What's the deal with all the empty seats the last few times I've seen Bayern on TV? Are the fans pissed, maybe about no Europe? Do they just pack it for bigger games? Is the stadium just oversized for regular games? I hadn't seen any of Bayern's league games for years until I got Fox Sports World recently and have been surprised to see vast empty spaces enen in good viewing spots.
Munich is a problem city. Bayern gets the attendance from outer Bavarian regions and they got to drive quite a while. They don't come for bad opponents or if the kickoff time is bad for them. In winter the horrible stadium does its part as well. Munich citizen are relatively wealthy and like entertainment, but they are not willing to sit somewhere in minus degrees - this might change with the new stadium. CL has no influence, rather the unattractive playing style.
By contrast, Dortmund sells out every game, regardless of weather. I presume that Dortmund is a more industrial/working class city, while Munich is cosmopolitan and wealthy (that was my impression when I visited Munich). This is typical for all sports everywhere. In the U.S., Los Angeles teams have very "fair weather" fans, who only support their teams if they are winning or at the top of their respective leagues. Contrast that with places like Green Bay (the Green Bay Packers of the NFL), where they sell out every game, where the weather is downright arctic, and regardless of how well the Packers are doing. People from more working class cities with less entertainment options tend to be much more loyal to their teams. People from the biggest, most cosmopolitan cities tend to be very "fair weather". Olaf (or any other posters from Germany), is this a fair assessment between Dormund and Munich?
I think this is absolutly right. The problem is, that there is no athmosphere in the munich olympic stadium. Most People sit a few hundred meters away from the field. If Bayern plays an attractive bundesliga-opponent or a champions-league game, than the fans know that the stadium will be packed. And this too big stadium only has atmosphere when it is at least packed with 50000 to 60000 visitors. In my opinion the new bayern-Arena will attract bayern-fans from all over germany to travel to munich to see the games. It will be sold out lfor almost every game (I hope so) - like the Dortmunder Westfalenstadion or the Arena Auf Schalke or the Kaiserslautern Betzenberg-Stadium.
On the first look I'd agree with you. But also Dortmund doesn't always sell all tickets (that's only Schalke and Leverkusen). But all three stadiums have in common that nobody has to sit in the rain as all seats are covered. Dortmund indeed has a very critical attendance that even starts whistling when the team plays back to the goalie if it's in the 90th and they lead 5-0. Despite of what's always said, the fans stop supporting quite early when the team plays bad or does not lead. In the bad 99/00 season they once even started cheering for the opponent when their team was bad (and celebrated them after the game). The attendance is changing, also in the Dortmund/Schalke region. Until the Arena AufSchalke the team had a 70.000 stadium with just about 15.000 covered - the attendance usually was about 20.000 to 30.000 in the average. With the fully covered high-tech arena they sell all tickets. They always had the fans, but the people want to have some comfort for their money - this is a clear change to the traditional 80s attendance that mainly wanted to see soccer cost what it takes (the fan base "Pro 15.30" is such a relict of the 80s fans, who - in vain and without any chance - try to keep elements of the old style). Also there it's meanwhile rather soccer as an event than the game itself.
http://www.sport1.de/cgi-bin/cm3.pl?renderer=/Fussball/Bundesliga/Daten&content=Main The last number on the right is the average attendance. Loudest fans is difficult to say. This also depends on the architecture of the stadium (e.g. concrete roof keeps the sound, some textile mixture lets it easily go, and of course no roof is the worst). Loudest sound was measured in the Arena Auf Schalke by far.
looks like most of the attendence is pretty good. But some teams not like Cottbus and Wolfsburg. thanks for the link olaf. Mutts
Might be little nicer numbers than reality - at least I doubt Bayern's 50.000 average. In general the tendency is right, if the numbers are kept it'll be a new attendance record for the league (still is the first Bundesliga season 63/64)