Ballon d'Or awards revisited by BigSoccer users

1-messi
2-mbappe
3-5:haaland,neymar,griezmann

 

With Messi, Mbappe and Neymar playing in same club it would be very difficult for Mbappe and Ney to surpass Messi...
Haaland is the only Messi rival for me...

 

Well, PSG's best player last season was Mbappé and by a good margin. Arguably top 2 in the World for me. And he has maintained regularity this season. Neymar got off to a meteoric start this season when Messi was down. Now Messi has returned to play well and has balanced the team. But I still think that Mbappé can "surpass Messi".

 

PSG took a quarry in the Champions League round of 16 and could fall early. I think if Haaland wins the Premier League and City's first UCL and is top scorer in both, he takes first place. Knowing the player he is, that shouldn't be difficult for him. As long as you don't get hurt, of course.

Lewandowski surprises me at number 5 on his list. I don't think he gets that far playing in the Europa League. Especially if you lose LaLiga.

 

I agree, in the sense that Messi started with an advantage and any club success goes for all three

 

Nah, I don't think that'll be enough this year, even if it perhaps should. The narrative power of a Messi WC win, especially if Messi doesn't fall apart at club level, is almost insurmountable, I feel.

This reminds me a little bit of Ronaldo 2002 BDO win.

 

Not sure if you still need it, but here is the translation:


FERENC Puskas, today's most famous soccer player, who has appeared on so many occasions in the pages of O CRUZEIRO as a subject, as news, today, exceptionally, changes position and is presented to our readers as a journalist. With absolute exclusivity for For this magazine, the king of Hungarian football wrote (and the columnist Janos Lengyel translated) a precious article about Honvéd's season in Brazil: how he saw each of the games, how he received the results, how the Brazilian player sees him, his defects and its virtues.

A football teacher in Hungary, where he taught technique courses in schools and over the radio, Puskas, with his indisputable authority and confessing himself to be an unconditional friend of Brazilian football, gives us advice: that our players be less individualistic; that the Brazilian teams adopt tactical plans that take advantage of the great qualities of the players, etc.

So let's take a look at the series of meetings between Hungarians and Brazilians and the conclusion reached by Ferenc Puskas, the idol of world football.


THE OPENING OF THE EMPORITY

ABOUT the first game we played against Flamengo, I have the impression that we at Honvéd would have achieved a better performance if the game had been postponed from Wednesday to Saturday. The whole week of anticipation took its toll on our team, which had already been inactive for three weeks. As for the game itself, I observed the following: Flamengo, individually and collectively, played excellent football, showing a technical and physical form that is rarely combined with such perfection in a team. Without detracting from the Flamengo team, I believe that our performance contributed in a certain way to the success with which the Brazilian scenario was presented. Our squad, that night, played completely wrong, especially the defense. The sextet's deficiency was evidenced in the six "goals" suffered. In any case, we could hardly have avoided that rout: above all was Flamengo's magnificent football. His players, very fast, took advantage of the chances to score, always running, indifferent to the heat. Already in that meeting, I was able to observe, however, the excessively individualistic style of the Brazilians who kept the ball unnecessarily, stopping a game that was going as they wanted.

I have no doubt that Flamengo managed, that night, its best performance against Honvéd.


Slow Pace, Good Football: Botafogo

FOR the game against Botafogo, we were able to prepare better and the proof of that was our performance. Better adapted to the heat and, mainly, to the Brazilian game, we didn't enter the field, so to speak, in the dark. And this is very important: the player must know, in advance, what the opponent's playing style is. I must say that, in my opinion, Botafogo's squad doesn't play less football than Flamengo. Your game is, perhaps, a little slower, but never inferior. The match was well balanced.

