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Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by O'Ghiattone, Nov 17, 2015.

  1. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    #2051 AGomes, Jun 10, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
    It was on the Juve side. Will spend a couple of Minutes to try and find it.

    EDIT:

    It was the person from the Caribbean who wrote it, NOT you. My mistake. You just added only Chiesa was world class. Don't really agree with that either, but.


     
  2. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    Gentlemen, I'll give you the link to the various results of the U17 and U19 national youth teams (which becomes U20 for the category world cup)
    notice the difference from 2018


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_national_under-17_football_team

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_national_under-19_football_team

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_national_under-20_football_team

    this is the live pre-match of Italy - Bosnia from 5.40pm there is the interview with Maurizio Viscidi, responsible for the Italian youth national teams and with Massimiliano Favo, if you understand Italian I recommend you watch it



    This is the Live commentary of Italy-Bosnia where some footballers such as Mattia Liberali and Andrea Natali are interviewed

     
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  3. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    We had lesser talent in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s when we were automatic to qualify and get deep in the World Cup and greater talent now where we've missed two WCs in succession? I'm not sure how you can possibly argue that our talent is better now.
     
  4. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    You better hope I'm right and you're wrong on that point or we have no chance in this tournament. Chiesa was the most important player in the Euro win, not because he was necessarily the most talented player, but because we have no attacking talent. He carried the side offensively, even if guys like Insigne did contribute.
     
  5. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    when we talk about young footballers we must look in perspective let's take an example Totti was born in 1976 and played in the U17 World Cup in 1993 so his formative years range from the end of the 80s to the second half of the 90s so Totti and this applies to all the 2006 World Champions, i.e. they completed their training period at the end of the 80s, first half of the 90s (with some exceptions such as De Rossi or Barzagli who were respectively born in 83 and 81 and therefore their technical training was late 90s - early 2000s).
    And here is the point, while you were looking at the national A team, you didn't realize that the talent began to decline from the Italian youth teams from 2000 to 2018, let's take the U17s of 2013 who participated in the U17 World Cup in 2013

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_UEFA_European_Under-17_Championship_squads

    This is the match they played against New Zealand (who had been destroyed in the previous match by Uruguay)



    this is the U17 who lost the Euro U18 final



    Do you notice any differences?

    now I'll put you online the video of the complete match played against South Korea of the U17 team taking part in the 2009 U17 World Cup (watch it all)



    This is this year's final of the U17 European Championship against Portugal



    Do you notice any differences?

    And these were the ones who managed to qualify, let alone the others and the level of play which is different, those from before 2018 seem like Serie D teams while those from after 2018 compared to those before seem like Brazil in 1970, the players of the period from 2010 to 2023 had their formative years ranging from 2000 to 2015 (i.e. those born from the second half of the 80s to the entire 90s) and it is only from the years of those born from 1997 onwards that the situation changes it is reversed. I hope I was more clear
     
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  6. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    I dont know what we are arguing here but our young core in Donnarumma, Barella, Locatelli, and Chiesa were key players in winning a European championship, which we last won 53 freaking years ago! Also they kept a world record of 37 unbeaten games in a row, none of the legendary teams have ever topped it!

    Im so tired of ppl downplaying us bc we missed 2 World Cups (while a lot of our key players like Chiesa were injured). It sucks but I will gladly miss those 2 World Cups if it guaranteed us getting a 2nd European championship while having a world record unbeaten streak which proves it was not "lucky" for us, but bc we were supreme talented.
     
  7. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Bologna interested in Casadei ! I hope this happens I do not trust Italians playing abroad for long.
     
  8. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    The Euro was a great achievement in its own right. No doubt about that. However, it's impossible to dismiss the failure to qualify for two straight World Cups. That was once unimaginable. That had everything to do with a complete lack of attacking quality. No attacker on this side bar maybe Chiesa would even get on the bench of most of those sides from 1980-2006.
     
  9. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yes exactly which is why the situation takes a generation to reverse. Well stated. There are several reasons for why this happened. The big reason is the influx of foreigners into Serie A the Totti generation were still playing in teams of mostly italians when debuting in the early to mid 90s as teenagers. By the 2000s this was not so. The other major reason is that footballers profiles changed rapidly and Serie A was behind the 8 ball will old fashioned coaches that did not develop modern footballers. While now Italian coaches are all the rage like it's the 80s all over again this was not the case in the 2000s. The final reason was the Calciopoli scandal this hit Italian football s hard as the Grand torino and put italian football into its first major dark period since the 1950s maybe the 70s as well but yes that is it.

    Outside a handful of players like Marchisio Balotelli Chiellini Bonnucci the mid 85-92 kids did not produce much. The generation after them offered more depth but mostly Insigne Immobile Verratti Berardi kinda. It is not until the Chiesa Tonali Barrella Donnarumma Batsoni generation that we see the talent return and now the generation just behind them are coming up quickly as well. Even a year ago half of our top young defenders were not on the radar. Now from 19-27 we have host of talents. The bleeding stopped.
     
  10. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    The thing is we were in a dark period in the 2010s despite this we still got to a Euro final and had a good run in 2016 and yes we could not score in the world cup playoffs but the two missed world cups are really the result of a perfect storm. First I will say this there is no world where Conte does not qualify for the world cup. I don't care what talent we had we had enough to take beat belgium spain and take germany to pks there is no excuse. Getting Spain in our group and appointing Ventura was a recipe for disaster. He basically conceded that we would have to go to the playoff and when in the playoff Sweden score a lucky goal and Ventura makes the strangest choices for the next 140 minutes of football.

