Bad stories

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Law5, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This doesn't feel right either, but we weren't there so who knows. What I'm understanding is that you weren't planning on carding anyone, but when they refused to confess you punished the coach. So the card essentially was for not confessing or turning in a teammate? If the coach had pointed to one of the players as you were ready to card him would you have just dropped all of it?
     
  2. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    no offense to you, but this mistake is indefensible.
     
  3. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Until they went turtle, I wasn’t carding anyone, but when they clammed up I made the right decision to card the coach, who then was very angry with his bench.
     
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  4. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All three major codes (IFAB, NFHS, NCAA) clearly state that if the referee has an offense in the technical area and cannot identify the specific person that the “senior team coach” (I.e. head coach in IFAB) receives the sanction.

    It’s been a while, but I had one of these. I walked over to the bench and told the head coach that I was cautioning him for dissent because the dissent was clear and I couldn’t identify the person. I said it loudly enough that the assistant who said it confessed, so I issued the card to the assistant after he got the hint.

    In the Boone case, I have to agree with @Rufusabc . If you aren’t sure if it’s a fan or from the dugout, you can’t guess. Wendelstedt should have bought time by slowly walking toward the dugout to see if he could see the fan. By ejecting Boone (who I totally agree has far too short of a fuse and creates a lot of problems for himself), all that occurs is a fan will try to bait an umpire into getting a visiting manager tossed. That’s a bad road to take.
     
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  5. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get that. I guess what I'm questioning is that no caution was going to be given. So then why give one to the coach if no one fesses up? If a caution was planned from the start, that's fine, but that's not what I read.
     
  6. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Here’s the problem though, he wasn’t “guessing” if it was a fan or the dugout. He was sure it was from the dugout. Which is understandable given the fan was sitting directly above the dugout, the location of where the umpire stands and the distance from the dugout, wearing a big mask, etc. And of course the fact that the manager had just been warned a few seconds earlier and is known to constantly blow up at umpires. So basically the only solution to this is ejecting the manager, him being adamant that he didn’t say anything, and then you retract the ejection.

    I just wonder how I would respond to it if it happened in a game I did, you give a coach who has been dissenting quite a bit during the game a yellow card, then later on you hear a dissenting shout from a fan who may be near the bench for some reason if the spectator section is very close, then you give him a second yellow and have to deal with him being adamant he said nothing. Do you believe him or not. It’s probably unlikely in our environment given benches are usually separate from spectators on field level or even when spectators are in bleachers which are usually quite separated from the field, but it does make you wonder
     
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  7. Twotone Jones

    Twotone Jones Member

    United States
    Apr 12, 2023
    This isn't a mistake. And it's not the "gotcha" moment either. The umpire literally warned Boone seconds before. And he clearly heard a comment coming from the same direction of the manager that he just warned. He didn't mistakenly hear it. It was heard loud and clear. And, this experienced umpire surely has dealt with Boone before, if not tossing from other game(s) previously. This umpire knows what he's dealing with and knows Boone has to get the last word. He's expecting it to happen. I'm clear in my distinction that this experienced umpire "knows" Boone and just "think" Boone said something. He KNOWS Boone just said something and he KNOWS Boone was just warned and he KNOWS Boone is the character that has to get the last word and he KNOWS there have only been 5 pitches thrown in this game and he KNOWS he's not gonna listen to it for another 295 more pitches.

    So he heard a fan 2 rows up and a short angle up from Boone. That's the only mistake and this umpire shouldn't believe Boone simply because Boone said "it wasn't me". Boone's been tossed from 35 other games in his managerial career. 36 ain't gonna matter to him cuz 37, 38, and 39 are coming soon.

    We've all had that coach that we've "warned" and then we turn to walk away and they've got to get the last word in. Some of us choose to ignore it. Others turn back and give the card. You didn't see the coach say it, but you KNOW the coach said it. and the coach earned it.

    Rasheed Wallace earned every technical foul he got. Sometimes it wasn't him but he created that reputation. Luka Doncic is letting his mouth get him in trouble with refs. and he's earning it. Mark Cuban has the same problem. Cristiano Ronaldo earned his reputation as a diver early in his career cuz he flopped a lot. Neymar too. Arjen Robben the same. Nigel de Jong earned his rep of being a hack cuz he crushed other players. if you don't want to get called a cheat, then don't cheat. If you don't wanna get tossed from games cuz a fan said something off the cuff, don't get warned 5 pitches into a game after getting tossed 35 other times. And if the umpire doesn't want to reputation of having rabbit ears, then don't mistake fans comments for the manager of the Yankees.
     
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  8. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Been a while since I've tossed a coach. U13G game #1 vs #2. #1 was leading 2-0. 10 minutes to go before game ends. There's a foul for #2 team 5 yards into their own half as they are attacking. I decide against the advantage and just blow for a careless foul. Coach blows up saying "What? No! We had advantage!" I went over to the coach to try to manage it saying why I decided against playing advantage (no viable options, in their own half). I take some time to explain. "That's a terrible call!" he yells loudly. Out comes the first yellow.

    "Coach, I've given you your warning and you're on a yellow. Let's try to keep it professional." I say.

    "I don't care! I have someone who can take over. This is the worst officiating I've ever seen in my life!" he yells back

    Out comes the 2nd yellow and he's gone. Players clap like he's slayed the beast "Good job, coach!" as he's leaving the pitch.

