Please recombine the Business & Media. The non-soccer business thread is a bad idea. It's the "Business and Media" forum, not the "Soccer Business and Soccer Media" forum. At least that's what I thought.
Well, it was my idea, so you are contradicting your previous statement about me. But seriously, this isn't etched in stone in my mind. This came out of brainstorming to try and re-work things since "Links & Articles" kind of outlived its purpose after the World Cup, in our opinion. The forum is busy. The forum is diverse. And the forum is, in my opinion, a dumping ground for any and everything that people want to talk about. Maybe this is a way to split things up. Maybe not. Apparently Jesse thinks it's worth a try. So let's see how it works out.
Andy, as you and Andy B have pointed out, it's valuable and interesting to take a look at how other leagues run their business and compare and contrast to MLS, WUSA and the A-League. But some of the stuff honestly wanders a little far afield sometimes -- like USASoccer's WNBA threads, or someone mentioning promotion and relegation in connection with an American non-soccer league. At first, the sentiment was to simply pack anything non-soccer related off to Other Sports. But instead, what we've done is we've kept the non-soccer business threads in B&M, but given them a separate forum, keeping the main B&M forum focused on soccer-related business and media. Like monster said, nothing's etched in stone here. This isn't like making a bad player trade. If this doesn't work out, we can always combine the two again and go forward from there. But let's see how this works out, though. BTW, I think we can all agree that "Links and Articles" has outlived its usefulness until the next World Cup, though.
Then moderate heavier. I had no compunction about moving fluff/crap threads to FFA, MLS, or other fora. Threads about domestic sports league business is what the forum was all about. What lessons can soccer learn. How does soccer compare. Etc... Like it or not, the WNBA, Title IX, and XFL are germaine to the discussion of soccer sports business in the United States. I guess my main problem threads were the - I saw this article (well it was in the media). Your biggest problem seems to be the soccer basher threads. I would just move those, without links, to FFA. There have been multiple attempts to split B&M for years, and this is, in my opinion, the worst attempt of them all.
I'd like to see just one B&M forum. But if you all are set on breaking it up, why not make "Media", and not "Non-Soccer Business", the subforum within the B&M forum? Like Andy Mead, I think most people who're interested in soccer league business are interested in the business of other sports' leagues as well. So it seems natural to keep all of that discussion in one forum. Media is a rather specialized branch of the business side and has its own devoted band of followers. Folks who're very knowledgeble and/or interested in the subject like monster and kenntomasch would regularly visit a media forum no matter where it was located so that they could argue Nielsen numbers and cable vs. satellite. On the other hand, I think the number of BS members who're very interested in non-soccer business on its own is somewhat limited. I have no doubt media discussion could survive in its own forum. Threads placed in a non-soccer business forum, on the other hand, are apt to be viewed by just a few, IMHO.
I agree with AndyMead. A writer suggesting relegation for the NFL is primarily a puff piece that belongs in Other Sports. An article describing the WNBA's transition from Single Entity to a more conventional ownership structure is of immediate significance to MLS fans. And I would argue that the Links and Articles forum became irrelevant when falcon6 got a yellow card, but hey, that's just me. If any split of B+M needs to happen, I'd argue for a "Media Activism" forum to be spun off for "Write A Letter To This Guy's Editor," "Stuff The Ballot Box Of This Internet Poll," "SportsCenter Doesn't Respect Soccer" threads and their ilk.
I've said it before, but I think the split should be B&M Lite, or some similar name, and should approximate the splits of the US and MLS boards where the non-N&A forums are a little less serious. Jim Rome, Ty & Jack threads, and "Gilmore Girls just mentioned soccer!" threads could be sent there.
Sounds like it just may have been split the wrong way. Why not somthing like this? • Soccer and other sports business • Soccer in the media
There are two absolutes in BigSoccer B&M forum. 1. Everyone thinks it should be split up. 2. Nobody can figure out how to do it. Hey, I was in the trenches. I've been involved in the discussions. The signal to noise ratio is still among the highest on BigSoccer even with the repetitive crap threads.
I'm tempted to create a sockpuppet to write this post, because I've got a reputation to maintain around here, BUT Andy Mead is entirely correct here. When there was just one forum, and it was moderated appropriately, it worked a lot better than it does now. It is one of only a couple Forums which need this treatment, but in this case ruthless moderation was the key. (And also being up front about it; Andy never made any bones about how the moderation was heavy, entirely subjective and continuous. How the hell else could it have survivied the Oliver Tse wars, among other things?) Let's go back.
As one of the original moderators of the B&M board, I always welcomed diverse posting about other sports. The change is less interesting to me and as such I rarely bother to read, much less post in that board. I would combine the board back into one. Create two official threads: 1) Soccer Bashers 2) US Soccer announcers Anyone who posts that crap outside of those threads gets moved or deleted. Moving the non soccer business has done nothing but dramatically lower the signal to noise ratio of one of the few safe havens left on BS. Andy
Given Andy's history and relationship with the site and our users, we have executed his recommendation.
I said I was up to any solution so I'll see if this works. I don't see what didn't work in the last change so I'm kind of flummoxed. Outside of comments from maybe four people here, I got no feedback. And since there were almost no threads on non-soccer business anywhere in the last two weeks, I don't think there's an issue. The problem before wasnon-soccer business threads trumping soccer business threads. Given the latest change, can we sticky those threads? Otherwise, if they fall down, people will start their own threads, creating more confusion if someone doesn't get to it right away.
The Non-Soccer Business threads likely appeared to be "hidden in the back office" to many. That may have influenced traffic. Personally, I like Andy_B's idea. How other sports run the business side of their leagues indirectly is soccer related in many cases. Often useful to use what one league and/or franchise does as a benchmark for what soccer can do (promotions). Also, new sports ventures can make a market more crowded, which can be an extra hurdle for soccer to overcome. I'll stop here.
It might help to tweak the title - like Official Whine about Jim Rome, et. al. thread. Okay maybe not that exactly, but you get the idea.
I have always thought any thread or forum of that ilk was a bad idea because it just advertises for trouble. Six posts. None serious. I've binned three and am moving one more there. This is much better than the other way.
Andy, there is no perfect solution. Your reply is to mod heavier. Well, if that's the case, then a lot of good discussions which have been in there over the last 12 months would NEVER have stuck around during your time as Mod. What Brian says is right. I guess it's a little frustrating that instead of PM'ing me or Brian or TCM with suggestions that we find them in here. We've tried to reconfigure it several times (Links and Articles, Non soccer biz) in an effort to keep the amount of nonsense to a minimum ("Tyson wearing a soccer jersey"). Thanks for all the feedback.
I thought Andy's point was that he moved threads that he judged off topic to other boards. So it wasn't that these good discussions didn't happen but that they happened (or not) on another board. I don't see any reason why every discussion posted on B&M should remain on B&M. It is possible for mods to make judgments, that is to distinguish between on and off topic threads and move them to a more appropriate board. But maybe that's just me - I think the ability to make judgments about all sorts of things is the most important quality a moderator can have. And if that quality is lacking then I think it's ridiculous to believe that configuring the boards any differently is going to solve anything.
Things did get moved. And people bitched. I thought it was a good idea creating a subforum that appeared above any other thread (so it was less likely to be missed) with a place for threads I believed to clutter the forum. Others didn't. Jesse made a change. And now we have a thread basically serving as an open invitation to trolls.
Well of course they did. So the mods should explain why the threads got moved. I still fail to see why making judgments and moving threads is not an option.