Berhalter's Dilemma: Loyalty or Success?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by adam tash, Jul 8, 2019.

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What will Gregg Berhalter prioritize in future rosters?

  1. Loyalty

    13 vote(s)
    56.5%
  2. Performance

    10 vote(s)
    43.5%
  1. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So after following the threads on the games during GGG's tenure so far (the Gold Cup and the friendlies), the consensus seems to be that one of GGG's biggest weakness is his PLAYER SELECTION and ROSTER CONSTRUCTION.

    He has demonstrated an affinity for players that he "knows" and that he is "familiar with" ...he has stated multiple times how important camaraderie is and how the off-the-field-stuff matters a lot to him.

    He has stuck by a lot of players (so far) that do not seem to be performing up to the standard necessary and has called in a lot of players that have previous connections to him or the national team, ostensibly because they are more familiar with him and his methods and thus will be able to out-perform those that he has never been around or worked with before.

    However, this approach he has chosen has not been proven as the optimal path to this point. The results has has gotten to this point have been mixed at best.

    I think he is now facing a big dilemma: continue to keep the same small inner circle of players that he has identified and presumably built a rapport with (despite many of those players not seeming to be up to the level of the international game at the moment) OR start making tough decisions to bring new and different players in that he hasn't worked with before at the expense of "his guys".

    What will he do?

    What should he do?
     
  2. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Trapp was pretty much excluded from a real meaningful role (let alone building the team around him), so that gives me at least some basis to believe Berhalter is willing to look past those who seem to be in his inner circle. Need more evidence, though.
     
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  3. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berhalter likes his own ideas despite the opposition of logic.
     
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  4. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007

    Now, if you told me both Bradley and Trapp were excluded from a meaningful role, we would be on to something.
     
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  5. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    I've been pleasantly surprised by Berhalters willingness to make changes.
     
  6. Douglas Campbell

    BVB
    United States
    Mar 2, 2018
    #6 Douglas Campbell, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    I have a very negative impression of Berhalter.

    In the last Copa America, it seemed to me that the US had 7-8 good players. I had been frustrated with Klinsmann we didn't see more of Darlington Nagbe. We just looked more fluid with him in the game. Wondolowski starting over Pulisic up top was an outrage, after what Wondo did vs. Belgium in the WC. When Bobby Wood was out vs. Argentina, I thought we really missed him.

    And, now with Berhalter, Wood and Nagbe aren't even on the team! This is fine, if you can pick other guys that perform, but their replacements -- Altidore/Zardes, and Bradley/McKinney -- were awful on Sunday. OK, Altidore had some nice moments, but man, was that an awful miss. He's never done much for the national team, truth be told.

    Zardes over Bobby Wood seems particularly strange to me. Zardes never got selected for a Bundesliga team. Dortmund were interested in Wood for a time. And, did Nagbe suddenly get a lot worse? I don't watch him in MLS, but I remember him for the national team as being the best US player in possession, with the exception of Pulisic. While Bradley is definitely better defensively, often Bradley give-aways lead to scoring opportunities, as they did for Mexico Sunday. Michael Bradley is often good, but games when he just doesn't have it, like Sunday, he should be substituted. You're telling me Nagbe is so much worse than Bradley, that on a day when Bradley is struggling, and tired from 80 minutes of a Mexico match in the heat, that he's still better than Nagbe? Down 1-0 needing to hold on to the ball to score?

    And, where is John Brooks?
     
  7. Douglas Campbell

    BVB
    United States
    Mar 2, 2018
    The other issue was that, in the 2nd half, we kept trying to pass out of the back, even though it wasn't working. Each time we would cough the ball up in our own half and give up a dangerous scoring opportunity. We should try that some times, but when it repeatedly isn't working, we should punt.

    Greg Berhalter is no Bill Belichick.
     
  8. Nick79

    Nick79 Member

    May 4, 2015
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    And why doesn't DeAndre Yedlin play anymore? Is he washed up already? Isn't he playing in EPL?
     
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  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    He was injured and is now just returning to his club team.
     
  10. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Trapp shoved other people off the GC roster and when we needed offense he subbed in a LB. If the evidence has reached him, it took 7 months despite Trapp displaying little upside. There is a list of similar players for whom the sun has not yet dawned on Berhalter, Sean Johnson, Bradley himself, Lovitz, Roldan, Mihailovic, Zardes. Maybe by Xmas I guess. Guess we now look for "getting it" on geological timescales.

    There is whatever happened with Boyd where he disappeared. Such that in a final, down a goal, with him dressed, he gets treated like the 3rd RF option to the benefit of a left back sub.

    GB started the tournament with 2 straight games same XI. He ended the tournament with 2 straight games same XI same subs. Not like ingenious subs. Like Roldan and Lovitz. We say he is evolving but he likes to settle back into stasis again. And each new stasis doesn't look much better, like he makes half improvements and half errors each time he gets the screwdriver out.

    There is the head scratching stuff like Arriola pushing Pulisic back.