The third match, the second we had against Flamengo, was our best performance. I must say that that night we suffered a lot, as the field was anything but grassy to play football. In the end, it worked for us, and we played the best match of the entire season. I think the temperature favored us: a pleasant wind was blowing. As for Flamengo, it was on that night that the deficiency in their personal game was demonstrated: on the rough terrain, the dribbles did not go as the Flamengo players wanted, who thus lost an infinity of apparently dominated balls. Gradually, we managed to master the game, even. that, in the first 25 minutes of the second half, we produced really good football, managing to completely overcome the opposing defense, visibly surprised by the good functioning of our attack. We even won 6×1, until Flamengo's defense recovered. But then it was too late.


PUSKAS' BIG SURPRISE

I CONFESS that the fourth match, in Rio, against Flamengo, was the big surprise of the season for me. I never dreamed that we would win the game. Not that I considered Honvéd's squad inferior, but we thought, my teammates and I, that it would be too much to win three consecutive matches in Rio. This feat, if I'm not mistaken, had not yet been achieved by any other European team visiting South America. It was on that night that, in my opinion, Flamengo played less well. Maybe the players were tired or, who knows, the monotony of facing the same Honvéd three times had put them off. The truth is that we won, playing well and I hope we pleased. It is a reason for great satisfaction for me that despite the natural fatigue of so many games in a row, everything has gone well, without any injuries.

The farewell game, against Flamengo-Botafogo, left me with great joy: the joy of having seen the excellent football played by the Brazilian team, something, by the way, already expected by us, given the large number of "cracks" that integrated it. As for Honvéd, considering the Brazilian performance and also taking into account that we had some injured players, we did our best. Anyway, I think it was legitimate to expect better football from our team. Unfortunately, once again the defense was not up to the task. It may not be elegant to say this, but the truth is that our defense was at fault, as no less than four "goals" resulted from the failure of our men. Anyway, those of us on the front line also failed, not taking advantage of the good opportunities that were offered. It is necessary, however, to understand that, when an attacker loses a scoring situation, not everything is bad because he himself can create others later on. Now a defender, when he fails, there is no more remedy because the "goal" cannot be erased from the scoreboard. I repeat that the combination was wonderful. I don't want to praise too much so that people don't think that I'm trying to excuse defeat in this way. Believe me, however, that I speak with complete sincerity and with all the experience of my 20 years of football: I have never seen players as technically perfect as the ones we faced that night in the 6-2 match against my Honvéd.


THE HARD MISSION OF A "CRACK"

I take this impression of Brazilian football with me as I take the best memories of this beautiful city that is Rio de Janeiro. We are grateful to its immense supporters, to those people who love football like few others in the world. We are deeply grateful to Flamengo and Botafogo, in short, to all those who gave us the opportunity to come to Brazil to meet its people and its beautiful football. I also thank O CRUZEIRO magazine for the distinction of inviting me to write this modest article. The task is not easy, mainly because I was given the task of analyzing Brazilian football, pointing out flaws and giving advice. I talked to my pillow for a long time about this problem and it was only after a lot of talking that I decided to express what I think about Brazilian football. I hope my friends in Brazil understand my intentions and don't misjudge me. A man who loves football like me doesn't talk about a football school like the Brazilian one with resentment. On the contrary: he speaks with enthusiasm and good faith.

So, first of all, I want to make clear my conviction that Brazilian football is magnificent. Technique is the greatest virtue of the Brazilian player. I don't think there is a land in any other part of the world where the ball is so easily controlled and by so many people as it is here. I know countries with thousands of good players, but "cracks" in quantity and quality like in Brazil, I've never seen. Unfortunately, from a tactical point of view, there are big flaws. The game is overly personal and this puts a brake on the team's production. There is no reason for that in football where you have such fast players. It is a pity that this happens because, tying up the play, it allows the defense to position itself better to contain the attack.


Lack of aim: SERIOUS FAILURE

IF THERE WERE speed in the plays - the ball ran faster - and a player could never destroy it without having the slightest doubt.

Another serious flaw I noticed: the lack of aim. I have the impression that this is caused by running around in vain, which exhausts the player, harming him when shooting.

As for the game design, I believe that the biggest defect consists in not looking for the easiest solution for a move. I noticed that most players not only do not look for the best solution, but prefer the hardest one. It seems that there is a concern for display just to please the crowd. Well, this, in addition to harming the game, makes the athlete much more tired. I don't know what would happen to the opponents if the Brazilians looked for simple solutions...

