Battle of Oklahoma City

Discussion in 'Rayo OKC' started by msilverstein47, Jun 18, 2013.

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  1. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Geez. You could easily be mistaken for an Oklahoma City FC front office shill...

    I can say in no uncertain terms that Taft Stadium is definitely NOT "the only real place to play in OKC." Lund's group even admitted as much when they stated they may not end up playing all their home games there... they stated some games could be played at Capitol Hill HS stadium in south OKC (a stadium that last time I checked still had barbed-wire around it).

    To say the USL Pro club will have no place to play next year is disingenuous to say the least. A USL club could do pretty well at the Putnam City High School Stadium where OKC FC played Club America... or they could try to work with UCO for Wantland Stadium in Edmond... the downtown ballpark would be a longshot... all three of these locations are in better areas/neighborhoods with better parking options available than at Taft... I never understood the fascination with that location -- it's been a dump for decades and even after it's demolished (except for the WPA-era facade) and rebuilt it'll still be a high school football stadium with field turf and big football lines...

    Remember that BOTH organizations said they would continue to work to bring USL Pro and NASL to Oklahoma City whether they got the 2 year lease with OKC Public Schools for Taft Stadium or not... I believe the only reason Brad Lund would be interested in the NASL having a team in Tulsa is because of what Bob Funk Jr and Tim Holt have already said... IMO, Brad would throw Tulsa under the bus in a heartbeat... http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-18199-get-your-kicks.html
     
  2. OFCBDJ

    OFCBDJ Member

    Jul 6, 2013
    I guess that because I finally decided to register and respond to your

    I guess that because I finally registered and began to respond to your "Brad Lund is the devil, Tulsa is great, OKC is bad, someone owes Tulsa a professional team" drivel, you can give me a hard time. I have read posts on this site for years, but until you started bashing people that you don't know for something that happened 10+ years ago and began to criticize a group of people who have invested the time and money in to trying to put a professional team in OKC, I finally decided to register and try to set the record straight.

    Have I been a bit harsh on Funk and his group, yes I have. I have because he and his group know nothing about soccer, have no passion or knowledge of the sport, and are only pursuing a team with "Daddy's Money" because of his personal vendetta against the two principles of Sold out Strategies who left Express Sports when Funk Jr. took over from Daddy and proceeded to run OKC professional hockey into the ground. Funk's only interest in soccer is to keep Lund et al out of the sport. That I know for a fact.

    So, will I continue to be harsh on a group who will try and bring in USL, screw it up, and then ruin the OKC landscape for professional soccer, the answer is yes....

    Lastly, if you recall, Lund worked for Funk Sr. when he single handedly "compromised" Tulsa's ability to have a MLS team. Three questions for you....

    1) do you really thing that Brad Lund is/was so powerful that he could single handedly ruin Tulsa's chance for an MLS team?
    2) What happened to Tulsa's MLS ownership group? Did they just disappear when Lund ruined Tulsa's chance at Pro Soccer?
    3) Why aren't you mad at Funk Sr. who was obviously calling the shots back in early 2000 when Lund (his employee) ruined Tulsa's Pro Soccer future?
     
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  3. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Never said that, but he was NEVER a class act. The mayor of Tulsa and his entourage tried to downplay the Tulsa vs. OKC aspect in 2003... Brad did the opposite.

    Nope. Tulsa's LLC worked with DC United's Tim Kissler and Global Development Partners in 2005/2006 to secure a local TIF to finance a downtown MLS stadium since the Tulsa pols couldn't lobby the state for a Kansas-style "enterprise zone."

    Because Funk Sr never made claims to Mark Abbott and MLS offices about how he was gonna get an MLS stadium built in Bricktown... when that didn't work, Lund kept grasping at straws for a few weeks until he ran across the Wantland Stadium situation in Edmond... http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2002/07/Issue-208/Franchises/MLS-May-Be-Interested-In-Playing-On-The-Range-In-Oklahoma.aspx?hl=Mission Hockey&sc=0
    http://newsok.com/edmond-stadium-plan-may-score-a-goal/article/2803064
    Maybe... just maybe... Bob Funk Jr had deeper pockets and was better able to appeal to USL Pro than pitchman Brad Lund (and his backers) after they checked the books... and it seems clear that the NASL was a second choice for Brad Lund & Co behind USL Pro...

    To be fair, OKC's Cameron-Box Sports (WNBA) did more to destroy the Tulsa Talons arena football team than Brad ever did to destroy Tulsa's chances at MLS...
     