    Oh, and then there is the omissions list. When a team of forgotten men might beat the bench, and the coach looks bereft of comeback ideas on his bench, hmmmm.

    No, I agree with whoever it was the other day who was saying coaches often have a pet, but not 10. And it shouldn't take a year to sort them back out. Historically if a pet got a call by his ex coach and looked nothing special, that was their last cap, like anyone else. You had to at least knock in a Bornstein miracle -- bona fides of some worthy performance -- to justify return. I thought part of the job was this kind of ruthless ability to sort out which of your formers should come back.

    Like I said yesterday, he only gets excused for this because people have accepted we are second best to Mexico regionally, as a matter of course, and have become indulgent of projects where accountability can be deferred.
     
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  11. Douglas Campbell

    BVB
    United States
    Mar 2, 2018
    You take Pulisic off this team, and I bet you could find a different American 11 who could beat these guys in a best of 7 series.

    I just went back and watched the first half. I thought Bradley and McKinney didn't look great in the first half either. Aside from Altidore's miss, he had some nice touches, but a bad giveaway. I thought Reggie Cannon looked good. Didn't expect that. I like Jordan Morris, but I would probably favor him coming off the bench at this point.
     
  12. Douglas Campbell

    BVB
    United States
    Mar 2, 2018
    Wikipedia says 28 EPL matches this past year, and two goals. And can't get in the US-Mexico game? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeAndre_Yedlin
     
  13. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  14. morange92

    morange92 Member+

    Jan 30, 2012
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2019/5/7/18536014/deandre-yedlin-undergoes-surgery-usa-usmnt

    Had surgery a month prior and I guess wasn't healthy enough for GGG to feel comfortable calling him up. Honestly i'd say it was somewhat a blessing in disguise since Cannon ended up getting an opportunity and impressing. Makes me feel fairly good about the RB spot moving forward, even if I think GGG's plan to move Tyler Adams back there is silly.
     
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  15. Nick79

    Nick79 Member

    May 4, 2015
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    Right! I thought of him too, when they needed a goal, why didn't they put him in? He had been providing offense when he played.
     
  16. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Hopefully this becomes a constant cycle of assessment and reassessment.


    Evident Changes Post Gold Cup 2019

    1) Bradley -> Adams at the 6
    I hope to see that Berhalter has assessed that there is more mobility and dynamism needed at the 6. Bradley had a decent tournament, but why settle for decent when you have a young stalwart making noise at a serious club in the Bundesliga? It's time to make way for Adams to take his position for the future. The time has come.

    2) Forward Hierarchy Shake-Up
    Altidore is now your starter, but this is an open competition until someone shows you that they are going to take it. I think you now include Weah in this group.

    3) Open Auditions for Rising Players
    Now is the time to bring in guys like Pomykal, Weah, Sargent, Dest, Soto, Gloster, etc. If they're playing for their clubs, they need to be called in.

    Things That Panned Out and Should Be Kept

    1) McKennie and Pulisic are the best players in the squad. McKennie is a lot like Jermaine Jones...a dynamic two-way player and athlete with a tough mindset. Jones was more of a defensive stud while McKennie is a bright passer. They are your penciled in 1 and 2.

    2) These Gold Cup players should be in current USMNT squads for competitive games: Pulisic, McKennie, Boyd, Altidore, Arriola, Long, Holmes, Cannon/Lima, Ream.
     
  17. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think GB is a fine MLS coach, but we all know he’s going to go down the same road and introduce nothing new. I still feel like a foreign coach who can bring fresh ideas to the table is what really will change this program. Unfortunately, I think Klinsmann has ruined this for a long time. I think all the executives were/are paranoid now to bring in anyone like that. Clearly Ernie Stewart made that clear with his demands of what the position needs to be.... I personally don’t see a whole lot changing over the next few years. Hell, wouldn’t even surprise me if we fail to make another WC.
     
  18. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    just a tip

    1)learn players name if you are going to bash them and say you watched the match
    2)atleast mildly follow the player in their club careers
    3)before you ask why a player wasn't on the roster atleast google their name to see if they are healthy
     
  19. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    For the most part Berhalter has dealt with a lot of injuries to some of the presumptive starting 11. Brooks, Adams and Yedlin all could have started against Mexico. Holmes was an interesting choice but he also was injured. It's been very interesting that he hasn't called up Nagbe Guzan or Woods. Sargent was probably a guy he should have brought on. But in general, saying that he overly relied on the old guard - really only two guys, Omar and Bradley - or too many MLS players - four of his Europe call ups were injured - is way over the top after seeing only six months of him in action.
     
  20. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he keeps sticking with underperforming players: trapp zardes arriola roldan lovitz etc....

    zardes and trapp are his "buddies" from columbus.....its not just omar and bradley

    its not just old vs new.....

    its how he is managing the pool.

    brooks and adams hurt....

    but funny you bring up cannon...who wasn't even supposed to be on the team but played very well.....doubtful yedlin would've played any better.
     
