Actually I was pleasantly surprised when I went to the Barnet game. To have players like Bergkamp, Van Persie, Reyes, Lauren, Parlour and Pennant put on a show and seeing a few youngsters like Senderos and Fabregas who have a real chance of making an impression on the first team squad play was well worth the money. The fact that these players have more or less all featured in all the games bodes well for the team hitting the ground running when the season starts in earnest. I suppose for someone like me who's lucky enough to watch the team week in week out, it's as interesting to see those on the fringe of the first team as to see the big name players themselves. I hope all the Euro 2004 players get a good run out this weekend, injuries permitting.
Unless you're manure's first team as SAF has only played reserves along with Keane, T-Ho and Smith so far. I don't get to see the team all the time, but I would be interested in seeing the youngsters and fringe players if they came to the US as I'm sure some Manu fans were (but not expecting it due to ChampionsWorld's advertising of their best players). But I wouldn't pay $65 a ticket to watch them (let alone travelling to a city where they're playing).
Wait, did I miss something? He's throwing out the Neville brothers as a sign he's putting out a quality side?
AW knows best since he's looking at things from a footballing perspective. What's best for the team and players is to go to Austria where there are few distractions and players can focus on executing what the manager directs. HWR, from a business point of view I disagree with some posters above who claim there isn't a big enough market in the states for Arsenal thus they shouldn't come. That's partly the point in coming - -to create the market and expand it. HWR, you'd be surprised how many people here in the states know about Arsenal and rate them. IF arsenal were to come on tour and sell merchandise, I'd bet they'd sell out most of the gear by tours end. While its relatively easy to get man u and even liverpool stuff here if you look hard enough, arsenal stuff is hard to come by. I met a puerto rican bloke in pennsylvania the other day and he was wearing a manu baseball cap. I happened to be wearing my arsenal cap and he went bonkers in spanish - -he wanted to know how he could get an arsenal cap! There is money to be made here for arsenal, but as someone posted before, it is difficult to participate without killing the team. Too many international tournaments gives little break before the season starts. Perhaps with carefull planinng it could work. LAst year man u took each game seriously and played strong sides. I watched them destroy Juve at Giants stadium in Nj and left feeling like I got my money's worth (ofcourse I wore by Arsenal shirt!). Were they too tired for the EPL season afterwards? I have yet to hear them complain about it. HWR, this year they had to water things down b/c of the euros - -that's understandable but unfortunate for american fans. In short, a tour of the US could work for Arsenal if planned right and not following a major international tournament, and NOT without the blessing of Le Boss! b/c he definately knows what's best for the team football-wise.
I am the last person here to say anything bad about American support for Arsenal, but as was recently proved by the unofficial/official ArsenalAmerica argument recently there is a big difference between supporting from a computer and a T.V. and taking an interest in the running of the supporters club. I am not saying that not going to matches makes you any less of a supporter, far from it. It's just that I don't see enough people who would activley get on a plane and travel to the next city for a match. America is so big and all of the Arsenal fans are so spread out. I mean really, in Gingers in Chicago Detlef said that there are about 20 fans for every match. Now say there could be 100 people for every one of those who would go to the matche's, it would still be only 2000. Arsenal are just not a big enough marketing tool yet. Im sorry but we are no where near Man U 's size. Even in Europe we are not that big. For the Austria pre-season games there are about 25-30 English, the Austrian supporters club (6 friends and family of a mad gooner called Paul), and a few tourists that may be in the region. The flight only cost me £55!! Arsenal are not a big club and going to America, as nice as a trip there to see the games would be, would not do the club's image or the team any good. Do you really think Ferguson wants to play any of his stars? No. Why is he doing it? Because there is so much pressure and bad press over the tour and him playing youngsters and reserves. Do you really think Man U will come back, I doubt it. Wenger doesn't need that pressure and I for one certainly don't want the first team playing in a load of meaningless friendlies just to further our marketing potential. The fans at Highbury enjoy speaking to Americans who come over (and any other nationality), it's always interesting to find out how they came to support us, but it would not benefit the club in any way to travel such a long distance, certainly whilst we have the amount of games we do in the league.
