Beeb on Howard: Scapegoat

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by mschofield, Nov 10, 2004.

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  1. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  2. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    My take, for what it's worth, is that he's right. the keeper is always blamed. Nothing new there, however. Nice to see that he'll be getting the carling cup start. Maybe long trip back is gathering steam.
     
  3. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They lifted part of the quotes from this SI article - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/lang_whitaker/11/08/the.links/index.html
    They conveniently leave out the full quote the "scapegoat" comment:

    He's talking about owning up to his own mistakes, but the Beeb says he thinks he's being made out as a scapegoat... :rolleyes:
     
  4. gnk

    gnk Member

    Nov 1, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. WHen I read the entire article yesterday, I just knew that the Britith
    press would take the "scapegoat" line out of context. I urge everyone to read the entire article from SI. It puts the "scapegoat" sentence into context.
     
  5. profiled

    profiled Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    slightly north of a mile high
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy

    He did own up to them, but he also made it very clear that he isn't the only one to blame, so if he feels he isn't the only one to blame, and yet he's the only one being blamed, then yes he is being made a scapegoat.
     
  6. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    How is he talking about owning up to his mistakes if he thinks he didn't lose them any games? Now admittedly his mistakes against Bolton and Lyon (?) cost them wins as opposed to caused them defeats, but that's disingenuous at best.
     
  7. Achtung

    Achtung Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He acknowledges that he contributed to losses, but I agree with him that one player doesn't win or lose a game on their own.
     
  8. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And he was talking about keepers in general, not just himself
     
  9. Achtung

    Achtung Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And you can even extend that to not just talk about keepers, but any player who becomes a fall guy when a team loses. But yeah I do see that keepers tend to take a disproportionate amount of the blame, which I suppose is understandable given the high profile of their position. Still doesn't make it right.
     
  10. subbuteo

    subbuteo New Member

    Dec 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Surprised they didn't say I've Been Made the F***ing Scapegoat as they liked to use his condition to spice up their headlines when United first signed him.
     
  11. Pathogen

    Pathogen Member

    Jul 19, 2004
    Like you care.
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The guy's pure class. Anyone that doesn't see that is a dope.
     
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here, let me educate you a little bit about soccer. Re: the Bolton match...if that defender (Silvestre?) hadn't knocked the ball away from him, they don't lose. I'm sure at some point in the match, some ManU player didn't convert an easy chance.

    I know you're basically an amateur ************** around here, but what's offensive is that you're so bad at it.
     
  13. PaulGascoigne

    PaulGascoigne Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    Aotearoa/NZ
    If TH stays on at MUFC, great. But if those blue-nosed a-holes don't like him, there are plenty of places where he can be appreciated. Friedel makes one giant boo-boo at Liverpool, is booted, and goes on to do better than Liverpool's keeper.

    No sense of loss if he goes, at least from my perspective. I'm a YA fan, but our reputation as a soccer nation isn't going to be made or broken on whether one of our keepers plays at a famous club, but the performance of our field players over time. 5 years ago Aussie had Kewell and Viduka, and now they have...an older and less effective Kewell and Viduka. We have made big strides in that time abroad. [PG ducks in anticipation of an Aussie Flame :) ]

    Timmy will do well at MU or he'll do well elsewhere.
     
  14. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As is evidenced by the final quote in the piece: "Sitting on the bench, and being one play away from being a starter again, there's a lot worse things going on in the world right now," he added.

    I thought he did a nice job of putting his "predicament" into a global perspective.
     
  15. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    True, but it's pretty clear from that paragraph that Howard thinks he himself has been made a scapegoat.
     
  16. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    And here was my thinking that Silverstre might have had a reasonable expectation that Howard might have actually jumped for that ball he dropped. But then I'm just an amateur, so what do I know.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jumped for a ball that's on the ground? Wow, I think you're graduating up to professional a-hole.

    Seriously, I have enough respect for you that I know you're intentionally writing stupid stuff because you enjoy being a big jerk. But you need to be less obvious about it. It's boring.
     
  18. bigdush

    bigdush New Member

    Jul 22, 2003
    Parker, CO
    So then by they are both at fault for thinking instead of just taking care of the loose ball, thus proving that Howard's not solely to blame.

    This is a team sport, with equal blame to go around on many occasions. If anyone says that Howard didn't screw up they are kidding themselves. So are the individuals that claim only he is to blame.

    Just as they are to the right, M, you are to the left.
     
  19. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now you're gettin' it.
     
  20. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Howard went for the ball over a defender but inexplicably failed to jump for it. He then spilled the ball causing the resulting comical confusion with Silvestre.

    Poor Superdave. So quick to insult; so lacking in facts.
     
  21. PaulGascoigne

    PaulGascoigne Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    Aotearoa/NZ

    M--
    That wasn't a shining moment for Howard. But if you're suggesting that incident with a high ball that was a classic "tweener" between the defender and the keeper is an important factor in why TH shouldn't be considered a good keeper, you're one harda$$ dude. It was a clear mistake, but not an epic one. The keeper on the opposing team made a much clearer mistake a few minutes later.

    The mistake he made in the next game was absolutely horrible, and seemed all the worse being back to back from the error in the last game.

    In today's game I think they would have dropped him down another notch or two with even one mistake of any type. Didn't happen, and rarely will w/ TH.
     
  22. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Question for M: if a team loses a match by one goal, do you spend as much effort criticizing their attackers for not scoring another? Or does it depend on the nationality of the players in question?
     
  23. flanoverseas

    flanoverseas New Member

    Mar 2, 2002
    Xandria
    and re: the Lyon game.

    Lyon had 17 fricking shots on goal in the first half, yet Howard, and Howard alone cost ManU a win? No one is saying that Howard's blunder in that game wasn't horrible, but to say that one play in the first half cost the team a win is just plain stupid. Lyon DOMINATED that first half in every way imaginable, should have scored twice more and I still can't figure out why (I know how, they're French) they came out and played so horribly in the second half.
     
  24. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The problem here is that a lot of UK folks see the beeb, very, very few ever check out SI.
    And the beeb is the source of news, so when they put the story on the top of their football page, and report it during sports breaks, it carries a ton more weight than the original.
     
  25. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Given this is a Yanks Abroad forum, I would presume I'd be discussing the performances of um the Yank(s) playing for that team.
     

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