  21. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    There's always something to complain about in a roster. I just don't think you have established a pattern of favoritism. Brooks, Adams, Yedlin, Lletget and Holmes were hurt. That's more than 20% of the roster. Also, Arriola is really good.

    Although, I get the Zardes stuff. But he's been haunting our roster from way before Berhalter.
     
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  22. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, now that the rules of been changed to help us make the world cup I'm sure that what will be done to make sure we make the wc will be done. There is cash to be made, boys, and no one worth his Chicago salt is gonna allow that cash to be lost two times in a row.
     
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  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    What are you even talking about? The changes made simply get the US into the hex, which hasn't been an issue. Nor would it have been. So it really doesn't change anything for WCQ.

    In fact, since it adds a game for the fourth place team in the hex to win ... it technically takes our chances down a bit.

    Furthermore, this is a thread about Berhalter and favoritism ... it doesn't have anything to do with this.
     
  24. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem is he only knows one way of coaching and will stick with the players that fit that style.
     
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  25. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [1] As presumably you know, since presumably you read my post, because I presume you actually read posts you presume to reply to, that I was replying to a post by dfwsoccer01. In particular I was responding to that last line where he wrote: ".. I personally don’t see a whole lot changing over the next few years. Hell, wouldn’t even surprise me if we fail to make another WC".

    That, By Gogorath's Hammer, is what I was talking about.

    [2] In qualifying for 2002: In the preHex semifinal round, in a group with Costa Rica, Guatemala, Barbados, the US had 1 more point than Costa Rica and Guatemala.
    Group 3
    Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts Qualification
    1
    United States 6 3 2 1 14 3 +11 11 Advance to the final round0–0 1–0 7–0
    2 [​IMG] Costa Rica 6 3 1 2 9 6 +3 10 2–12–1 3–0
    3 [​IMG] Guatemala 6 3 1 2 9 6 +3 10 1–1 2–12–0
    4 [​IMG] Barbados 6 1 0 5 3 20 −17 3 0–4 2–1 1–3

    In qualifying for 2014 it was almost as close in the semifinals.
    Group A
    Pld
    W D L GF GA GD Pts
    United States 6 4 1 1 11 6 +5 13 — 1–0 3–1 3–1
    [​IMG] Jamaica 6 3 1 2 9 6 +3 10 2–12–1 4–1
    [​IMG] Guatemala 6 3 1 2 9 8 +1 10 1–1 2–13–1
    [​IMG] Antigua and Barbuda 6 0 1 5 4 13 −9 1 1–2 0–0 0–1

    In qualifying for 2018, it was again close in the semifinals.

    Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts Qualification
    1
    [​IMG] United States 6 4 1 1 20 3 +17 13 Advance to fifth round4–0 4–0 6–1
    2 [​IMG] Trinidad and Tobago 6 3 2 1 13 9 +4 11 0–02–2 6–0
    3 [​IMG] Guatemala 6 3 1 2 18 11 +7 10 2–0 1–29–3
    4 [​IMG] Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 6 0 0 6 6 34 −28 0 0–6 2–3 0–4

    Note that in these three, and this includes the most recent two WC qualifying rounds, the margin between us and our rivals was at most the result of one match.

    If you were to bother doing a search for things true [which General Egg's BS camp can't be bothered with, it seems] you would see that Mexico has also had a couple of tense semifinals.

    So, yes, the USSF could have taken our ultimate failure in 2018, and the warning signs from our difficulties in qualifying through semifinals, as a chance for seriously amping up what we are trying to have the USMNT be. Or it could have joined with Mexico to set up qualifying as a minimial stress free zone. As they say in a House in Chicago: "Why bother striving for the best pizza in town when you can just make sure the fix is in?"

    [3] By Gogorath's Hammer, even for the General Egg Progressives this is a new low in the refusal to know the past. It adds nothing of the sort. That feature was already there.
    2018 WC Qualifying [yes, this very last one]. The 4th place team, Honduras, had to go against Australia [lost 3-1 in aggregate]. We didn't even make 4th place.
    2014, 4th place Mexico had to go against New Zealand [won 9-3 in aggregate].
    2010, 4th place Costa Rica had to againt Uruguay [lost 1-2 in aggregate].
    2006, 4th place Trinidad & Tobago had to against Bahrain [won 2-1 on aggregate].
    In 2002 and prior there was no continuation of any sort for the 4th placed team.

    In short, what you call "an addition" for this next WC qualification has been a feature of the last four ConCaf WC campaigns.

    [4] As good as your command of recent history is, your command of putting two and two together is even more impressive. In a thread about the consequences of the manager of the USMNT just happening to be the brother of a leading kingpin of the USSF, consequences such as shunning outside influences or ideas which might run the risk of challenging the control of the Chicago House cadre, consequences such as preferring the option of rigging qualification [to make it harder for us not to qualify] over the option of facing the rising challenge of ConcaCaf WC competition by making the quality of the national teams a priority over who reaps the material reward of control of the sport in this country, you just sputter "It doesn't have anything to do with this".

    Pathetic, Gogorath.
     
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