In Nevada Smiths in NYC, a manc bar, when Arsenal play Man U the crowd is pretty much even - -but that doesn't mean that Man U can't fill up half Giant's stadium, they did. Pub attendance is not a good indicator of game attendance. What seems to happen here is that people are starving to see the players from the EPL, la Liga, and Serie A. We know they are just friendly matches, but to see the stars kick a ball is all they're paying for. The draw of these european leagues is immense here. Among the people who have relocated to the states from Europe, Africa, South America and Asia are large numbers of people who follow every tidbit of info re these leagues. They know and admire Owen, Henry, RVN etc. And for most of us, it's only a dream that we might actually see them play live. I saw Zidane play here two years ago! The same goes for the throngs of people born in the US who play or otherwise support soccer here in the states, they want to see some of the world's best players kick a ball live. Now, I'll go on a limb here and say that IF Arsenal come over in the next year or so AND they bring Henry and Reyes all games in major cities (i.e. NY, LA, Chicago, etc) will sell out! People who don't even like Arsenal are in awe of Henry and would pay to see him live. As for Reyes, the latino communites here that follow La Liga know about him and follow his progress. Plus, if there's lets say a spanish side playing an italian or english side, many of the people who come to watch come to see the club from their country win - -even if they don't normally support THAT particular team in their domestic league. Things can be quite different here at times! Don't get me wrong, not all of the Championsworld games have been a success. Iwas at the Juventus v. Barcelona match last year in Boston and it was poorly attended. BUT, I got to see Ronaldhino's debut! Wasn't that good actually, but I was there! ) We may think that we are not known outside england but being a consistent winner/runner up in the EPL is a much stronger marketing vehicle than you'd think. Sure we're not as big as man u, but we're big enough to make some money touring the US. HWR, so long as AW doesn't think it's worth it Arsenal will stay away from the US.
Just as an indicator of our lack of notoriety, the Pittsburgh paper has been running articles all week leading up to the Chelsea/AS Roma friendly at Heinz Field tonight. Most of the articles have been about Chelsea and have included lines like "they are ready to surpass league juggernaut Manchester United". Evidently, the author failed to realize that Chelsea finished ahead of Man U last year. But what's more disturbing is that, out of the four or five articles, Arsenal wasn't mentioned once as being league champion. Moreover, while I realize that pub attendance isn't a major indication of popularity, let me just mention that, in the pub I used to watch matches in when I was living in Pittsburgh, Man U was the dominant side by far. Granted, most of them wouldn't know Eric Cantona from Erik Estrada, but the few Gooners who were there for the "Handbags at 20 Paces" match last season, including myself, were outnumbered by at least 15-1. It also should be noted that, there at least, Newcastle and Liverpool seem to be the two most popular sides after Man U. While I understand that Pittsburgh might not be the best indicator for something like this, I think it's important to understand how things breakdown in the smaller cities as well, where the number of ex-pats is lower, as is the number of hardcore fans.
Fair enuff. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I for one don't consider one uninformed newspaper article an indication of anything except perhaps the fact that the journalist probably doesn't normally cover football. We know how I feel about pub attendance as an indicator. Again, there's no doubt man u has much wider name recognition - - for me the real question was whether we have enuff to make money on a US tour. I think the answer is yes. and others say no. In the end, I suppose we'll never find out how we'd do in America anyway seen as though AW is against the idea.