    2022 we are coming off winning the euros and breaking the consecutive win streak. We we started qualifying great but because of 2020 being played in 2021 we go into qualifying both drained but also in the typical Italian post winning malaise that we always go into after winning a tournament. On top of this Mancini is being stubborn with his selections always playing the same guys that are exhausted and not going to score while continuously selecting Jorginho for penalties which he misses because he is burnt out. Yes we lacked a striker but that's not why we missed two world cups. What's done is done but those of us that watched know how bizarre those two scenarios were.

    Yes we were short on talent but again 2016 and especially 2021 show this was not an excuse for how these scenarios were managed. even in 2018 we were good in qualifying we won 7 drew 2 and lost 1 with 21 goals for and 8 against. Look at 1998 we nearly missed the world cup and barely beat Russia to squeeze in with a lot of talent. Maybe 2018 was our russian karma for that.
     
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  11. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    At the Toulon tournament, Italy finish with 8 points and 2nd place. They automatically play France for 3rd place. I’ve only seen highlights from these games, but it looks like Volpato was good

     
  12. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    In reality the team is not performing well, either because they are at the end of the season and physically they are not in optimal conditions, or because the team is very experimental (practically Nunziata said that they did a training session before taking the plane) many players are performing below their capabilities
     
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  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I want to know just how many of these Under 17's are going to be given a chance to play?

     
  14. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    We'll see, after all it's not like the situation is very different in the other U17 national teams, in any case in this one there are quality elements in the team and I am moderately optimistic (I posted two matches in the previous topic Italy-South Korea U17 World Cup in 2009 and this year's U17 Euro Final, make a comparison of the game and let me know what you think)
     
  15. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Who was on the 2009 team?
     
  16. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    We should have beaten Panama. No excuses there. Raimondo ate how many goals?
     
  17. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    #2067 lt22677, Jun 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_FIFA_U-17_World_Cup_squads

    No. Pos. Player Date of birth (age) Caps Club
    1 GK Mattia Perin 10 November 1992 (aged 16) Genoa
    2 DF Felice Natalino 24 March 1992 (aged 17) Inter Milan
    3 DF Federico Mannini 18 April 1992 (aged 17) Siena
    4 DF Vincenzo Camilleri 6 March 1992 (aged 17) Reggina
    5 DF Simone Sini (c) 9 April 1992 (aged 17) Roma
    6 MF Lorenzo Crisetig 20 January 1993 (aged 16) Inter Milan
    7 MF Alessandro Scialpi 23 February 1992 (aged 17) 6 Lecce (on loan to Genoa)
    8 MF Alessandro De Vitis 15 February 1992 (aged 17) Parma
    9 FW Giacomo Beretta 14 March 1992 (aged 17) Milan
    10 MF Stephan El Shaarawy 27 October 1992 (aged 16) Genoa
    11 FW Simone Dell'Agnello 22 April 1992 (aged 17) Inter Milan
    12 GK Francesco Bardi 18 January 1992 (aged 17) Livorno
    13 DF Simone Benedetti 3 April 1992 (aged 17) Torino
    14 DF Andrea Bagnai 2 April 1992 (aged 17) 8 Fiorentina
    15 DF Michele Camporese 19 May 1992 (aged 17) Fiorentina
    16 MF Leonardo Bianchi 28 January 1992 (aged 17) 10 Empoli
    17 FW Alberto Libertazzi 1 January 1992 (aged 17) Juventus
    18 FW Pietro Iemmello 6 March 1992 (aged 17) Fiorentina
    19 MF Marco Fossati 5 October 1992 (aged 17) Inter Milan
    20 MF Federico Carraro 23 June 1992 (aged 17) Fiorentina
    21 GK Giacomo Venturi 2 January 1992 (aged 17) Bologna

    The only decent ones were the two goalkeepers(Perin and Bardi), El Shaarawy and Carraro (who later had a terrible career) in attack we all had very poor attackers (the only decent one was Iemmello)
     
  18. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    Well, consider that Pamana won last year , I'd say we didn't do badly ;), jokes aside, the team is in terrible physical condition and many are at their first international experience (and many didn't even know each other before getting on the plane)
     
  19. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
  20. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Medaglia di bronzo. Mi ero completamente dimenticato di questa partita. Ma è un bel risultato, considerando che non sapevamo cosa aspettarci.
     
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  21. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    That was a great blow-by and assist from Volpato. Is he regularly a standout for the youth national teams?
     
  22. nunzio23

    nunzio23 Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Jul 16, 2021
    Volpato has only been on the scene the last two years or so and has had flashes but not consistently. He did have some run with the U20's and scored a key goal in the Elite league against Portugal.

    I think he's totally owned by Sassuolo and hope he consistently gets minutes with them in B next year. Seems like that should happen with Berardi probably out until 2025 and probably sold as well. I'd like the see Volpato make the Italy squad someday as he has already turned down the World Cup with Australia
     
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  23. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    finchè Volpato è elegibile per l'U21 italiana, gli australiani se lo possono sognare, dopo si vedrà se riuscirà ad entrare nel giro della nazionale, ma fino ad allora starà nella nostro giro (questo vale anche per Koleosho che dato che è nato nel 2004 vale anche per il prossimo bienno dell'U21)

    as long as Volpato is eligible for the Italian U21, the Australians can dream of him, then we'll see if he manages to get into the national team, but until then he will stay in our team (this also applies to Koleosho who, given that he was born in 2004 also applies to the next two-year period of the U21s)
     
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  24. lt22677

    lt22677 Member

    Napoli
    Italy
    Jul 10, 2022
    Volpato ha anche giocato nel campionato Europeo U19 del 2022 dove segno anche 2 reti

    Volpato also played in the 2022 U19 European Championship where he also scored 2 goals
     
  25. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    We lack quality striker and winger depth in the senior team, so my hope is Camarda and Liberali will be given chances to shine for AC Milan in the next year or so.
     
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