  4. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only other variable that I can think of is the recent news that the Houston Astros want to move their AAA franchise closer to them after next year. IF they do, and IF another team doesn't move in to fill the void, then Bricktown Ballpark will be empty. And at that point it would be a prime location for a soccer team
     
  5. Chowda

    Chowda Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I read somewhere the owner wants to buy the New Orleans Zephyrs (Miami's affiliate) and move the franchise close to Houston. Miami would need a new place for their affiliate, and the path of least resistance would be OKC. Quality ball clubs would shop around and extort some small town into building them something nice. But yeah, Marlins.
     
  6. superpoke

    superpoke Member

    Sep 15, 2011
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Today's news is that the USL-PRO group has announced a partnership with a design firm to build a soccer-specific stadium in OKC.

    They want to build it with a capacity of 7,000, expandable to the MLS-standard 20,000. For a startup third-division team. Right.

    They've got a good PR firm helping them, throwing all this kind of stuff to the press while the NASL group still has to be formally approved and then go to court.
     
  7. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And I still say it means NOTHING until something actually gets built. It reminds me of the grand announcements I read from VSI Tampa. It's such a fluff piece, with NO real information other than we're partnering with an architect to design a possible stadium, that MIGHT be built, SOMEWHERE, SOMETIME, with SOMEONE'S money
     
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  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be fair the Cosmos did the samething a little while ago, so is not only USLPRO.
     
  9. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    And Brad Lund himself did the same thing (for an MLS bid) in the summer of 2002.
    The media covered the story of MLS in OKC and a bricktown stadium despite the fact that Brad had ZERO chance at getting it done... all while Tulsa & Toronto delegations were at the MLS All-Star game.

    Except for this: At least Bob Funk Jr has a partnership with ADG who designed Bricktown Ballpark. And that's news no matter how you want to slice and dice it.
     
  10. OFCBDJ

    OFCBDJ Member

    Jul 6, 2013
    That's news? The fact that Prodigal has "hired" an architect firm doesn't really qualify as news. Now, if they were to announce where they plan on playing in 7 months...that would be news. I think they are trying to keep the story alive, hoping the NASL doesn't approve the OKC group led by McGloughlin and previously Lund. Weren't they supposed to announce a name on July 15th?
     
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  11. OFCBDJ

    OFCBDJ Member

    Jul 6, 2013
    My bad...name the team contest ends July 19th, not 15th. Only 3 more days to find out the name of the team that doesn't have a place to play and will probably fold before ever playing a game.
     
  12. Chowda

    Chowda Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    To be fair, the Cosmos submitted a proposal about a particular piece of land of which the county was looking for proposals.

    This is more closely resembles the VSI Tampa stadium search.
     
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  13. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Yes, it's news. Earthshattering?... not particularly.
    But yes, newsworthy...

    I'd be happy to find out that the Tulsa Athletics were partnering with Manhattan Construction and attempting to identify sites for a stadium... of any kind...

    I swear, if Brad Lund's group would've announced this very same deal today, you guys would be touting it as front page news...

    I like the NASL.
    It would be my first choice for a team below MLS for several reasons.

    But it clearly wasn't Brad Lund's first choice for an OKC team below MLS.
    And Brad Lund was clearly not Tim Holt's first choice for a USL Pro team, either.

    I seriously doubt that Tim Holt had any inkling that Brad would stab him in the back by trying to secure an NASL team within weeks of starting up his PDL club...
     
  14. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How? I would be exactly the same if I sent out a press release that said I had "partnered" with an architect to build me a 6,000 sf house.... It doesn't mean ANYTHING! I have no land, no money, no nuthin. But I sure want people to THINK I do.

    Actually I wouldn't, because I've seen too many of these "announcements" on BS from all over the country. They don't mean anything until dirt is actually moved. Like I said before, see VSI Tampa

    And I seriously doubt that Brad Lund, Debray Ayala, and Tim McLaughlin had any inkling that USL would stab THEM in the back by dealing with another group for USL Pro after, during, or before, they approved them for PDL. Still waiting for the outcome of the federal lawsuit.
     
  15. OFCBDJ

    OFCBDJ Member

    Jul 6, 2013
    Rufnex, you have your facts confused. Read the lawsuit. USL and Holt assured OKC FC that it had no deal with anyone for OKC market. OKC FC tried to start a USL team as logical progression. If PDL team is a success, then invest the money and go to the next step...the USL. Was USL the next logical step after PDL? Yes, and it was 1/6the price of a NASL franchise.

