Ball is in play when it is "kicked" and "moves"

Discussion in 'Referee' started by wjarrettc, Mar 30, 2003.

  1. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another in my series of "ask the expert" questions. I got into a discussion yesterday with a coach on what constitutes "movement" as expressed in Law 13 in regards to an indirect free kick.

    The coach contended that his player simply tapping his foot on top of the ball was "kicking and moving" the ball. I tend to interpret this law as the ball must move from the spot it is resting to another spot (maybe just a hair away, but the player must impart some visible motion).

    Luckily, no goal was scored in this situation so it was merely an academic discussion, but I'm curious how you guys interpret this law.
     
  2. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Do you have a copy of Advice to Referees? If not, read online. http://dps.altdc3.va.twimm.net/USSF/doc/content/doc_6_41.pdf

    Regarding kicked and moved, see this excerpt:

     
  3. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Excellent reply, thanks. That clarifies the issue.

    It is too bad that the Advice to Referees wasn't distributed in our ref class along with the LOTG and the Guide to Procedures.

    I guess I should print out this whole document and study it!

    Jarrett
     
  4. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    My high school coach occasionally ran a play where we would look like we were preparing for a free kick and one of the guys on the ball would roll it around like he was adjusting it, then would walk away calling for another man to come take it. At that moment the lone player standing over the ball would take off with it. I saw it run 3 times in two years. It only worked once and only because the player with the ball was taken down in the box by a surprised defender. Our coach made it clear that a roll or kick of the ball, even a minimal one that moved the ball from its spot was considered putting the ball in play. The rest was up to us to act like it wasn't 'really' playing the ball. Each time we ran it the ref was good enough to know that the ball was in play so we never had an issue.
     
  5. Greyhnd00

    Greyhnd00 New Member

    Jan 17, 2000
    Rediculously far nor
    Memorize it....Especially law 12....They stopped distributing this to reffs in michigan too. I think it is a bad idea. It is an invaluable document and if you can quote it verse and line the players and coaches will respect you.
    Another peice of advice...........dont EVER rely on a coach to have more knowledge then you. You need to be the most knowledgeable person on the field or you are going to have problems.
     
  6. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Oh, don't worry about that. As a referee, I apparently suffer from "Illusory Superiority" complex (according to the Guardian, anyway).

    Never let them smell fear (or doubt), right?

    Jarrett
     
  7. GKbenji

    GKbenji Member+

    Jan 24, 2003
    Fort Collins CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This "trick" play was used by the US Men at the 2002 Olympics and the ref called the second player for a double-touch. Twice. I also (and, in fact, have) whistled for a double touch, and give the opponents a free kick.

    Read Gary V's post again: "the referee must judge carefully whether any particular touch of the ball and subsequent movement was indeed reasonably taken with the intention of putting the ball into play rather than with the intention merely to position the ball for the restart."

    If you call your teammate over to take the kick, IM not-so HO as the referee, the ball was not put into play.
     
  8. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    It's all in the execution. One of out assistant coaches used to be a college ref and showed us what needed to be done to pull it off. First, you must make sure that the ref is looking when the ball is rolled. Second, you must not verbally call another player over, just a wave and both of you start walking at each other. A good ref knows the ball is in play and should let it go. I remembered that we tried the play near the end of my senior year and after the ball was touched and just before we were ready to run it, he yelled "balls in play." Needless to say it didnt' work, but we did get a corner kick and a subsequent goal.
     
  9. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ]

    Damn Ref!
     
  10. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    We jumped him the parking lot after the game. :)
     
  11. jacathcart

    jacathcart New Member

    Oct 11, 2002
    Tacoma WA
    Putting the ball into play

    The team that tries this had best be sure that it positions the ball only with the hands prior to putting it into play 'cause the ref may be good enough to allow a defender to charge the ball the first time a team that runs this trick play simply tries to position the ball by rolling it with the foot.

    Jim
     
  12. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Re: Putting the ball into play

    The ref also might be good enough to call a second touch when the ball is "positioned" by foot and then kicked by the same player. He might even be good enough to call handling on a team where the ball is "positioned" by foot, and then "repositioned" by hand.

    This is the main reason these trick plays should be discouraged. A team can't have it both ways - either the touch puts the ball into play or it does not. If they want it to be considered in play for purposes of their trick, they will have to accept that it is in play whenever they touch it by foot on any subsequent free kicks.
     
  13. XYZ

    XYZ New Member

    Apr 16, 2000
    Big Cat Country
    At least be consistent. Sheesh!

    Apparently, according to today's WUSA game on PAX
    Heard twice quite clearly on the broadcast.

    Someone has evidently not read the memo, and is going by what is written in plain English in the LOTG. Can they do that? ;)
     
  14. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And then there's the physicists in our group who will contend that the ball is constantly in motion. :)
     
  15. Tame Lion

    Tame Lion New Member

    Oct 10, 2002
    Southern California
    The bottom line is ITOOTR!
    In my opinion deception by attacking players is okay, but if the deception is so confusing to fool the referee, it doesn't work.
     

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