very tiny minority. The abuse is something that people in public life must get used to, but now it is having a serious effect upon my home life. I cannot sit by, as no-one would, to be involved in the abuse that I have to endure. And it is this that has made this very hard decision inevitable.

    But what these actions have proved has been the unacceptable power of the tabloid press to influence its readership. The opinions expressed mostly by journalists with little knowledge of the game certainly had a great effect on some of the fans. This is despite the input into the debate by influential "football people" such as arguably the most successful manager ever in British football, Sir Alex Ferguson, Graham Souness, a great Scotland Captain and the Manager who was at the helm of Rangers through a golden time, where they became a force to be feared throughout Europe. I have also heard and read informed opinions of Scottish football greats such as Kenny Dalglish, Martin O'Neill, Alex McLeish and Tommy Docherty, who have enviable records in the game and are respected throughout football. And I am grateful to my fellow international manager, Mark Hughes, for his analysis. He is seen as the man who revived Welsh football, on an occasion to my detriment. And only this week my predecessor, Craig Brown, entered the debate. I must say that I thank him for his comments that from a man, who understands Scottish International football first hand, are most welcome.

    But I know that the opinions that have been expressed by a section of the press are not those of the majority of the Scottish people. The press have only expressed personal opinions. But it is impossible to have any right of reply in reality. In public life the media are in a position to make or break a person, and that cannot be justified.

    I have to say that I have been touched by the unreserved support that my players have given me, especially my Captain, Barry Ferguson. I was proud that they stood shoulder to shoulder with me, when it would have been easy to turn their backs. But when the going got tough, they stood firm. I am really proud of them all and eternally grateful for that unity that I experienced both in and out of the dressing room.

    Might I also say that it was not only I, but also the players who have been maligned by the press. They deserve better. They have been proud to serve their nation and did so to the very best of their abilities. I still have belief in my boys, all of them. I know that in time, and given support, they will develop into the team of my vision. They always gave their all, both for me and for Scotland. I could ask no more of them. I take away fond memories of my times with these men, some who I saw develop from boys into men, when they were thrown into the lions den.

    I also must give my sincere thanks to my staff and all at the SFA, especially my great assistant, Tommy Burns, whose expertise, professional input and loyalty can't be appreciated enough. The support they gave me was always 100%. It was not a job for them, but a cause to fight for, one they still believe passionately in. I have made lifelong friends amongst my Scottish colleagues. They will never fade from my memories. When my back was against the wall, I felt great strength from the staff that supported my efforts. They all know who I refer to and they are always welcome wherever I may be in this World.

    Good Luck Boys.

    Berti Vogts

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    Someone should have spat on him sooner :D

    His really is such a deluded little **************! He supports his 'boys'?! He and the people he says have supported him have done nothing but say they are the worst ever players to play for Scotland! He has the tactical knowledge of a monkey, sorry, that's being harsh on monkeys! He should admit that he has failed. We all knowthe Scotland job is very hard, but he could've done so much better! If you've watched Scotland under his reign you know will know he has been a failure! He couldn't motive them. In fact the only times they seemed to give 100% was when they beat Holland and drew with Germany. He went about the job in the wrong way, we can all see this.

    GOOD RIDDANCE BERTI, YOU LOSER!!!
     
  2. krause9

    krause9 New Member

    Mar 6, 2003
    It does not matter who coaches this team. You could put Maradona in his prime on this team and they would still finish behind Belarus in the group.

    Lets really examine why Scotland has had a fall from grace.
     
  3. Scottish_Morton

    Jul 7, 2003
    Irvine, Scotland
    Berti's not to blame for the state of Scottish football, but he's certainly not been helping. He gets paid over 500k a year to do a job someone could do for a tenth of the money. If you've not been watching all Scotland's matches then your not in a position to judge the job he's been doing. He constantly play players out of position, he changes the tactics all the time and brings players in out of nowhere, who haven't even been playing for their club. Like he did with Richard Hughes against Norway.

