Whose to say that Essien wont end up like Djemba anyway, after all, both were shining in the French League? Serious Question to us all.
lol, this is the sillyest part of a post I've read in a long time... So, selfish players can suceed at any club, just not La Liga players? I don't know if you've noticed, but our best attacking player over a 2 year period (CRonaldo, imo) plays a style that is very similar to that played in La Liga... is it his selfishness that allows him to succeed too? LOLOL
All we are saying is that Baptista IS the kind of end-to-end player that (most of the time regardless of nationality) succeeds in the Premiership. He is good work rate. Baptista still being relativally young (a year or so older than Essien I think) will allow him to still be shaped the way we want him to if he gets the proper training. Considered.. Essien still probably would be better for us at the current situation. He has been playing the DM position that we need for him to fill for Keano in the future all the time. He is also a devout Reds fan supposedly. (although that doens't nessecarilly matter, ie DJ-DJ). Off topic. What ever happened to Acronym...?
That is the most pathetic analogy I've heard. Basically you're problem is that you make broad generalizations and oversimplifications. Buying players is NOT like taking a spot kick. So far, the only argument I've heard against Baptista is his place of origin. Hardly any argument there...Baptista has characteristics that make him suited to the English game. I'm not denying that Essien could be a success at United too, but if you're going to argue which one would be better I don't think nationality is the way to go. Yes. Why did he bring in Djemba-Djemba, Miller, Laurent Blanc and Erik Nevland? Fergie may not be stupid, but he isn't infallible. FWIW, I think Fergie brought in Veron because he felt we needed more creativity and flair in the midfield especially for CL games. Well, if Baptista fails, it probably won't be because he's South American. If Essien fails, maybe we should peg it down to the fact that he comes from West Africa, and that West African midfielders don't do well at United.
Did I not just list a whole bunch of players to you? And no, none of them wanted to come to the EPL. At the time we were after them La Liga was the best league in the world. Best Pay Best weather Best teams Right, I know, lets leave and go to rainy Manchester! Another sweeping generalisation easily shot down with the simple mention of Antonio Nunez and Josemi. Reyes' issues were because of an off the field dilemma... So...if he had played in La Liga for say 2years before Arsenal took him, what would he be like then? Is that the players' fault or the managers? You don't buy a playmaker and then not allow him to 'make play' as it were. There is no way to gauge how successful Veron could have been if he was given the reigns of the team. So what about... Liam Miller, Djemba-Djemba, Luke Chadwick and any other player that came in or was brought up through the ranks and failed..why does your rule not apply to them? Should we never buy from ligue 1 again because of Djemba? So why haven't you mentioned Heinze...if you general rule applies to forwards..why does it not apply to defenders as well? The build of Baptista and the way he plays the game ensure he would be a success in England, imo. The rule never applied to Veron, Kleberson or Forlan
*Yawn* Being selfish in that sense means that Ronaldo doesn't care which club he plays for, because he won't change a thing. He won't have to adapt to any club, rather it's the club that would have to adapt to him. And it is extremely easy to prove it. Real Madrid's style over the past two seasons depended heavily on Ronaldo and even Raul was forced to change his usual game because of him. And once Ronaldo got his usual annual injury, Real started struggling and lost a bunch of points in La Liga. And weren't able to catch Barca because of it So, yes, selfish players with enormous talent, such as Ronaldo force the clubs to adapt to THEM. And that's why they are succesful. And the last time I checked CRonaldo was not a Latin American and never played in La Liga.
Its not being selfish, its called being damned Good... in one of his so-called bad seasons he scored 26 goals... Real did not beat Barca because Barca is a better team. punto finale! You can make comments like that about half a season or part of a season, but for 2 years running Barca has been the better team. Well, you got the enormous talent part right... tell me, would you classify Schevchenko as sellfish? Would any team in the world not want him? Do you think he'd be a failure in France or Spain, or England or Germany? Is that because he is sellfish? I never said CRonaldo was Latin American or played in spain, I said his style is very much like that played in Spain, he's more of a finesse player than Fernando Torres or Baptista but he's done fine here.
Janitor Award for Most Sweeping Statement goes to Stud83. Spaniards have done well in other clubs as well...Arteta for example played quite well for Everton in the latter half of the season. I don't think so: http://skysports.planetfootball.com...+Jury:+Jose+Antonio+Reyes&channel=premiership
His 'thing' is scoring lots and lota and lots of goals..Yes! Let's decline a player with the best goal tallies of his generation.... And would Ruud or Shevchenko have to change for any club? And if so..name them. Because Ronaldo was the only one ho g'teeing goals perchance? Raul had to change his game because his loss of form has been chronic.He didn't lose form because of Ronaldo. Which season are you reffering to? Well someone better tell Ruud to pack his bags then as we don't want such a selfish striker, according to you.
OK, please tell me what your thoughts were after the purchases of the midfield/forward Latin American players we've had recently (see, I have nothing whatsoever against Latin American defenders or goalkeepes, in fact I'd welcome, for example, Milito). My argument is that they struggle to adapt in the Premiership and so far no Latin American player has been able to succeed in the Premiership and aprticularly Manchester United. Not a single one. Over a looong period of time. Now tell me, why is that a bad argument? Nice one. Seriously. You are implying that Djemba-Djemba or Miller have the same quality as Veron or Kleberson? Djemba was never a star player. Neither before Man United nor after. Same can be said about everyone else from your list. As far as defenders - read above. I don't think Essien would fail, and plus you can't judge it by one player. There has been quite a few successful Africans in the Premiership. Now if Manchester United get Essien, and he fails, then they buy three more GREAT African midfielders and they all fail miserably, then we may start this discussion.
