away fans

Yeah. So they don't kill each other.

 

It's a fairly standard practice all across Europe to segregate fans.

You mean that isn't the case in the US??

 

Soccer fans and crowds are decidedly different in UK and most of Europe than in the US (and presumably Canada) (and from what I've seen in Finland)

Home fans in most European countries (Turkey, Italy, Spain, Germany, UK, especially) are well-known for being potentially belligerent, nasty, and down-right violent if given the chance - Not all - Not most - But enough to make the atmosphere at European games very different than at MLS games in the US

MLS games in the US are marketed to many different audiences - The biggest differences between the US and Europe would be the heavy marketing to kids leagues and families - Not 16-17 yr old kids - But 6-7 yr old kids - Beer sales are there at stadiums but are typically stopped at 65-70 minute mark - Rowdy behavior, obscene chants, etc are not tolerated - DCU fans complain a lot about the overbearing security at RFK - But there was a small but potentially bad incident between a few DCU fans and some from NY Metros - And I remember the good old days of watching coke bottles fly back and forth between The Screaming Eagles/Barra Brava section and Mexican fans at the final of a CONCACAF Cup in RFK - And I don't miss them

Marketing for kids is esp evident at HalfTime where often teams of 6-7 yr olds play half-field games - Or you have little stunts or contests with kids - A European exchange student with us told me you'd never see anything like that at a big game in Germany and seemed to think it was silly - But he didn't miss the fights and belligerence between fans either

 

Not quite sure how it works in the Premiership but most games in 'League 2' are pay-on-the-gate. So if we're going to an away game we'll just turn up at the ground and enter through the away end - which is always marked by a sign, or to which you will be directed by stewards.

There's nothing to actually stop us going in the home end, and that used to be a regular occurrence in the bad old days of terrace trouble, but all-seater grounds have put a stop to that kind of thing, by and large.

I guess that in the Prem most tickets are sold in advance - away fans will buy them through their own club. Again, there's nothing to stop a fan buying a ticket for the 'wrong' end (although I think some clubs check postcodes etc) but since tickets are allocated with numbered seats, it (a) makes it much harder to indulge in crowd trouble as most of the fans will be dispersed round the ground and (b) makes it much easier for troublemakers to be identified and removed/banned.

 

comme beat me to it.......

 

At the League Cup match Leeds - Man U last season there was a Man U fan found out in the Leeds section.

He was attacked by many people. I'm sure at least 10 got punches in on him.

That's why they have their own section, with some of their own stewards.

 

Yep, that's always the way. It's actually a lot more convenient as well.

i think going in the wrong end is a criminal offence, although it's very rare to hear of anyone being prosecuted for it.


For a large number of league games, fans probably could be unsegregated without any problems at all, but most fans prefer segregation. It makes for a better atmosphere for one thing.

 

Well, there aren't typically many away fans at American sporting events.

Also have you ever been to a high school American Football game, where typically there is a much higher proportion of away fans? Every one I've been to has had segregation between home and away supporters. And for good reason too; violent incidents are all too common amongst both students and parents. I think this also occurs at college football games?

Eaxctly. There isn't the same culture of masses of travelling fans as there is in Europe - mainly because of cost, I presume.

 

i take it that in america you don't have hooligan problems then? in britain and accross alot of europe many clubs have a group of fans whose main purpose in following a team is to start trouble with the other clubs fans. this becomes more prominent between clubs that traditionally have strong rivalries for instance chelsea-millwall. i must point out though that the 'firms' of fans looking for trouble with each other do tend to have their own set of unwritten rules (honour amongst thieves i suppose) and they usually extend to only causing trouble with each other and not with your general fan base.

i suppose with america being as huge as it is, and often there not being more than a couple of national league teams in a whole state, you don't have the same 'local rivalries'.

 

and I feel I must point out that any credence to any such 'code of honour' is a pile of crap and the overwhelming majority of attacks take place on people who are outnumbered and happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and almost always against people who are easily identified as being opposition fans - i.e. wearing colours. Such attacks are still very vary rare though. I've never seen a serious incident of fans fighting each other in nearly 20 years of going to matches. All you hear about are the odd sporadic attacks on isolated fans walking back to the station etc and being attacked by a group of 'brave lads' rushing out of a pub, or maybe people getting hit by objects thrown by brave lads 30 yards away behind a fence and a row of policemen.

 

very few normal everyday fans get caught up in serious football violence merely by wearing the wrong teams colours. in fact hooligans activly avoid 'scarfers' as they are known (because they wear their teams colours and 'scarfs') as they will have no intrest in having a fight. i don't think there is any excuse for attacking some innocent fan based purely on who they support, however unlike you suggested, this is a very rare occurance and makes up only a tiny percentage of all football related violence.

reference this not being allowed to happen in canada, it is hardly considered legal in england. however it is very difficult to arrest someone before they have done anything wrong, so it is entirely possible for groups of lads to congregate for the football and avoid arrest whilst they organise with the opposition firm where to have a bit of bother. most fans convicted of football related violence get prison sentences these days, along with 5 year bans from the statium and having to hand their passports in when england play away matches. it is considered to be a very serious offence by the authorities.

