News: Bas Dost & Vincent Janssen

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Gilbertsson, Oct 13, 2016.

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  1. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Gimme a break. He couldnt even hold a starting job with midtable Wolfsburg
     
  2. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    According to some analytical approaches, these two players could become "The Dutch Dynamic Duo". Of course, we need to observe a lot of factors:

    - club coaching, ambitions, training level

    Bas Dost, as a northern European, with discipline plays really well in temperament Portuguese atmosphere.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bas_Dost

    Facts about Sporting C.P. school:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_C.P._Youth_and_Academy

    "Famous for its football youth academy system which features a range of well-equipped facilities and is one of the most renowned in the world, Sporting has continuously developed many world class footballers, such as Ballon d'Or recipients Cristiano Ronaldo and Luís Figo. The current squad for the 2015-2016 season has 11 players graduated from their youth ranks, including Rui Patrício, William Carvalho, João Mário, Adrien Silva, André Martins, Rúben Semedo, Carlos Mané,Ricardo Esgaio, Tobias Figueiredo, Gelson Martins and Matheus Pereira."

    Why would such club buy a player Bas Dost, if he isn't really excellent football performer?

    Sporting has strong ambitions, long tradition of success. He reminds me on van Nistelrooij. He was also discovered in his older age.
     
    P to the Wee repped this.
  3. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    T
    Lol sporting used to have the terror Van Wolfsvinkel as main striker few years ago, and he was scoring almost every game too...

    The portuguese league is almost as crap as the eredivisie when it comes to the little clubs and their poor defending.

    Bas Dost is a ok striker in his style but nothing special...Not even sure he would be the main striker in a PL sub club now, there are many players like him.
     
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  4. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Yeah...Dost is nothing special. Janssen has a chance to be though - he's already shown great qualities at such a young age.
     
  5. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Dost is basically another Huntelaar. He does have some usefulness though when it comes to Oranje
     
  6. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Huntelaar was incredible in the box in his prime despite never getting a prolonged backing for the NT. One of the best in last decade inside the box!

    Dost is way inferior!
     
  7. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    They have similar styles is what I meant. Basically tap-in artists
     
  8. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #9 Gilbertsson, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
    Huntelaar is a true goal scorer. Just observe his history and it's visible that he is very useful player, same as Bas Dost and Vincent Janssen. Bas Dost just needs co-players like Overmars, Bergkamp, Kuijt, Robben, Sneijder...the problem occurs if Dost gets one chance and he misses it. Real achievement is when Netherlands creates a lot of chances, as usual in previous periods.

    The problem is that Bas Dost isn't ex-player of Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, so three major fan groups can't affiliate with him. Dutch team always had that element..."great player, Ajax school of football". We observed Dutch players through these three clubs. Bas Dost went abroad without these three clubs, maybe even harder way to succeed, Wolfsburg, Sporting. Maybe with these three clubs as his youth domain, he would be already in Manchester United, Bayern, Juventus. In fact, he seems as Juventus material. Slightly static, but with goal instinct.

    For example, the match against France was really modest, very opposite from everything that I knew about the Netherlands. This Dutch chapter seems different than previous chapters, some new characters entered in the show. Key thing is that they act well.

    In some previous decades/years, people considered de Zeeuw, Mario Melchiot, Heitinga, Mathijsen, Engelaar, Bouma, Maduro, Landzaat, Kromkamp, Ryan Babel, Andre Ooijer as average, even weak players, compared with other known Dutch players. But in 2016, they would be useful. I believe that people will say the same for Dost and Janssen. Bad in 2016, great in 2022.:thumbsup: People cross very easy some players. Just observe, how many players became changed in Dutch team.:thumbsdown: Club football should evolve again, so that we can see Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, maybe AZ, Heerenveen, Utrecht, Willem II. etc.

