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Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by mschofield, Nov 10, 2004.
And part of "discussing them" is to bitchslap stupid posts about one player costing a team a game.
If memory serves (and it doesn't always), it was The Sun that published pictures and claimed they demonstrated TH having a Tourette's attack on the field. The BBC article that I remember gave Howard the chance to talk about his condition, and to point out that there are various forms of it besides blurting out. While you can take issue with their particular reporting on this one, I don't think the BBC has ever exploited Howard's condition to sell papers, whereas The Sun has. But that kind of scummy reporting is typical for them.
Howard sucks as a goalie; he should go play basketball or something.
everyone knows all players make mistakes but at that level G.K. mistakes invariably end up in the back of the net. As a result goalkeepers are subject to a different set of performance standards than outfield players, it's just the way it is.
All teams want the same thing from their G.K.'s.....
1) don't make any mistakes
2) occasionally come up with the big save.
So in the end, GK is a bitch of a position to play. Not only are you expected to be Mistake free but ALSO Cover up the mistakes of the 10 guys in front of you.
That sounds about right.
In a nutshell....yes....
And, it must be added, the don't make any mistakes requirement is much higher at the big clubs than the smaller ones, where no one really believes going out to buy a world class keeper as cover is really an option. And even then, ManU is in a small group of teams with low patience. Anyone watching Bayern Munich (certainly a large club) knows Herr Kahn has been spilling, slipping and flopping way more than should be legal. Yet, he's there after doing it last year, and will likely stay despite doing it again this year.
In the end, though, that's why it's such a huge deal with TH is with ManU, and started as much as he has. Other teams may have keepers playing better, but no plays under higher expectations/more pressure.
Let's be clear, on the play resulting in Ferdinand's goal. Gary Neville pushed a Bolton player perhaps Ferdinand into Howard as Tim jumped up to play the ball. This caused the ball to hit the ground and the resulting follies of having Silvestre push the ball beyond Howard's reach and into the path of the ever opportunistic Mr. Ferdinand. Them's the facts. Watch the replay if available very closely.
So out of all of that who's fault was it? I personally think it was the ball's fault for not staying put.
Removing tongue from cheek, it was Neville's fault for pushing the Bolton player and then a failure of communication between Howard and Silvestre. We can't hear from the video whether Howard called out keeper's got it. So who knows.
It should be interesting to see what happens. Now ferige is balming the guys up front for Man Yoos troubles.... Tim Howard is a great keeper, to bad he had to go to the evil empire of soccer....
Cudicini may not agree.
for the record it was a very minor story here. BBC (TV) didn't devote a single second to it.
remember david seaman's one mistake in the world cup?
If you make a bad mistake, and that mistake is the difference between a draw and a loss, then yes, the loss will be blamed on you. You can't hide from that. Saying "there are 10 other players on the team" is what you say to little kids who've screwed up to stop them crying.
Nothing kills a goalkeeping career like a run of mistakes. He'd made two in two games. It would have been on his mid, and everyone would have been waiting for him to make another mistake. Taking him out of the firing line for a bit might well help him in the long run. Otherwise he could have ended up with a David James style reputation before too long.
Howard tried to catch the ball at chest level insted of above his head with his arms outstretched, protecting the ball. It was a bad play. Even if he was bumped he needs to hold on to that ball. Silvestre made a stupid play too by not clearing the ball(leave it alone so the keeper can get it or clear it, don't touch it to the other team) but that doesn't change Tim's mistake.
It doesn't matter if he was bumped or what Silvestre did after Tim dropped the ball. He shouldn't have dropped it. If he does that for the US at the World Cup are people going to make excuses for him there too?
Awesome post, thank you for skipping the excuses and not sugar coating it.
"Saying "there are 10 other players on the team" is what you say to little kids who've screwed up to stop them crying".
I love that line
Just once I would like to read a thread on Howard that did not break down to M saying that Tim Howard sucks and a bunch of other posters trying to argue with M over his view. Perhaps I will start a thread tomorrow Tim Howard -- Completely Average to Above Average says the fans.
Go watch the replay. There are many times when goalkeepers get disposed of the ball because of a strong challenge. If an offensive player does it, the whistle is blown and play is restarted with a direct free kick for the keepers team. To say he should have held on to the ball tells me you did not watch the play. The contact prevented Howard from getting to the ball.
The contact did not prevent Tim from getting to the ball. He got his hands to the ball, but he dropped it. He would have been better off trying to catch it higher. I've watched the play at least 10 times. Give me a link and I'll watch it again. If he had such a big problem getting bumped and couldn't catch it he should have just punched it away. Trying to make this out to be anything but a mistake by Tim is just grasping at straws. Other players played it poorly too but Tim has to catch that ball, at the very least he needs to punch it away.
I'm just not going to make excuses for players just because they are "my guys" or on the team I follow. Howard dropped the ball. Keepers are bumped into all the time and a call is not always made. They are expected to hold onto balls like that.
To say it's not Tims fault because he was bumped tells me you are making up excuses to cover for his mistakes.
I'm not against Tim or anyother Nats player but I do get tired of the excuses. No player in the world is going to be mistake free. Tim made a few and now he is sitting. He will get another chance either at ManU or somewhere else.
No excuses. You have benefit of replay to armchair quarterback. It's a bang bang play. Imagine you are a keeper you see a ball flighted in your direction. You come out to play it and a player standing nearby suddenly gets pushed into you preventing you from handling the ball cleanly. How is that Howard's fault. Neville is at fault on that play. Thanks.
It's a bang bang play so now I shouldn't watch the replay? In your previous post you were telling me to watch the replay. I watched the play and Howard made a mistake.
Happens all the time. A keeper has to expect contact, especially in the EPL, and play accordingly. If he doesn't think he can catch the ball he needs to punch it away. Very simple part of the game.
Howard dropped the ball, that's how it is his fault. Neville and Silvestre are at fault too. How about it's Howards fault for not being better at organizing the defense? That's a fair complaint, especially if you are trying to blame Neville.
Howard made a mistake, he is human, we should be able to deal with that.
You like to be argumentative don't you. Where did I say not to watch the replay. You have benefit of knowing the aftermath. It's easy to say he should have been in better position or punched it out. The fact is he never even dropped the ball because he never handled it cleanly. Dropping means he had possession. So if you wish to call what happened dropping the ball feel free. Be my guest to say it was his fault too. You are entitled to your opinion. What I saw tells me (once more with feeling) that Howard was impeded from playing the ball by Neville's push of the Bolton player. If that does not happen, Howard cleanly gets to the ball and he is looking to distribute it up field to a teammate.
I'm arguementative because I disagree? Um, no.
You basically tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and that I should go watch the replay. I tell you that I've seen the replay and I give you a clear assesment of the play. Then you have the nerve to say it's a bang bang play and that criticizing Timmy from watching the replay is somehow unfair? What? I watched the replay and Timmy made a mistake. That's it, Them's the facts.
So you now feel the need to define dropped?
He dropped the ball. I understand the definition of "dropped". Possession is not a requirement to define dropped.
Sure, if no one else is around it's easier for Timmy to make the play but that's not what happened. Keepers have to deal with players around them and make plays. Do you actually think any coach is going to take "other players were in my way" as an excuse for dropping a ball? Part of a keepers job is to catch balls in traffic. He is suppose to do that.
I don't agree with your opinion and it really doesn't make any difference how many times you restate your point. That's your opinion and I happen to think you are wrong. I certainly would expect most unbiased people to say that Timmy made a mistake. This is easy to see.