It is evident that the player who wastes time and energy dribbling and making the play difficult becomes more tired and naturally impairs the shot on goal.


HOW TO DISCIPLINE THE STYLE

I also OBSERVED, in a certain game (Puskas is referring to the game between Rio de Janeiro and Pará) the visible inferiority complex of the weaker team in front of the stronger one, of the visitor in front of the one playing at home. Experience teaches that games are won in any field. The player must be sure that there is no game that cannot be won, even if the opponent is better. A lot can happen in ninety minutes.

My last piece of advice, or rather, my last suggestion would be for Brazilian football to resort to European coaches. I don't want, in any way, to discredit Brazilian coaches; I know perfectly well that the players here don't need technique lessons because the great truth is that they are pure talent, they are born knowing. But I have the impression that the concept of the game that people have in Europe - the sense of teamwork, concern for finishing, the simplicity of tactical plans - could be very useful for Brazilians.

In one of the last meetings that the O CRUZEIRO reporter had with Ferenc Puskas, he was asked the following question:

Who is the best player you saw in Brazil?

Puskas responded enthusiastically:

Didi. That, in my opinion, is the perfect "crack". He is capable of kicking the "goal", of making a pass, of dribbling in the smallest possible space of the field. A player who does not need space to execute a move is a "crack". It's a pity that Didi, from what I saw, dressed up as a midfielder, when he's a player to do much more than what's required of a midfielder. Didi is not a liaison midfielder - he is a perfect striker.

 

I really would love to see the topic of the greatest player ever! I myself am not able to distinguish between Messi and Pele. I also have a crazy hard time to make a ranking between Di Stefano, Cristiano Ronaldo and Cruijff.

Furthermore, I think it is possible to argue for Pele winning the Ballon D'Or in 9 different years, namely '58, '59, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '69, '70. I am not sure if he should get it in all of those years, but in the furthest extension I think these are the years where he is at least a serious contender.

 

Haaland suffers from the same thing as Lewandowski: not (yet) the right nationality, albeit pethaps not the same linguistic handicap (Norway gets increasingly drawn into the Anglosaxon orbit).

One of the reasons why these 'awards' (originaly meant to sell magazines and exotic escapism - don't forget this) are a joke and have always been.

See also for example the 'ignorance' for Cruijff in 1969. Led his team to to the European Cup final with 6 non-penalty goals and 6 assists (some pre-assists), created a goal in the final against a team conceding extremely little (only 4 goals at home in the entire season), was the only Ballon d'Or listed player of his team and to be highlighted anywhere (a true rarity for a team reaching the EC final). A true underdog player.

I am not saying it is 100% certain someone was/is the best. Only that it is a joke and works through decades later (when there is another handicap and ganging up to beat).

 

I also think this will happen but I don't agree. It will be like in 2021 when he won the narrative of the first title with Argentina. As you said, Ronaldo 2002, Cannavaro 2006, Modric 2018, etc...

 

Nah... Pelé had a higher peak, he was more consistent and won more achievements. What Messi is achieving at the end of his career, Pelé did at 18 years old. Messi shared a stage with Ronaldo. Pelé was at the top alone in an era with Puskas, Di Stefano, Charlton, Eusébio, among others to compete and still he was better by some margin

 

My Ballon d'Or is a calendar year. I think my podium will be Mbappé, Messi and Benzema

 

Again, I am not sure which one is better, but here are some possible counterarguments.

Well the regarding the higher peak, so I guess that would be either '58-'65 compared to '10-'17 (statistic wise) or '61-'65 compared to '10-'13 (again regarding the statistics). For the 5 year comparison, Messi For the 8 year comparison, Pele has 6 more goals than Messi note however tha

Thanks for the invitation to vote! I will give my vote for the relevant Messi and Pele years, later I will add the other years.

