I saw on the news earlier video of Northern Koreans living in China jumping over walls and into different foreign embassies to seek asylum. Any reason there have been so many of them recently? What exactly is their motive? Is there any chance they will be brought to South Korea? I don't see that happening but don't know all the details. Thanks *I put this here because there's no point in putting it in the FFA or Politics forum. I doubt people who know would see it there. Please don't move mods.
this is what I have been insiting for long long and LOOOOOOOONG time, but the stupid supermod never understood the point. i wish i could ban him.
this is in the wrong place and should be in the politics forum, you have just made this a place for trollers like hamatachi to post their twisted views of what is right and wrong.
this is really old news...some have made it to SK, but since China is allies with NK, they have sent a majority of them back to NK, where they will face so called "repatriation." There is a lot of controversy over this issue, when there shouldn't be any. China is Chinese territory, trepass and get exported.
But embassies are not Chinese territory. Chinese authorities have no jurisdiction inside embassy grounds and cannot enter unless the embassy specifically asks. Chinese police did enter the embassies and therein lies the controversy.
If the situation is reversed, the countries are involved are the USA and Haiti. The refugees from Haiti could not even go past the Costa Guards and never came anywhere near the foreign embassy in Washington or San Francisco. The China-North Korean border is not guarded. Thousands of North Koreans crossed into China each day for work and for food. Of course, some of the unlucky ones got caught and were sent back. In actuality, the majority of them crossed into China. Until recently, China actually did not really care about those illegal immigrants. How else can you explain why so many North Koreans lived openly in the Northeastern or parts of Beijing??? About 6 months ago, the North Koreans in China did not use the embassy as a gateway to South Korea or Japan. The North Korean illegal immigrants in China became problems. 1) World China stop them jumping into the foreign embassy? Obviousl, they will stop them just liked any other country in the world would do? 2) Would the refugees got sent back to North Korea? Yes. Just liked the Iraqis, Vietnamese, Haitians and other refugees around the world.... 3) World the western countries, Korea or Japan take them? Yes for now when the number is around in the hundreds. What if the number reached up to thousands.... It would become liked the Vietnamese in the 1980's again. The countries in Asia holding the Vietnamese refugees were unwilling to take any more of them citing them as economic refugees. The Western countries criticized the Asian goverments for calling the Vietnames "economic refugees" and the inhumane system where they were sent back to Vietnam. However, the same Western governments also stopped taking Vietnamese refugees from Asian countries because the Vietnamese are all economic refugees. The North Korean problem in China can be solved with one thing only.... stop them before they crossed into China.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Beijing Embassies [NSR] Yes good idea - send them home to beatings, imprisonment, starvation and possible capital punishment for the crime of being desperate for a better life.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Beijing Embassies [NSR] Yes, great idea send them home to where they belong. If they brake the law they should be punished.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Beijing Embassies [NSR] Embassies have no such moral or legal obligations. But they're in a bind because they are criticized when they don't provide safe heavens in their embassies and they're criticized for excercising their sovereign rights. If Chinese authorities were serious about enforcing immigration laws, they should toughen up its border. Why should an embassy be China's border patrol guard? Until China takes care of its own problems, embassies should do whatever they think is the right thing to do. And there's no excuse for the local police to enter embassy grounds.
Personally, I think that China should just let the North Koreans walk their way in to the foreign embassies. What do they gain by trying to stop them, anyway?
They want to stem the tide of illegal aliens seeking asylum. If word gets out that it's a cake walk to get to South Korea, one North Korean estimated that something like over 75% of the country would leave.
Brian, I think you've had enough replies from Asian forumers. Therefore, this thread now has moved to Politics forum.
