The Barcelona vs. Madrid is truly one of the greatest rivalries in the world of sports, but what are the definning lines which seperate the supporters of one club from the other. I want to hear what ideology, flavor, culture, history, style of play, or whatever else seperates Barca from Real and what makes one club better than the other?
The trouble between Madrid and Barcelona is political, cruel civil wars in the middle, I´m not instructed in Spain history but I have heard about it and that´s a big conflic that still exist. There´s conflics between regions in Spain, spanish and catalan regions: Barcelona is Catalan and Madrid Spanish (they don´t speak the same spanish language), and as far as I know Madrid was the center of Franco´s tyrany, nothing good for some Spaniards and many Barcelonistas hates them for that, Madrid was as the tyrant at that time, maybe wanted to conquer catalan regions. Is the story in that way? Also Galicia wants to separate from Madrid, the are not considered a part of Spain (ETA is involved in this) they want to be an independent territory. And so the story goes. Spaniards should knows better.
err...some things wrong... ETA is a Basque movement, in the province of the Basque Country... Galicia has no problem being a part of Spain, ...really, no province does, including Catalonia and the Basque Countries, although the latter's major political party Batasuna wants more provincial control and has been accused of protecting ETA... ...oh...and another thing... in Catalonia, they speak Catalan...in Galicia, Gallego...but in the rest of Spain, they speak Castellano, or what you call "Spanish". Carry on...
Basque in Basque country, Valenciano in Valencia (very similar to Catalan), I think even Mallorca has it's own language or they speak Valenciano (or Catalan).
I have never heard anybody lisp their s's. Also not all Spaniards speak this way (lisping the ce, ci). Coming from the south of Spain a lot of the castellano there is spoken more similar to the South American type. You cannot classify Spain as a whole because it has so many different parts of it. It is almost like the old Yugoslavia in a way.
Oh, well in the tapes we have at school, they make us listen to the spaniards and those from south/central America. There was an obvious difference in with the two. Maybe it's sorta like British English and American English. Anyways, our teacher told us that some king in spain had a really bad lisp, his ci and ce sounded like th, so all his servants copied him so they wouldn't offend and the rest of the people caught on to it. Is there any truth in this or is this just another old wive's tale?
Oh, thanks for the nice and gentle corrections, I wonder why you didn´t answer first PFKing15 question. Castellano is also called "Spanish", for your information, right or wrong. Spanish is the language spoken in 80% of Spain, isn´t it obvious? In South America people speak Castellano too, that´s Spanish in a common language.
Juanele, I think Im lost there, I've met several spanish citizens (from all over Spain) and ALWAYS sounded lisping!
Lots of wrong things here... The trouble between Madrid and Barcelona is political, cruel civil wars in the middle No civil war between Madrid and Barcelona, unless you count as this the Sucession War in the beginning of the 18th Century, but this wouldn't be accurate to the nature of this conflict. Barcelona is Catalan and Madrid Spanish (they don´t speak the same spanish language) They do. Both languages are official. For example, many famous Catalan writers or singers use both idioms. and as far as I know Madrid was the center of Franco´s tyrany, nothing good for some Spaniards and many Barcelonistas hates them for that, Madrid was as the tyrant at that time, maybe wanted to conquer catalan regions. Is the story in that way? Franco wanted an culturally homogeneous Spain. That's because many Catalans hate his regime. But he was despised by many democrats through the Peninsula. Also Galicia wants to separate from Madrid, the are not considered a part of Spain (ETA is involved in this) they want to be an independent territory. And so the story goes. Nationalism and independentism in Galicia are minoritary. ETA is a Basque terrorist group, nothing to do. Oh, well in the tapes we have at school, they make us listen to the spaniards and those from south/central America. There was an obvious difference in with the two. Maybe it's sorta like British English and American English. Mabye even more different. Anyways, our teacher told us that some king in spain had a really bad lisp, his ci and ce sounded like th, so all his servants copied him so they wouldn't offend and the rest of the people caught on to it. Is there any truth in this or is this just another old wive's tale? I think it's an old wive's tale. The "default" pronunciation of Spanish is lisping the cs. But in some regions, they lisp the s too, and in others they do not lisp any of the two. In Mallorca they speak mallorquín. Castellano is called Spanish outside of Spain, and sometimes inside too.
Read Phil Ball's books, Morbo and White Storm. Read Jimmy Burns' book, Barca, a People's Passion. Tony
The logical question relevant to football would be: who's the best player ever from each ethnic group? Catalan - Ricardo Zamora Basque - Iribar? Zubizuretta? Galician - Luis Suarez Castellano - Gento? Raul? Of course, I would have trouble putting the Kubala, Puskas, Di Stefano into one of these groups, even though they also played for Spain...
Well, ETA is a terrorist group that is included in the USA and in the "European Union" terrorist group list (with for example Al qaeda). Batasuna is also included for support the terrorism. The basque province problem is complex, because in the last elections the 51-52% voted parties (PNV,EA) that defends the basque independence, and the 48-49% voted parties (PP,PSOE) that don't want the basque province independence. The big problem in the Basque province is ETA (supported politically by Batasuna), that kill people that have voted democratically or simpatice with the PP or PSOE parties. Simplifying, PP is like the republican party and PSOE is like the democratic party in USA at spain level, and PNV and EA are at Basque level. About languages, there are 4 official languages in Spain. Castellano(Spanish), Vasco, Gallego and Catalan. The 99% of the people in Spain speak castellano(spanish), but at the same time they also speak Vasco (in Basque province), Gallego (in Galicia) and Catalan (in catalonia). Catalan, Gallego and Castellano are latin languages like italian,french or portuguese, all have roman origins. Basque language is totally different and it is imposible to understand anything. The "Institute Cervantes" in Spain is the organization that make the big rules for the castellano/spanish in the world, the other countries that speak spanish follow this rules making its own modifications. About the civil war, a big part of spain army(with franco as leader) make coup d'etat against the democratic goverment of Madrid. Madrid was the last city to fall against the Franco army after being almost three years surrounded. Franco replace the democratic goverment for his tirany goverment. The majority of the people in Spain was against Franco but he has the army/power, they couldn't do anything. The rivaltry between Barcelona and Madrid is economic, Madrid and Barcelona are the biggest cities in Spain. And political, independence problems. The political problems aren't as bigs as it seems. For example, In Catalonia province govern CIU (a catalonian party) thanks to the support of PP ("Spain" party) but they have similar ideologies (similar to republicans in USA). And The PP governed Spain eight years ago thank to the support of CIU.
My pleasure, Mario. The rivaltry between Barcelona and Madrid is economic Indeed... after Columbus discovered America, the Crown of Castilla held the monopoly of commerce with the colonies; the crown of Aragón (in which Catalonia was included) was not allowed to take part in the bussiness. Later, in times of Charles V and Phillip II it was Castilla who sustained economically the war effort for the most part, while Aragon refused. After that, the Sucession War takes place and the majority of the Aragonese nobles take part for the loser candidate to the throne while the Castillians win; furthermore, Ferdinand V comes from a very centralized country like France, and supresses the Aragonese laws and privileges. Hey, that's from the top of my head... there may be some unaccuracies.