    NEC Nijmegen and NAC Breda was a solid derby once.:cool:
     
  9. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Tap in artists, like Mario Gomez, Miroslav Klose, F. Inzaghi, Christophe Dugarry and other title holders.:) Nothing bad with tap in element.
     
  10. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Haven't heard for that player, for a moment I thought that you have invented this surname Van Wolfswinkel, it sounds like a medical person in some detention center...dr. Wolfsvinkel.:D Yes, he scored for Sporting L. a lot. Another case of a player who went out from the Netherlands without the clubs Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV as his career clubs.;) This is major success.
     
  11. Neeskens78

    Neeskens78 New Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    Huntelaar has had a very good career and it's a little unfair to describe him as a tap in artist.

    I'll never forget his fantastic cameo against Mexico in 2014 - made the equaliser with a great header down for Sneijder and then that pressure penalty.
     
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  12. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Huntelaar was a fantastic ST who was one of the best finishers in the last decade & Tap-in artist is a wrong description. Hunter IMO was much better in the limited chances he got vs a career flop in the NT named RVP who led the team down throughout her career!

    But Hunter vs RVP is over - Janssen is the future! I Don't know y we want to discuss Dost now, let him have 1-2 great seasons & then we will see!
     
  13. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I wouldnt include Dost in that list of strikers, at least not yet
     
  14. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    And I will also never forget our Euro 2012 game against Germany where he did absolutely nothing for 90 minutes. Or that 2 on 1 he had in dying minutes against Brazil in 2010 where he waited for eternity to pass the ball.

    A striker like Huntelaar has serious limitations.
    I would not start him in big games against the big countries. Dost is similar in that regard
     
  15. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #16 Gilbertsson, Oct 14, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
    Klaas Jan Huntelaar (Class Hunter).:)

    He started in PSV, usually their players are much more disciplined, focused on tactics. Ajax and Feyenoord seem much more creative. Maybe he is not La Liga, Serie A material, but for sure he is type for the Premierleague, Bundesliga, Eredivisie. Huntelaar is the second goal scorer of the Netherlands, he left Kluivert, Bergkamp, van Nistelrooij, Cruyff, Robben, Sneijder behind. I think that he could catch top scorer van Persie.

    Speaking in numbers: van Persie played 101 matches and he scored 50 goals. Huntelaar played only 76 matches and he scored 42 goals. In contemporary era, Huntelaar has far less caps than his competition.

    Imagine that Huntelaar didn't score those 42 goals. In his period, Netherlands had 2nd, 3rd positions at World Cup.

    These players are not popular, just because they don't wear glasses, dreadlocks, they are not vibrant in media space, they don't complain, they don't spoil the team spirit.

    On the other hand, we see Van Bommel, who ended in the team because of his father in law, became the captain, made a lot of fouls, earned few red cards and he became respected because of the noise that he made.

    I think that their silent nature has a lot of influence in creation of public opinion.

    Are these Dutch players great players: Ronald de Boer, Youri Mulder, Michael Mols, Frank Verlaat, Orlando Trustfull (he even became current Internazionale Assistant Manager, probably because of his impressive football skills and knowledge), Winston Bogarde, Jordi Cruyff, Boudewijn Zenden, Bert Konterman, Paul Bosvelt, Oude Kamphuis, Romeo Castelen and some others...? I think that they are all weaker than Bas Dost, Klaas Jan Huntelaar and Vincent Janssen.

    Some players are a product of family connections, they became coaches on some friendly ties.

    Some players were underestimated in Netherlands team: Vurnon Anita, Royston Drenthe, Bruno Martins, Jetro Willems, Georginio Wijnaldum, Eljero Elia, Gregory van der Wiel, Ibrahim Afellay, Urby Emanuelson, Hedwiges Maduro, Ryan Babel, Andy van der Meyde, Arnold Bruggink, Andre Ooijer, Roy Makaay, etc. They should become great players, if we consider their talent.
     