    I thought this article summed it up well - http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3109464/
     
  4. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    The opinions of the ignorant, not helpfull, not wanted.
     
  5. DarthTrickster

    DarthTrickster New Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    Inverness, Scotland
    This is a touch unfair, we have at times showed plenty of potential, only to be let down by some baffling tactical decisions by Herr Vogts. I think Walter Smith would be the ideal man for the job (and I'm not just saying that because I'm a Rangers fan!)
     
  6. krause9

    krause9 New Member

    Mar 6, 2003
    Wow - you guys are so ass backward - even the FA has decided to go outside and hire a a Swede. You just do not get it. You can not win international tornaments with your kick and run style. The one thing the SFA did right was hire someone from outside the Isle. If they are smart, they will look to the continent again.
     
  7. DarthTrickster

    DarthTrickster New Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    Inverness, Scotland
    If they are smart!? :eek: Berti Vogts was a disaster!! He came from the continent! No-one is saying we should be playing the long ball game but, the major thing missing from the Scottish game recently has been passion.Something ( I believe) only a Scottish could put back.
     
  8. krause9

    krause9 New Member

    Mar 6, 2003
    Jimmy Johnstone had passion
     
  9. Scottish_Morton

    Jul 7, 2003
    Irvine, Scotland
    Yeah that's very smart, employ a foriegn boss to get our players to play a style of football we can't play! Don't be stupid! The FA went outside England because all the best managers in England are foriegn, many of them Scottish!

    Have you ever heard of Sir Alex Ferguson? David Moyes? Gordon Strachan, Craig Levein? Graeme Souness? There's plenty more good Scottish managers where they came from, guy's like Jimmy Calderwood, Alex McLeish, Walter Smith and Paul Sturrock. We may not have great players but we have always had great managers!

    The manager of the SCOTTISH national team Should be SCOTTISH!

    Stop assuming Berti was doing the best job that could've been done. Because he wasn't! If you knew the Scottish players and had been watching Scotland's games you would know this!
     
  10. DarthTrickster

    DarthTrickster New Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    Inverness, Scotland
    I said recently, when Jinky was playing there was no lack of passion, and we had a Scottish manager so what's your point? :confused:
     
  11. krause9

    krause9 New Member

    Mar 6, 2003
    I here Glenn Hoddle is available - I know, I know - he is not Scottish
     
  12. DarthTrickster

    DarthTrickster New Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    Inverness, Scotland
    Then why bother suggesting him then?
     
  13. Scottish_Morton

    Jul 7, 2003
    Irvine, Scotland
    It takes a bad German manager to make you appreciate an average Scottish manager! I never thought i'd say it but (well, at least compared to Berti) wee Craig Brown did a good job! At least he didn't embarras us! I know he needed to go, he played Tom Boyd at wing back ffs! But Compared to berti he was a tactical genius!

    Under Craig Brown (about, what 7 or 8 years?) our biggest defeat was 3-0, and that happened once, and it was in a World Cup! Berti's first game and we get beat 5-0 and its not gotten any better since!
     
  14. DarthTrickster

    DarthTrickster New Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    Inverness, Scotland
    I agree! Bring back Craig! Maybe not but we have to accept that a foreign manager has not worked us.
     
  15. krause9

    krause9 New Member

    Mar 6, 2003
    Fine, I haear Gordon Strachan is available.
     
  16. DarthTrickster

    DarthTrickster New Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    Inverness, Scotland
    Ah, a sensible suggestion, thank you! One problem though, he wants back into club management, he said so on MOTD.
     
  17. krause9

    krause9 New Member

    Mar 6, 2003
    You can clone Jock Stein the same way you cloned Dolly the sheep
     
  18. DarthTrickster

    DarthTrickster New Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    Inverness, Scotland
    What, resulting in Jock Stein suffering horrible genetic abnormalities leading to his early death!? :eek: You're sick!!
     
