Ballack or Baptista?

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Dark Savante, Jul 10, 2005.

  1. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    I woke up this morning with emails from two different people telling me we are in for Ballack. And today’s New’s of the World has run with the ‘story’ as well as it being discussed on other forums by some people who rarely get stuff like this wrong (connections to the club). I’m beginning to wonder.. although I remain sceptical some of the people talking about this now are not ones for idle gossip/banter, so I dunno anymore. *shrugs. I’d love to know what the word is in and around Munich about Ballack.

    Anywho, if we had the choice between Ballack and Baptista who would you like to see at the club?

    I suppose the obvious choice is Ballack but I think the two are worthy of a pros and cons analysis to help with the vote :D

    Ballack

    Pros

    - This guy is a proven world class talent. In fact, he would have the choice to join any top club in the world – many would demote a player to the bench to accommodate him.

    - Technically sound in all aspects of his game from shooting on either foot to passing, heading, tackling (when he can be bothered) to the intelligence he displays when making his runs into the box.

    - Has a huge amount of big game and CL experience.

    - Would be absolutely undaunted in any way playing for Manchester United i.e he’d cope with the pressures associated with the expectation of winning/delivering every week, easily.

    - A midfield of –Ballack—Keane—Scholes? Hmmm…

    - An actual threat on corners and can take FK’s

    - He has a great scoring record from midfield.

    - The league he is coming from is very physical, the EPL should hold no surprises to him whatsoever.

    - David Jones could have no better midfield set to learn aspects of the game from then Ballack, Keane and Scholes

    - He undoubtedly enhances the actual 1st team immediately. To such an extent you would expect our midfield to be the best in the league.

    Cons

    - He’s 28. Although he has 2-3years where he is supposed to be in his foot-balling prime.

    - His ego is huge. If he doesn’t hit it off with SAF and his team-mates huge trouble ahead. Disharmony in the dressing room perhaps.

    - His arrival demotes Fletcher to the bench. You start a fit Ballack regardless of the system you play.


    Baptista

    Pros

    - He is only 23. That is a potential decade of service or the chance to sell him on for more than we pay for him.

    - He gives our midfield some badly needed pace and energy – this is something Ballack cannot deliever.

    - He scores lots and lots of goals. He has a great eye for the net.

    - Very hard player to contain. He and Rooney in the same team would be a nightmare to stop.

    - He can play 4 different positions and is cover for the 3 positions he is not playing in in any particular game.

    - Strong as an ox and robust. You would think he is ideal for the EPL if he has the heart for the battle (everything about him suggests he has to me)

    - A player that could become great with us and moulded into whatever we wanted.

    Cons

    - It has to be said that there is a lot more risk getting Baptista then Ballack who is an actual world star of the game.

    - He has no CL experience.

    - The acclimatisation process has to be something to consider.

    - 2 seasons of top level performance is small change compared to Ballack.

    - I’m not sure how much Bayern would want for Ballack but, as he is in the last year of his contract, I think Baptista would actually cost us more to sign as he has a few years left on his. I guess it would even out when wages are factored in.


    Feel free to add on pros and cons. I’m just wondering which way people will sway given such a choice. Essien is Chelsea’s to lose. I’d be perfectly happy with either of these two in our team and Jones coming through and then us either going in for Essien (if he’s still at Lyon) or someone else next year as the Keane replacement if Jones is still not ready by the end of this upcoming season. If king tw@t Rio signs, I’d say that would be our lot for the summer and we’d have a serious squad capable of winning the title.
     
  2. Ronaldo07

    Ronaldo07 New Member

    Mar 2, 2005
    Ballack, the guy proved for Germany recently what a player he is. isn't he quite tall too which could also help us out abit.. i think ballack coming in would really send a message down, park and vds are good shroud signings but i think we need a big name, of course you don't sign a big name just because hes a big name, but a midfielder is what we need and we not going to get essien. he would also help scholes out with the burden of scoring goals from midfield. he has a ego, but he is a winner and we need winners on the team.
     
  3. stevieg987

    stevieg987 Member

    Mar 20, 2005
    you guys have no chance for ballack unless you sell rio. Then you could buy them both.
     
  4. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    Ballack is in the last year of his contract. Unless he re-signs several clubs have a chance of signing him for way below his actual value.
     
  5. Ronaldo07

    Ronaldo07 New Member

    Mar 2, 2005
    perhaps we are waiting for chelsea to snap up essien before we make our move for ballack, then it will probably be between us and Real Madrid for his signature.
     
  6. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    The rumblings are that Madrid are back in for Vieira..
     
  7. haven

    haven New Member

    Jul 9, 2003
    Boston, MA
    I say that we sell Rio, then buy Baptista, Ballack, and some random Italian defender.