    And how did Lund et al "stab" USL in the back? Think about it. If Lund group didn't plan on going to USL pro, why join PDL and not NPSL???? Lund group was promised 1st shot at USL pro team in OKC. The USL and Holt backstabbed Lund et al, which forced Lund et al to make a much bigger investment and go straight to the NASL, which I think would have been step 3 over time if both PDL, then USL was successful, then the next step would be an MLS team. If MLS too much of a reach, then NASL.

    You can argue all you want about why USL chose Prodigal over Lund, but to say that Lund backstabbed USL is a joke. Why did they chose Prodigal, who knows....maybe "birds of a feather"
     
  16. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It will be ironic and sad if the USLpro successfully runs the NASL out of OKC only to fold up shop two or three years down the road.

    For soccer fans in OKC, I sincerely hope that doesn't happen. But everything about this USLpro franchise smells. If it turns out to be the next Phoenix, or L.A. Blues, or VSI, or (insert favorite USLpro team drawing flies), and ends up ruining the OKC market for pro soccer, that's bad, right?
     
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  17. superpoke

    superpoke Member

    Sep 15, 2011
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    This is exactly what I'm afraid of.
     
  18. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    I sense a bit of hypocrisy... as I've stated before...

    This was the same thing Brad Lund/Bob Funk/Express Sports did with MLS in the summer of 2002... and Brad didn't even have to announce he was partnering with an architect...
    There was buzz in the media and on sports radio, but it was nothing more than speculation... the OKC mayor's office didn't even know anything about the desire for a stadium at the time... yet it was reported in The Oklahoman that MLS was in talks with Express Sports and that those talks involved building a soccer specific stadium in Bricktown...

    I was living off NW23rd & Walker when Brad went public with little more than his own desire (and Bob Funk's tacit support) to see a team in OKC, so the experience is first hand.

    See also San Antonio... or St Louis (Collinsville, IL)... or Indianapolis... et al... you have to start somewhere. At least Funk Jr understands the importance of getting his stadium "ducks in a row."

    The correct answer to your "dealing with another group for USL Pro" assertion is... "before."

    First, anyone dealing with Tim Holt and USL would have had to sign some pretty detailed non-disclosure forms before even being allowed to talk with them in any detailed correspondence. Secondly, if Brad claims ignorance of the fact that owning a PDL club in USL would require an agreement that the parties involved would not try to pursue an NASL franchise, it would indicate that Brad is either naive or incompetent. Thirdly, if Brad Lund claims he didn't actually sign the papers so the PDL agreement doesn't apply to him, that'd be pretty underhanded in my book.

    Finally, it's obvious that Funk Jr had already been in discussions with USL at least a couple of years prior to Lund's group pursuing a PDL club... how serious those discussions were is anybody's guess... only Tim Holt and the USL know Funk Jr and Prodigal LLC's level of interest prior to Lund and Sold Out Strategies' launch of Oklahoma City FC... but Lund's feigned ignorance of what was going on just doesn't add up, IMHO...

    Can I see Brad Lund/Ayala/McLaughlin's side of the story in which they were led to believe they had Holt's blessing to pursue a USL Pro team as a direct result of owning a PDL club?
    In a word: yes.

    If anything, I thought it would have been Brad's group making the presentation for USL Pro at Taft Stadium while Funk Jr was the guy I would have predicted making the case for an NASL club...
     
  19. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    "...OKC group led by McLaughlin (edit: spelling) and previously Lund."

    Well... the statement above appears to be news... at least it's news to me...

    The entire presentation to OKC PS to secure a lease on Taft Stadium last month was done by Brad Lund and NASL Commissioner Bill Peterson. To my knowledge, Lund has always been the lead man and the group's spokesman... Wonder why Tim McLaughlin would take the lead in the NASL bid and wonder where Brad Lund fits in these days.... ?

    http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-awarded-developmental-soccer-franchise/article/3755423
    Maybe it has something to do with this.... http://newsok.com/pro-soccers-future-in-okc-will-go-through-courtroom/article/3858192
    Wonder why Tim McLaughlin is NOT mentioned as one of the plaintiffs?
     
  20. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're not serious, are you?
    M.O.N.E.Y.
    "...in addition to threatening to sue plaintiffs, the USL has sent letters to both the Board and Mr. McLaughlin. The USL threatened to sue Mr. Laughlin if he did not immediately 'disassociate' himself from plaintiffs..."