For the relevant Pele years:
1958:
1. Pele
2. Didi
3. Kopa

1959:
1. Pele
2. Di Stefano
3. Kopa

1960:
1. Puskas
2. Suarez
3. Pele

1961:
1. Pele
2. Sivori
3. Garrincha

1962:
1. Pele
2. Garrincha
3. Masopust

1963:
1. Pele
2. Rivera
3. Yashin

1964:
1. Pele
2. Suarez
3. Law

1965:
1. Pele
2. Eusebio
3. Suarez

1966:
1. Eusebio
2. Charlton
3. Beckenbauer

1967:
1. Albert
2. Johnstone
3. Charltion

1968:
1. Best
2. Charlton
3. Eusebio

1969:
1. Pele
2. Rivera
3. Tostato

1970:
1. Pele
2. Jairzinho
3. Muller

For the relevant Messi years:

2007:
1. Kaka
2. Messi
3. Ronaldo

2008:
1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Torres

2009:
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Xavi

2010:
1. Messi
2. Iniesta
3. Xavi

2011:
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Xavi

2012:
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Iniesta

2013:
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Ribery

2014:
1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Robben

2015:
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Neymar

2016:
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Suarez

2017:
1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Neymar

2018:
1. Messi
2. Modric
3. Ronaldo

2019:
1. Messi
2. Van dijk
3. Mane

2020:
1. Lewandowski
2. De Bruyne
3. Cristiano

2021:
1. Messi
2. Lewandowski
3. Kante

2022:
1. Benzema
2. Salah
3. De Bruyne

 

I know its hard to distinguish the multiple peaks he had, but I will die on the hill that 14/15 was Messi's true peak, and also the greatest peak the world has ever recorded on footage.

 

Just for our project I was assuming we might stick to the same method (some using calendar year moreso, some season) and retain the balance of it, but you are in charge rather then me of course so if you insisted on season votes only from 21/22 then that's your call of course (and I wouldn't refuse to tally up the points or anything lol!).

For the real award I think it probably should be clearer now and everybody who votes will be doing so on the basis of seasons. So it's whether we want to continue with the same method/voting balance (pretty equal between calendar year and season, or like I did mixing the two to make a vote even), or you want to make it in line with the actual Ballon d'Or (although our early years votes are not anyway, because the actual Ballon d'Or was meant to be calendar year based and I think it probably was initially moreso in reality too in terms of how voters voted, not that they would all look at it purely that way maybe, because it's always tempting to look at players season's overall, statistically and performance wise....and the viewing of players would probably have been more limited for journalists back then so they might go a little more on the recent trends of form over a bit longer than one calendar year anyway, which also fitted the original criteria perhaps too).

 

Having said that, I didn't know whether we would stop at 2022, because afterwards it's only a case of opinions about real-time Ballon d'Or results maybe (which would be discussed elsewhere on Big Soccer) and with a gap of a year each time maybe it's tricky to continue with the same voters?

 

Hi lads,
If it's ok, I'll just go back to my initial Francescoli/ Laudrup tie at the 5th place in '85 (instead of Dasaev).
It's the only one tie I'll have. It suits my conviction way better. That's my preferance amongst the outfield players and I'm not even sure that Dasaev was better than Schum on this one.

 

Yeah, I'll get that adjusted at the next 1980s update for you (look out for half points appearing for Francescoli and Laudrup then), assuming it's ok with IceBlood (I think surely it will be because some guys did change their votes obviously in the end, and because we have some other votes which do have tied placings included).

 

Only half of that season IMO


2011 is the one for me

Destroyed Real Madrid on every stage except the copa del Rey final

Ferenc Puskas scored a hat trick in Open play in the 1962 EC final at 34 years old against Eusebios Benfica


No penalties won by other players or nudging the ball over the line
You can check his goals if you want


Is the 1962 version of Eusebio really that much worse than Mbappe

Eusebio scored 2 goals+1 assist in the 62 EC final.
1 of those was a penalty that he won(gaining full credit as a open play goal IMO)


It’s the same thing as 3 goals(2 pens)+0 assists in a World Cup final