    I'm serious. I'm sick of Rio's ********. Forgetting to take drug test's...forgetting occasionally that you have to bother marking the other team's players on corners...then demanding record contracts.

    ******** you, Rio. A random Italian with less ability and more concentration would work fine. Especially if it means we could have Ballack & Baptista :).
     
  8. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    I agree. Chivu and one or both of those two would be possible off the back of Rio leaving... Sell deadweight to free up wages..
     
  9. DutchFootballRulez

    Jul 15, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately, SAF already has been quoted as saying "I think Rio Ferdinand is the best Defender in the World."
     
  10. MANUTDGAL

    MANUTDGAL New Member

    Mar 15, 2005
    Framingham, Mass.
    Ballack then we would have a player capable to scoring
    on a free kick. :)
     
  11. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Monday follows Sunday.........my only question would be why it took so long this summer for this Old Faithful-like rumor to spout up again.
     
  12. Achtung

    Achtung Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We could optionally overspend on average Spanish players...
     
  13. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    I would have to go with Ballack because he could help score goals if Ruud or ROoney are either Injured, or not up for it. He would work well in that 4-3-3 with Keane and Scholes, or which ever combo.

    About buying an Italian Defender.... Paolo Cannavaro, from Parma is showing promise as is Bonera. Even Ferrari from Roma. There are a lot more defenders on the market than it appears.

    But we cannot sell Rio. I think we should give him that extra money but tie him down for the rest of his Career, for like the next 6 years atleast.
     
  14. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Chivu is Romanian.... right?
     
  15. phishnchipz

    phishnchipz Member

    Jul 22, 2004
    baptista is not a very good passer of the ball and his passes are not creative. if anyone saw germany's games in the confederations cup, you saw how ballack has been hitting a rich vein of form recently.
     
  16. JinJin

    JinJin Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    Ontario, Canada
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    yep, AC Milan fans seem really high on him and always pictured him as the eventual successor to Paulo Maldini.
     
  17. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yea, Chivu is fantastic, not only is he a strong and determined defender, he has tons of leadership qualities and can play in several defensive and attacking midfield roles.
     
  18. listen_up_fergie

    listen_up_fergie New Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    Montreal
    Is Rio really as good as he thinks he is??
     
  19. Rewinder

    Rewinder Member+

    Jun 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  20. listen_up_fergie

    listen_up_fergie New Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    Montreal
    In a way it might be good for us. If he doesn't sign a new deal with Sevilla, which he doesn't seem keen to do, then we have a chance of getting him on a free next year (his contract does end in 2006, doesn't it). Of course, it would mean that the wages we would need to offer him would need to be quite significant as several clubs like Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barca, and perhaps Chelski will be interested in his signature. But if he is really keen to join us, then it would be perfect for us. I think we will be allowed to talk to the player around January 2006 if his contract is running out in July 2006, and so we could make a swift move for him and persuade him to join us.
    And once he gets a European passport, we won't have to worry about work permit problems at all.

    Ballack shouldn't be too expensive considering his age, and the fact that he is in the last year of his contract. If Chelsea get involved, the price will undoubtedly shoot up unless Ballack firmly states that he won't be joining Chelsea at any cost. If they don't get involved, my guess is that £10m should do the trick.
     
  21. HjkF50

    HjkF50 New Member

    May 1, 2005
    NOVA

    i understand that he's in his contract year and so on and so forth but would u sell micheal ballack for 10 mil?!?!?
     
  22. listen_up_fergie

    listen_up_fergie New Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    Montreal
    Would you let him go for nothing in a year's time?
     
  23. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    :)
    Could SAF be wrong? God forbid the thought.
    At this time the poll indicate a 9:1 decision in favor of Ballack. One can only hope.
     
  24. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    Essien yes, Ballack no. As L_U_F already said and I pointed out in the initial post, he is 28 and in the last year of his contract Bayern can't command his true value under such circumstances. Ballack is a prestige player you wont see him at Chelsea no matter how much they offer. He wishes to leave a legacy..i.e he will be going to a big club as opposed to one with lots of money. Real, AC maybe Barca or Juve and us or Liverpool as the English choices.

    Besides which:

    1. Chelsea can't bid for both Essien and Ballack. You don't bench either and there is only 1 1st team spot available for a midfielder. Most fans would be happy getting the 'left-over'

    2. Essien is more of a Mourinho player than Ballack is.(Ego, superstar behaviour)

    -----------

    Can I just say this poll is complete landside :eek:
     
  25. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City

    Well i think he is. I agree with SAF, because Nesta, who would have been my choice, seems to have injury problems atleast every season and is getting old even though for a defender 29 is still OK.

    Put it this way, how many midfielders do you know can play so elegantly on the ball, barely every gives it away, Every team in the world would put Rio in there Starting line up. He has pace that is good for recovery and he is in the best shape of his life. Can start attacks through him.
     

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