    Happy now?
     
  21. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Yes, I am serious...
    And no, I'm not happy for your misfortune. It's rather tragic, truth be told.
    However, if the lawsuit had no merit, as you insist... then Mr. McLaughlin wouldn't have a compelling reason to "'disassociate' himself from the plantiffs" before making a presentation to the NASL BOG.
     
  22. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See, your memory is either better, or jaded, or both. Because I NEVER remember there be much talk at all of trying to build a stadium in Bricktown. I remember VERY well (and I even found an old article) about partnering with an architect to redesign Wantland Stadium back then. There was A LOT of talk about that. I'm not saying I don't believe that they NEVER said they wanted to build in Bricktown. I'm just saying that as a Blazers STH back then, and a HUGE soccer fan myself, I do NOT remember a lot of talk at all about a downtown stadium.


    Wait, wait, wait...
    FIRST, if the PDL group came to Tim Holt and said, "Hey, we want to field a PDL team", I can only ASSUME that part of that conversation would have almost ASSUREDLY gotten around to, "and if we have success, we certainly would look at moving up to USL Pro", which is EXACTLY what the plaintiffs are arguing occurred. IF that convo did, in fact, take place, then the fact that Tim Holt did NOT mention that there was another group who had already applied for a PRO team (whether he named the group, or not) then that seems to me to be bargaining in vrey poor faith with the PDL group.
    Second, you seem to claim that SOS's strategy all along was to leap frog from PDL to NASL. And that isn't borne out by the assertions being brought forth in the lawsuit.
    Lund and his group are claiming that their first choice WAS USL Pro:

    http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/03/59060.htm

    "The plaintiffs say they asked the USL both before and during the creation of the amateur team if they could bring a professional team to Oklahoma City. They claim the USL told them "they did not need to worry; OKC PDL and the USL were now 'partners;' and OKC PDL needed to focus on getting its amateur team up and running."

    And seriously dude, this whole vendetta against Brad Lund is getting ridiculous.

    Yeah, that's what SHOULD have happened, in a perfect world. But like you seem to KEEP saying that Brad Lund ruined Tulsa's chances for MLS greatness, and he's the devil, blah, blah, blah... I guess I can admit I'm guilty of the same thing. I think Bob Funk is an ass hat. I will never go to another Baron's game. I won't support his team, if he succeeds in bringing it to town. Because, IMHO, he will run it into the ground EXACTLY like he has ran hockey into the ground in Oklahoma City. And it will have all the excitement and civic involvement of AAA baseball. Just another "event" to attend. No involvement required. You don't need to know any of the players names, or even anything ABOUT the game. Just sit there quietly, and go get your frozen lemonade at halftime. Am I being a little harsh? maybe?
     
  23. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Let me jog your memory a bit.... from Steve Lackmeyer...

    City Not Interested In Soccer Stadium
    Steve Lackmeyer • Modified: July 23, 2002 at 12:00 am • Published: July 23, 2002
    http://newsok.com/city-not-interested-in-soccer-stadium/article/2800786
    I remember thinking that the day OKC's Sports Animal starts talking seriously about an MLS stadium in Bricktown would be a sure sign of the apocalypse...
     
  24. OFCBDJ

    OFCBDJ Member

    Jul 6, 2013
    Rufnex, you are clearly an intelligent person. With that being said, do you really think that Lund et al's attorneys would allow Lund, Ayala, Jones, and Clark to continue to be involved with a NASL bid while there is a pending lawsuit, regardless of the case's merit? It is obvious that LAJC cannot work with McLaughlin on the NASL bid until the question of the "non-compete" is settled. Ask any decent attorney how valid a "non-compete" is in OK and you will find out how valid the USL's assertions are. This is more about them trying to protect other PDL teams from jumping, but OK is the wrong venue to try this issue.

    What's interesting is that Prodigal continues to act like they will put a team in regardless of what happens with the NASL.

    Also, I heard today that the USL sent a letter to both McLaughlin and OKC School Board withdrawing their "threats". If that is true (it came from a great source), does that change your thoughts on the USL's case?
     
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  25. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its kinda sad to see the arguing over such in-the-past things. Lets talk PDL/USL/NASL nonsense, sure. But does it have to de-evolve into discussing sorta-almost-not-really MLS teams and stadiums?
     

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