Just my two cents....I voted for Essien, just because we need a DM to either play along side Keano, or give him a break during the season. We were pretty fortunate not to have Keane out that much last season, and while I hope he can play the majority of games next season that may not happen. With that being said, however, I'd love to have Baptista come to Manutd. Like what others have said, he is a TANK!!! I found this compilation on Soccerpulse.com of Baptista's goals from 03/04. The quality is not the greatest, but it shows the type of player he his. Baptista Video He's strong on the ball, strong in the air and a couple of his free kicks were really good! So in the process of my post I have changed my vote to BOTH!!!
Djemba was a star in France, and highly rated by many, and wanted by many. I know for a fact, because i read it on soccernet.com. Infact if you want me to, i will post a link that says it.
I'm saying that to generalize is a bad thing. You seem adamant to believe that Baptista will be a failure at United because he is Latin American, and I don't think you can justify that. As far as successful players from Latin America in the EPL goes (fine, since you don't want to talk about defenders and keepers)...asprilla, gilberto, edu...just to name a few. You could also argue that so far the number of Latin Americans to have played in the Premiership for a substantial amount of time is a small sampling, and so there's a lesser chance of there being more examples of successes. I'm simply saying that they've failed to adapt to the Premiership...they both were in good form in their respective leagues and both had some very good CL performances. They've just not settled at United, and its not because one's African and the other is Irish. Huh? Blanc was a star for a World Cup winning squad before he joined United. And he's French, so your above statement about Latin American defenders doesn't apply. I don't think Essien would fail miserably either...but neither would Baptista. You can't judge it by three players.
Reyes was never a forward when he played for Sevilla. Plus, Arsenal is a better attacking team that scores more goals than Sevilla. Look it up: this season Arsenal scored 87 goals in 38 games, Sevilla scored 44 goals in 38 games. See the reason for the stats? What are you talking about? Did I ever say we should have declined him? Let me say it again: he's an exception to the rule. I mentioned it in the first message. Yes, he's selfish, but it's his game and he's very good at it. And if we are at it, I'd go on the record saying that IMO Ruud is the best crosser in MU right now. Although seriously, I don't see how Ronaldo discussion applies to this topic.
Your arguement about selfish strikers is nonsensical. A striker who scores 20+ every single year of his career will be coveted until he retires. And will not be chastised for any so-called selfishness...even though Ronaldo is far from selfish... Ruud on form is the most selfish striker of his generation...and so what? His job is to score goals. HE does that with applomb. Some of the one-two's and passes Ronaldo has played with Zidane and Figo could never be emulated by Ruud. Your perception of selfishness is odd. Inzaghi is a selfish player to me, not Ronaldo.
Its a bad argument because there is not a large enough sample size. The fact of the matter is, why would Latin Americans move to England when they can go to spain which has a similar climate, similar if not the same language and more of their countrymen? The best Latin American players go to spain, the best of the best, the ones who would succeed in any league go to the top tier of clubs in Spain and have no reason to leave. So we'd never see the tippy top of their group. Most who are toss-ups, maybe good enough if they adapt might never come and if they do, the big clubs where they have the best chance of succeeding (as they have more talented/flexible players and managers) aren't likely to take the chance on them. The 2 examples of La-Liga players who've been successful are Reyes who's actually better in the prem that he was in La-Liga and Alonso who's been amazing when fit. DjDj was no Veron, but Kleberson was no Djemba Djemba... DjDj had a bit of a reputation and sheen to him, wheras everyone was like Klebawho? By your standards we should never get another Czech player cuz Poborsky sucked for us right? You are searching for a way to eliminate masses of people - that's really scary cuz you think you are just being logical. Most people will say the English dont have any flair or style to their game, Joe Cole is an exception, so is Defoe. Most would say South Americans aren't known for their defence but you've got Heinze and Lucio but players dont succeed and fail because of where they come from, they succeed and fail because of their individual talent and their drive and committment, nothing else. 80 years ago you would find a whole bunch of people who would say black people are not intelligent, today they all turn on the same light bulb that proves them wrong, they move in traffic to the beck and call of a traffic light that also proves their assumptions to be wrong, by their standards blacks would never be given a chance at School cuz, you know, they wont be able to cut it. Stop being silly man.
That's actually a good point. But still my point stands. Most Latin American "superstars" that performed exceptionally well in other European clubs struggled in thePpremiership No, of course their nationality in this case has nothing to do with their success. As I said, there were quite a few successful Irish and Africans in the Premiership. But neither of them (Djemba or Miller) was even close to what Veron or Forlan or Kleberson were supposed to become. And you can take a look at their transfer costs to understand my point. OK. How many failures would it take for you to realize that I made a good point?
That is funny. Let me guess: you never bothered to check the final standings in La Liga in either 03/04 season or 02/03 season? Should I give you some time to find out this information and realize why you are wrong? Way to go with making an argument! Oh well, next time do your homework before making a statement. In 2004/2005 Arsenal scored 87 goals in 38 games. In 2003/2004 they scored 73 goals. In 2004/2005 Sevilla scored 44 goals. In 2003/2004 they scored a whopping total of 56 goals in 38 games. In 2002/2003 Sevilla with Reyes scored an absolute incredible 38 goals in 38 games!!! What were you laughing at, again?
Hey hey.... caught me w/ my pants down... I raise my hand, u got me... now... how bout u do that with 800 times u've been proven wrong in this thread already
my educated guess... you lot arent going to get either~ *waits for the "what are we going to do now that cron is sold?" thread*
The white pearl will not be sold. I am waiting for your * what is happening to our team* thread when Veira and your LB A.Hole is sold.