Not meaning to demean your support of the club, but this isn't the kind of support a football club wants. People paying for one off matches just to see he stars? How is that going to help the club in the long term unless they come over every year? Say they played 3 matches and the stadiums were full. How much would they honestly earn from the whole thing? Costs of the trip would outweigh the financial income. Football clubs want support to be 'blind loyalty'. That is the only way they will make their money, Can you honestly say that there will be this amount of American Gooners in 5 years time if we've lost Wenger, Henry, Vieira and are struggling in midtable? Because it was less than 10 years ago that we feared relegation and Spurs were finishing above us. Again, that is not going to have long term support for the club. The majority of people would be coming for a cheap and easy way to see the stars of football, which is what this Champions World is all about. Yet in reality none of the clubs want their stars to play because they need rest. Making the small amount of money that we may do (and I don't agree that we would, as we would be one of the smaller clubs out there), is not needed by Arsenal. We have never wanted to play big clubs in pre-season friendlies, thats not what it is about. The club has always played small sides from obscure places like Maribor last week and Sturm Graz this week. Our fan base is not even in the top 5 in the UK let alone outside of it. And many peopl;e who have started supporting Arsenal recently are fairweather fans, like the Man U fans of the mid-nineties. People who flit from one club to the next. Sorry but ive seen it happen so much, so know that if we didn't win anything for a couple of seasons and a couple of the 'stars' went, then a fair few fans would go with them.
You're not demeaning MY support of the club. I support Arsenal because I support Arsenal. I went to see Man U and Juventus and Barcelona etc because I want to see top flight players live. That's a big part of the draw of the championsworld series. As for how much we'd make, you seem to be focused exclusively on immediate and short term sales. Don't think for a minute that Man U built their brand overnight. It came thru success on the pitch AND venturing beyond the marketing historically done by football clubs and pursuing it longterm. As for the 'blind loyalty' bit, sure that's what clubs want, but I reckon even man u knows that without success on the pitch the waves of support will dwindle taking sales of gear with it. There was a time when Arsenal were not known outside of London. They fixed that by winning AND by playing outside of London. A simple example I know, but it illustrates the point. Even if we played in the US at an initial financial loss (which I don't see happening), the seeds of support would have been sewn and begin to grow assuming continued success on the pitch. Every club has a batch of blind followers, but that's not where the growth in merchandise sales is going to come from. Sad to say but its the fair weather fans that buy things en mass when the team is successful. Why not be positioned to take advantage of it? Are we too bitter that they're not blind followers to take their money? Again, the games I've been to in the series all featured the stars playing if even for only one half. As for long term support - -how do you know that? Seriously, don't assume that a tee shirt sale at a game in which the spectator was impressed by a player or two can't lead to a person becoming a fan of the club. Even if he never sees another game live - -if he buys a new kit each time they come out that's one more kit than we used to sell and it increases income for the club. The fact is, this is a fertile market and the clubs who know something about marketing are doing their best to get a slice of the cake. Branding takes an investment but the longterm goals are worth it. Rome was not built in a day. fairweather fans -- that's true with any successful side. We would be no different. Back when Jordan ruled basketball the NBA and Chicago sold Bulls jerseys all over the world at record breaking numbers. That went on for almost a decade. Now, the only people buying current bulls jerseys are the blind followers. The important thing is that the NBA was smart enough to capitalize on Jordans popularity when he was the hottest ticket around. I'd bet that his retro jersey is currently outselling the Bulls current jersey because of it. Fairweather fans are a fact of sporting life. Still though, does that mean we should ignore the potential income that can be derived from fairweather fans? absolutely not. The champiosnworld series may serve a number of purposes but I doubt that the clubs involved expect to create an army of blind followers. Ofcourse they'd love it if it happened, but they're more likely trying to capitalize on whatever popularity they currently have AND they're trying to sew seeds of support for the future in an attempt to develop their brand in an untapped market. We can do the same. On a related point, listening to Wenger, I don't think we should join the tour unless he thinks it can fit into his way of preparing the team for the upcoming season. that's strictly from a footballing perspective. HWR, from a business point of view, I see that there is an oportunity for increasing club income both short term and longterm by joining the tour in the near future assuming continued success on the pitch. we are beating this subject to death!