    And you wonder why referees aren't coming back.
     
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  9. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I were in your shoes, I’d have a serious discussion with the assignor. 12 year olds openly cheering their coach being sent off represents a serious issue with the coach at minimum and very possibly with the overall culture of the club. I can tell you in my mentor role that if you came to me with this issue, my next call would be to the SRA asking what the next steps are to deal with the coach and club.
     
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  10. weka

    weka Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Yeah, I was a bit taken back by that.

    However, I don't think much will change. During the changing of coaches, I had to verify who was who and who was replacing the coach. My AR2 checked in both teams. I looked for the roster and when I went over to AR2 to ask where the roster was, he said "I gave them back to the coaches."

    So I had to go back to to the winning coach and get the roster and make sure everything was in order. Then I went to the coach who was replacing the sent-off coach to verify the name.

    By this time, it was about 4-5 minutes. And after I made sure he said he was who he was, "He sighed and said 'Can we just get this game moving on?'" which pretty much sealed that he had absolutely zero care that his coach was sent off.
     
  11. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I had a “possession = advantage” complaint even from an MLS Next coach. Give his team a foul in his own half, ball even went backwards 5 yards from a fouled mid facing his own goal to a right back. Cries out that they have advantage. I tell him “coach, what advantage? You’re in your own half and the ball went backwards. Possession isn’t advantage”. He grumbles again but stops. Then at halftime, “hey ref, you were right about that advantage call, that was my bad”
     
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  12. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    I've noticed this may just what they prefer in this league, wanting their players to continue playing.
     
  13. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    He guessed wrong. Simple. Major league umpires have the largest egos of the officiating set. I know, I grew up around one.
     
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  14. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Yeah I agree, when it makes sense to do so. It was MLS next that helped me even more becoming the “wait and see” guy, when I would get shouts about “there’s no advantage there!” because I called advantage too early. But I’m not going to just not call advantages when their team is in a worse position just because the coaches might want them to play more.

    I agree, but at the same time I personally think MLB umpires get a little bit more leeway with their attitudes, considering it’s the only league on earth where AFTER getting ejected, a player or manager is allowed to then get directly in their face screaming profanities at them.
     
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  15. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    8 billion people on the planet and hundreds of thousands of soccer games played every day and you are the worst at something. That’s an accomplishment!
     
  16. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    When I was called the worst ref ever, my AR objected - he'd had that title from the same coach last week. Although, Peter probably was a little bit better of a ref than I was ...
     
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  17. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    I've never witnessed it in the real world, but the reply to "you're the worst referee ever!" that cracks me up is "What a coincidence!" I'm pretty sure I read it here.
     
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  18. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    We all have those experiences.

    Getting called a shocking disgrace to refereeing by a British coach who hates all the refs in the league (2CT’ed two of his players). Personally apologized for his behavior a few weeks later and said after they watched game film he saw his two players are idiots.

    High school admin calling the police to be there when the game ended cause they thought the players and fans were going to attack me. Then two referee players on the team told me a few weeks later that they watched the footage and saw that basically all my calls were right

    It’s a right of passage for all of us
     
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  19. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Once had a high school varsity boys game, lower level, where a player got the ball off to an unmarked teammate, 15 yards up field, while the kicker is in front of his team's bench. Opponent comes in late and gets him but not card worthy. I'm playing advantage. The kicker is yelling 'ref, where's the foul?" His coach is then loudly explaining the concept of advantage to the kid as I zip off, following play. I got the impression that the kid didn't believe his coach, either.
     
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  20. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Among my favorite moments to laugh about after the fact are when a team either gets a goal or a great shot on goal after an advantage and the fouled player is still arguing about the foul not being whistled.

    My response when a goal is scored is nearly automatic now - "Would you like me to give you the free kick and take away the goal?"

    That usually ends the discussion.
     
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  21. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    The same Peter I referenced above had two comebacks, probably never actually used.
    "You gotta get out more."
    "Oh, I can be much worse."
     
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  22. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've always liked, "Really? I thought this was one of my better games. You should have been here last week!"
     
  23. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    No reason to make sarcastic comments towards dissent, just leave it
     
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  24. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coach: Hey, ref, you are missing a really good game out there.

    Ref: I know, but unfortunately, I was assigned this one!
     
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  25. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Had a difficult coach tonight in a UPSL game. I was A1.
    Visiting team is down 4-1. They score to cut lead to 4-2. Goalkeeper grabs the ball out of the net. One of the attackers tries to take the ball from him and then starts to punch the ball. Attacker receives a caution. His coach argues that the goalkeeper should be punished because he is not supposed to grab the ball. I don’t understand his logic there.
    Later, visiting team sub decides to go down behind the goal and act as a ball boy. I instruct the coach that his player needs to return to the technical area. Coach tells me to stop worrying about his team and pay attention to the game.
    The third interaction with this coach came after a mass confrontation near his bench. All the players on the bench jumped up and ran toward the touchline. I made my way down the field to prevent players from coming into the field. Again, coach tells me to stop worrying about his team and pay attention to the game. At this point I was done. I advised the referee to give the coach a caution.
    I just don’t understand coaches who are more worried about what I’m doing and try to tell me how to do my job.
     

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