  19. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    We should get in a Swedish manager, as the Swede says, you don't win championships with our playing style. With a Swede in chanrge, we would win as many championships as them.........oops;)
     
  20. england66

    england66 Member+

    Jan 6, 2004
    dallas, texas

    I know you don't want to hear from a sassanach (sp?) but the major thing missing from the Scottish game is some players who can play...Berti Vogts won the euro championship in 96 for one reason....he had some players...PLAYERS win games...
     
  21. england66

    england66 Member+

    Jan 6, 2004
    dallas, texas
    A foreign manager has not worked because he has not enough PLAYERS to work with.....developing players at the grass roots is the problem for Scotland...no more Law, Baxter, Dalgleish...where o' where have they gone...get a grip...berti wasn't the problem...the problem is in the Scottish game when the only two teams in the league hardly have a Scot in sight...and the only two teams in the league are themselves barely competitive in europe....change the system....develope players..that is Scotlands only chance..
     
  22. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    For the 156th time on BS (may be a slight exageration;)), I'll explain this......

    england(etc), of course you are right, we don't have any world class players like Law, Dalgish and the rest and for the good of the game in this country, we need to work out why and take measures to make sure that we do produce better young players and give them oppertunities.

    The thing is, we want a manager of the national team who can get the best out of the limited resources we do have. The players we have are not terrible, these men are all talented footballers, you don't get to play in the Premiership or even SPL without being a very, very good footballer. We need a manager who can motivate them, organise them get them reaching somewhere near their potential whilst we work out the problems we have at grass root level.

    Vogts won Euro'96 because he had a group of players many of whom were top class footballers who were experiecenced at the highest level and that team had leaders all throughout the park. You ask most Germans and they'll tell you that it was senior players like Mathaus, Sammer, Moller, Kahn and Bierhoff who were responsible for that win, not Vogts.

    At Scotland he was one of the highest paid national managers in the world, I beleive, he has failed to communicate properly with the players, alienated players who were 1st choice players, shown a complete lack of ability to organise a football team, constantly plays players out of position and has used over 60 players since he arrived, many of whom should never have got near a Scotland cap. So he was not up to the job, we need to bring in someone who is up to the job and can get the best out of our players.
     
  23. timberley11

    timberley11 New Member

    Sep 27, 2004
    Buffalo, NY
    You hit the nail on the head. I will be the first to say it on this thread.

    King Kenny for the Scotish National team job or even Bobby McMahon even though he mentioned on his report this evening that it looks like Walter Smith.

    But who cares unless the Scotish FA pumps so money in to grass roots then Scotland may as well keeping watching their fall down the FIFA rankings slip game after game.
     
  24. SteveW

    SteveW New Member

    Apr 11, 2004
    Sorry but the players we have are not very very good footballers. In International terms they are very mediocre. How many of the current squad are regulars in Premiership teams? How many of them are even regulars in top-half Championship teams?

    In recent years we've seen players like Jamie McAllister get a cap for Scotland. That shows just how desperate we are.

    If you look at just about any nation in the world you can pick one or two real world class players. Not in Scotland. You look at most Euro squads (even the diddy countries) and you will see people playing in Spain, Italy, Germany or Premiership week in week out. Not Scotland. The tiniest of backwater African nations can produce a striker capable of scoring at International level. Not Scotland. The best we have is Barry Ferguson and he just doesn't cut it.

    Yes Berti wasn't great. yes we can do better. Yes a new manager might improve things a bit. But its not the answer. Things have to change in the long term so that Scotland is actually able to make players with basic skills again.

    Bitching about whether Berti was a flump for picking Lee Wilkie in a game instead of Andy Webster or arguing about which dud SPL striker is better misses the big picture.

    I also don't know why Berti was fired NOW when there isn't an obvious candidate for replacement and when there is no hurry to make the appointment.
     
  25. ArsenalTexan3

    ArsenalTexan3 Member

    Arsenal
    Sep 24, 2002
    Jakarta
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Ding dong the wicked witch is dead!
     

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