Bad stories

Are you carding the player trying to grab the ball? Or the original foul? Not sure with some of your questions and comments...

Either way, hindsight is 20-20, and I have no clue what the temperature of the game was before this to go off on the referee like this.

 

1st "real" match of the season. I'm AR1 ... Blue has ball at midfield, attacker in the PA in an offside position. Blue bombs it long, Green defender sticks a toe up last minute (when my kid did this we called it a flamingo, off balance, standing on one leg leaning backward) and deflects it to the Blue attacker who scores. My flag goes up.

Massive argument deflection / deliberate play. At one point I offered to bet the coach my game fee I was right. Pulled up the IFAB app after the match. Still waiting for my $$$.

 

If there is a name for it, Flamingo, it must be a deliberate play?

 

The initial foul. Just wanted to see if people thought that it should be a yellow, because if it was (which I think it was), and the referee had treated that as such, it probably prevents this entire confrontation. Run over, double tweeting, yellow out probably stops the attempt to pick up the ball that leads to all this. Instead, a lack of a yellow and lackadaisical reaction leads to national/international sports story.

 

The NCAA sent the video of the UMass/Amherst game out to its referees with a written commentary. It also was from a better angle than the one shown here. Both players were given red cards for fighting. However, the NCAA committee feels that it is more appropriately classified as Violent Behavior II as no punches were actually thrown, which is the criteria for fighting in NCAA soccer (the better angle clearly shows no punches thrown). However, both fighting and violent behavior II get two game suspensions in NCAA soccer.

In NCAA soccer, there are three levels of what would be violent conduct in IFAB soccer. Violent Behavior I is your "garden variety" violent conduct (an excessive act or use of force when not challenging for the ball). Violent Behavior II is "malicious and so extreme and serve that it places a participant in danger of physical injury." Examples they use include head butting, elbow to the face, stumping, hair pulling, etc. Fighting is a deliberate punch or strike.

 

Thanks, but wait...unless I am seeing things...Rutgers player (player in red) clearly threw punches and one while the UMass player was on the ground. How is that not considered as fighting? Clearly both need to be sent off, but I am a bit confused.

 

Sorry what do you mean by #33 was challenging for the ball? It was a dead ball, just because she was “trying to pick up the ball” that’s not challenging for the ball right?

So picking up and body slamming a player isn’t considered “fighting” because no punches were thrown. Brilliant NCAA.

 

"[...] due to the body slamming, hair pulling and throat grabbing, the totality and intensity of the altercation is enough to sustain a fighting ejection."

 

In MMA, we'd say the Rutgers player had some impressive ground-and-pound.

 

If I could play the Commish...5 match suspension for the Rutgers player and one match suspension for the UMass player.

 

There's a freeze-frame in the video clip that clearly shows white #33 grabbing red #3 in a headlock hold. That's action itself is VB II, no matter if she was just thrown to the ground or not.

If the R didn't consider that action to be VB II, there's some equal hair-pulling from both players that would upgrade the red cards to VB II.

Either way, it's a red card for each and get them both out of that game. Let the conference or NCAA figure out other punishments. Writing both for VB II helps get this upheld for both players. Only UMass submitted a protest though.

 

I understand your logic, but if the assessor wants to press you on the category of the caution then you tell him/her "game control" or "man management" or simply "unsporting behavior". Those might be old terms but the assessor will understand. if that assessor doesn't understand then you simply nod your head and move along to the next game. A yellow card is designed to be a warning, nee a deterrent to the alternative, which is a red card. If one caution stops a fight that would have 2 red cards, then you did your job as a referee. Misconduct category be damned.

 

In the video sent out by the NCAA (which is at an angle closer to the play and ground level), it is clear that no punches were thrown.

 

That's right. It's not a fight because a fight involves punches being thrown. However, it is Violent Behavior II. Both fighting and Violent Behavior II get the same punishment: a two-game suspension.

 

Correct: two levels of violent behavior and then fighting is a separate category. But in IFAB, all three VB I, VB II, and fighting would all be classified as the same misconduct violent conduct.

 

Yes but you need to tell the coaches what the reason is at the time and if you get it wrong, you end up with protests and nobody wants that.

 

Hey Dayton since you’re a National ref, what’s your opinion (with respect to regular foul or yellow card and if it’s reckless or SPA if you think it’s worthy) on the initial challenge that led to all this?

Well I mean the category would be under unsporting behavior, it’s just debatable between reckless or spa if it indeed reaches the threshold

 

Where is that?

 

I had careless foul. It happens 15 yards into the defensive half with a couple of other defenders back so it isn't SPA. There isn't force to it, it is hard to tell from the original ESPN camera but the attacker doesn't go flying and there isn't big movement by the defender throwing themselves into the tackle.

White #33 tries to grab the ball and it slips out of her hand or Red #2 controls it away, the referee starts moving laterally to see between the two players. The ball is now under Red and when White can't pull the ball out from between the legs of Ref, White body shoves Red. We criticize refs in CONCACAF for running into every foul where there is a player on the ground because it looks like the ref is raising the temperature coming in hot. This is the one time when it might have helped.

I am an assistant, so player management isn't necessarily strong suit, but my preference is to use my voice. When the first attempt to grab the ball isn't successful, start shouting, "Leave the ball." I don't know if that would have improved the situation, but that's how I see it.

 

I think my favorite part of the NCAA's close up video is UMass's #77, the closest player to the altercation, standing right above them bereft like "what can be done about this?" while her teammates fly in from further away to pull the Rutgers player off.

I agree this isn't SPA, and here's the initial point of contact from the NCAA video:



Frankly, while UMass is certainly within their rights to try to take a quick free kick, I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish here. Not having watched the full game, I'm not sure how the referee is supposed to divine that UMass is going to try to play quick 70 yards from goal and Rutgers having plenty of covering defenders. At some point, ideally yes there'd be action to take to avoid a fight, but some players are just going to fight.

 

That’s a much more helpful angle, from the broadcast angle it looked a lot more lunging into the back of the attackers leg. Don’t hink that’s worthy of a yellow

The funny thing about the quick restart is the fouled player seems to be somewhat hurt, so she would have likely restarted while her player is lying there

 

No doubt, reading the flow of play and having them feel your presence...I can't stress that enough.