 

I say crap. Burberry-clad idiots will gesticulate to each other in the ground, but outside they look for easy targets to take out their anger on. For all their bravado, there's incredibly little bravery on the part of hooligans. Sure, if there's two group of fans who want a fight they'll fight each other, but I've seen more than enough groups of 'hard lads' having a go at heavily outnumbered fans.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but anyone who uses the word "scarfer" is usually a sad hooligan wannabe. There is nothing sadder than those who romanticise football hooligans into being some honourable counter-culture, when in reality they are just obnoxious twats who get their kicks from beating people up. The 'code of honour' is a total 100% myth. As much as they love to invent stories of how they went toe-to-toe with another town's 50-handed firm in their home boozer, the reality is usually they got gobby in a pub and piled in on the first couple of guys who complained.

A fair comparison would be that scene in Trainspotting where Begbie is telling everyone about how he beat up some hard guy who challenged him to a fight, when the reality was that he laid into some innocent guy who was at the bar eating a packet of crisps.

Really, if you have bookshelves full of dougie brimson and his peers, just open your eyes and realise what a pile of crap they are. Those books are written to sell, and ficticious tales off 'offs' between rival gangs are more likely to entice 14 year old schoolboys to spend their pocket-money on them than any truthful, and generally mundane, accounts ever would.

 

i agree almost entirely with you. firstly you are right about books written by hooligans on the subject. they are generally very poorly written accounts of inncidents that certainly wouldn't let the truth get in the way of a good story. however i still beg to differ about normal fans recieving most of the beatings. it is true that as a rule these so called 'organised' liasons between rival firms are probably nothing more than urban myths, whilst the boys actually prefer to hide behind their police escorts making 'come on' signs to each other.

but having chatted to some older lads about the culture and how/why its so important too them, you do recieve an intresting insight into the matter. i wouldn't say i condone their behavior, especially since so many of them seem to be far right wing nazi thugs. but this isnt to say that the culture behind it doesnt fascinate me, and its also intresting to see what the american perspective is on the matter.

the point about picking on those whom they outnumber is, i suppose, partially true. however, if you are with a small group of mates it is still easy enough to avoid trouble if you're not looking for it. by going to the football clad head to toe in top designers most gaudy lines you are looking for trouble, and if you come accross a mob of the opposition then thats your look out. also how many people have ever been killed or even permanently injured from football violence? i would suggest that whilst perhaps somewhat over excited at the prospect of kicking someone in, people generally know when not to go too far. feel free to correct me if i am incorrect with my assumption about football violence related death.

also dont think for a second that my bookcase contains nothing but books on the 6.57 and soul crew. theres a good lot of grisham and clancy in there as well (wink wink)

 

I get my away tickets through Liverpool. The thing is you basically need a home season ticket to get an away ticket. First it is prioritised according to who went to most away games last year (info stored for a particular season ticket number), then the tickets go on sale to the remaining season ticket holders. Then they go on general sale (very, very raraely happens - the allocation of what is usually around 3,000 usually gets snapped up by the season ticket holders)

 

Well said - another Reading fan talking sense.

Actually, this whole "romanticising of hooliganism" is something that p*sses me off no end, especially as being Russian, I come into contact with Russian fans and, f8ck me backwards, too many of them bow down before "the English football supporters' culture" - all this Brimson **********e and stuff - and it takes a hell of a f8cking effort to try and convince them that these nobheads are not what football is about.

 

This myth about normal fans being attacked has to be put to rest, yes it may have happened but is a very rare occurence. The fighting usually takes place between like minded people of rival clubs, who seek each other out or arrange things. This myth about normal fans being attacked is usually either the media brewing up a storm or people who believe everthing they read.
I would like to point out i am not condoning what goes on, but it needs to be pointed out that innocent normal supporters are on the whole left alone. I to despise what goes on, most think theyr'e "abit handy" when in a big group, but get them on their own, they wouldn't say boo to a goose. I used to enjoy wearing Stone Island gear,as it was well made clothing, but now i wouldn't be seen dead in it, don't want people looking at me as some hooligan type or a wannabee!

 

sorry, but you are talking from between your butt-cheeks. Fighting is more likely to take place between burberry clad morons because they are looking for each other, but when things turn nasty thugs will lash out at anyone they see. Most of these twats can barely arrange their own shirt-buttons, let alone organise a secret meeting with other 'firms'.

I've been going to football for nearly 20 years. I've been to about 100 grounds in England and watched football in 16 countries - I know what I've seen with my own eyes and I've seen enough fans in colours tending their fresh cuts to know what you are saying is rubbish - and it's clear that these fans are not hooligan types and they are always guys in their ones and two - never groups.

 

i admit i havnt been going to football for as long as you, however in the several years i have been attending football matches regularly i have actually seen very little trouble at all, let alone violence caused by football 'firms'. i am genuinely concerned at the fact that you have seen proper fans injured, but from my own expreience this is very few and far between. your point about hooligans being too dim to do up their own shirt buttons is rubbish though. i feel that unfortunatly alot of them are very impresionable young men who are suckers for peer presure. there are a select few individuals at each club who are capable of persuading their followers to do and behave as they say.

we seem to be forgeting that football isn't the 'family' sport alot of people wish it was. it has never been that way.it has for a long part of the last century been aimed predominently at working class men and it is only recently that the fa have realised that there is money to be made out of aiming football at the middle classes, and at the 'new man'. just because you would like football to be lovely and wholesome and full of ambasadors and people to look up too doesnt mean that it is.