  16. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He only played one match at PSV and really didn't break through until he went out on loan and then Heerenveen picked him up. He moved on to Ajax where he was quite good but the Madrid transfer wasa disaster. IIRC a lot of Huntelaar's goals for the NT came against minnow competition and not the elite teams. He cannot create goals whereas van Persie could. He's never going to catch up to van Persie as he won't be called up again.

    Utter nonsense. I don't like van Bommel as a player but remember that he captained Bayern Munich and
    I think that their silent nature has a lot of influence in creation of public opinion. His selection to the 2010 NT had nothing to do with his marriage.

    yes we know that Jordi Cruyff is the son of Johan. So what. He had a career based on his own talent and has proven to be a capable in management. Which of the others had family connections?

    Underestimated? Some of them are just not very good (van der Wiel, Drenthe, Maduro) while others were decent (Oojier, Afellay; though injuries cut his time short, Makaay; though he was better at the club level)
     
  18. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #19 Gilbertsson, Oct 14, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
    Bayern Muenchen had some really bad players in technical terms: Anatoliy Oleksandrovych Tymoshchuk, Ivica Olic, Danijel Pranjic, maybe 1,2 Brazilian player...so Mark Van Bommel isn't some major exception.

    Jordi Cruyff was talented, but not Barcelona, Manchester United material.:)

    Van der Wiel was in some conflict with national team coach. He is very much talented. Some of those players had playful nature and they didn't accept football as some professional programme. Roy Makaay was always in the second plan...he played in Deportivo La Coruna, he created major success for that club.

    It's really hard to fit in Dutch team, a lot of players circulated, few coaching experiments were also present. Marco Van Basten should stay, that Dutch generation played very attractive, World Cup 2006.

    Personal marketing plays a strong role in promotion of footballers. Kevin Strootman is also underestimated, currently the best central player in his national team. On the other hand media wrote a lot about Sneijder, Van der Vaart, about their girlfriends, religious conversion, hair transplantation....they were also great, but few fashion escapes change public image and create the media stars.

    Kevin Strootman is calm, quite, kind, without media publicity, so people place him in the second plan.
     
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  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    vBommel was brilliant in WC2010, and thats all I'm gonna say
     
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  20. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #21 Gilbertsson, Oct 14, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
    Sneijder, van der Vaart, Seedorf, Davids, Cocu, Strootman, are much better than van Bommel.

    De Telegraaf Report

    http://www.football-oranje.com/feyenoord-make-bas-dost-key-target/

    "According to De Telegraaf, Feyenoord make VFL Wolfsburg’s Bas Dost their number one transfer target for the 2016/17 season."

    He is very appreciated at home.:)

    This worries me a lot.


    http://www.101greatgoals.com/news/three-holland-players-went-partying-defeat-france/

    The question is, can Bas Dost resist and win against global fame negative consequences?

    On the other hand, second talented player Janssen scored amazing goal.

    http://talksport.com/football/totte...-stunning-goal-netherlands-video-161007212799

    "The 22-year-old looks to have a serious amount of natural talent, and his eye for goal is sure to fire Oranje to great future success."

    http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new...-janssen-goals-international-round-up-081016/

    http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=84741

    http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/vincent-janssen-dutchman-wooing-arsenal-liverpool-and-manchester

    Firm sports genes and discipline custody.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annemarie_Verstappen

    I have noticed something interesting. Dutch people like to name their male children with female first names?

    Mark Peter Gertruda Andreas van Bommel

    Vincent Petrus Anna Sebastiaan Janssen

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_(Dutch)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_name
     
  21. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Only 2 of those (Davids and Stroot) are holding midfielders.
    So I have no idea where you're going with the rest of your post.

    You talk a lot of shit, but you make very little sense
     
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  22. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    In biography of Seedorf it says, Midfielder, same as with Cocu. Only van der Vaart and Sneijder are attacking midfielder players.
     
  23. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    P to the Wee repped this.
  24. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland

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