Thanks guys (for the one's who posted their opinion). Some interesting discussion. No offense, but I don't agree with those who are on the side of the Chinese government. It sounds a lot like a right-wing view here, when you hear conservatives talk about illegal immigrants. They showed video of Chinese police throwing them to the ground and literally dragging them across the parking lot when they weren't resisting. I realize they are breaking the law and there is no easy way to handle it but I think that is excessive and cruel. I'd love to see the people who don't care live through poverty and deal with everything they do. I can't even begin to imagine. CasualFan and NW, I cannot believe you actually had to post that. I clearly stated why I put it here and you are no one to judge (not a mod). If you have a problem PM me or complain by writing a long passionate letter to Huss. And also CasualFan, this is NOT "old news." It may happen often but these specific incidents happened today and within the past few weeks.
The sad truth is that it happened all over the world. Millions of people crossed national boundaries to seek for a better life each day. No one is willing to take them. China is just doing their parts!!!! What are their alternatives? Set up a safe haven for millions of North Koreans to walk into the foreign embassy!!!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Beijing Embassies [NSR] So you are critizing China for both stopping the North koreans and not stopping the Koreans. Take a pick!!!! Which side are you on????
Do you mean this "incident" happened today? I thought you are talking about the one that happened few months ago. I need to go check the newspaper. So this isn't the first time that the Northern Koreans tried to jump into the foreign embassies. I think the Chinese cops did the right thing. If they didn't pull their asses out and just let them went through, what would the rest of those North Korea illegal immigrants think? It wolud encourage them to do the same thing. What happen if thousand of them run into the foreign embassies? It's funny to see the foreign embassies become the North Korean hotels. I'm sure the Chinese government don't want to see that.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Beijing Embassies [NSR] Oh, but it's so comfortable on the fence! No, I'm criticizing China for not doing enough to secure its border with North Korea, then complaining when the illegal aliens take advantage of the safe heavens. I'm not against stopping these immigrants from seeking asylum through embassies by using reasonable force before they get to the embassies. But once they're in embassy grounds, they're off limits.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Beijing Embassies [NSR] Considering what I've seen of your other posts, I would think you would have more compassion for starving, politically oppressed people. Having said that, I must point out that "crossing vast stretches of Chinese territory" is the Chinese government's problem and not the embassies'. Once they get in, the embassy must assess the situation and take action appropriately. They must balance, say, the person's immigration crimes against the Chinese government with their status as a bonafide refugee who is fleeing persecution, starvation, or the threat of torture, imprisonment, and death. Most governments tend to err on the side of the refugee -- better to accept someone who breaks Chinese law than to live with sending them back to hell (sometimes strung together in lines by a wire through their noses) on their consciences. For an idea of conditions in north Korea, read a book called "tThe Aquariums of Pyongyang," keeping in mind that the starvation and brutality there is even worse now than depicted in the book. Then try to understand why north Koreans flee their country in droves. It is not the fault of the embassies that they do it.
Let me construct a scenario for you. Let's say that, on Castro's death, Cuba undergoes internal turmoil and ultimately splits in 2. One half (let's say West Cuba) turns into a prosperous, democratic nation, while the other half (East Cuba) is seized by an ultra right-wing fascist strongman so oppressive he makes Castro look like Gandhi. Now, of course everyone from East Cuba wants to get into West Cuba, and West Cuba does their best to help the effort, however East Cuba militarizes the border very heavily, so it is difficult to get directly across. So boatloads of East Cuban immigrants start landing on the shores of Florida. The US refuses to take them in (and I realize that this is a departure from our usual policy towards Cuba), however one day several boatloads avoid detection by the Coast Guard, land safely, and make their way to the Belgian consul in Miami. West Cuba is willing to receive the immigrants, and Belgium says it will send them there after it completes the neccesary paperwork. Several days later, Dade County SWAT teams storm the Belgian consul, take custody of the immigrants, and return them to East Cuba. Now, do you think the US is justified in this situation? And what does your conclusion here tell you about whether or not the Chinese government is justified? Alex
To get the hell out of North Korea and find a better life. http://www.house.gov/international_relations/voll0502.htm