Actually, I think that's the purpose of these tours. The blind followers, in the short term, tend to buy more stuff and be the ones who try and recruit everyone else. Granted, they burn out faster too, but it's a quick and easy way for the club to get cash from these fairweather fans. After the first Man U tour in the States, suddenly everyone and their brother was a "Red Devil for Life" as one put it to me, and they had the RVN shirt to prove it. Just don't ask them anything about the club's history, potential prospects, or tactics. Then they just get a blank look on their face. As for the long term prospects, I think it's next to impossible to develop that in the U.S., just because there are so many sports here already that are much more accessible to the average sports fan. You don't need a dish or digital cable to watch the NFL, NBA, NHL or baseball, but you really do need that to watch international soccer/football (sorry, I still go back and forth on what to call it). If nothing else, Americans go with what the easiest thing is for them to follow so, while the short term prospects are fine, I think you lose more than you gain in the long term. Believe me, most fans are unwilling to get up at 7 am on a Saturday and drive 45 minutes to a pub to watch their club every weekend (like I did for awhile). It takes a lot of effort to follow EPL sides in the States (and in Taiwan, for that matter), and most people aren't willing to do that. Granted, the internet has improved things a lot, but, until games are broadcast free online (yeah, I know that won't happen), we may as well just be satisfied with the knowledge that we're the rare breed that does care enough to follow a club thousands of miles away.
Two things 1- this is bob hobbs' new home identity. For some reason my other id cdngunnerbob won't work from my home machine, ok from work but not at home 2- went to 'pool-porto last night. pre-pre-season footy. 40,000 people who would pay for an over priced kit shirt anyway. it's better to stay within 2-3 hrs of home. train at altitude, play the future, not try to sell shirts to those who's families have supported the sides for generations Of course it might be different in the great melting pot to the south, where any identity but "amuricun" is discouraged and nowadays suspected
For what it's worth, I just saw this on the BBC 606 message board: "Arsenal Support Abroad Dublin Gooner - 101st post - 31 Jul 2004 21:30 Hello fellow fans. I live in Dublin (Ireland, not Ohio) and thought I'd mention the number of kids here now walking around in Arsenal shirts. I've seen several with the new shirt in the past few days. About 6 months agao there was a poll among my sons classmates and there were more Arsenal fans than anyone else - something like 15 out of 28 kids who followed a team were Gooners. I truly thing that Arsenal are developing a massive international following."
Apparently there was another entire thread on the 606 board similar to this one. Here's a copy: Two points about Arsenal Chicago Gooner - 590th post - 31 Jul 2004 19:24 1.We should also try to raise our profile in Asia / US. Man U and Real make millions by their brand name and we should also do the same. 2.We should launch Arsenal TV. Again profile and ofcourse revenue. This will perhaps along with the opening of our new stadium. [Complain about this post] re: Two points about Arsenal Malachi Lockhart - 1398th post - 31 Jul 2004 19:32 Football club first Brand second. By winning on the pitch we appease our fans and increase our profile. There no point having a powerful brand of losers. [Complain about this post] re: Two points about Arsenal Chicago Gooner - 594th post - 31 Jul 2004 19:39 Agreed. But raising our profile gives us more revenues which will help our footballing power also. Furthermore, we dont have to sacrifice football for improving our brand. Infact, right now is perfect time as we are playing a fantastic style of football and quite successfully too. [Complain about this post] re: Two points about Arsenal Malachi Lockhart - 1393rd post - 31 Jul 2004 19:55 Fair enough but i think a prudent marketing program and a focus on team building is what arsenal need for domination. Rateher than an excessive one. [Complain about this post] re: Two points about Arsenal Andrew Taylor (whu80) - 1051st post - 31 Jul 2004 19:50 They need to work in tandem, exploit merchandise while the club is peaking or winning silverware. A successful club is about working at both the financial and playing aspects together. Unless people have travelled, the marketing regime seems untangible. It is easy to see Man Utd's support from TV occaisionally. Some way for Liverpool as well in Asia especially. I was in Columbia for a month last year and it was all Arsenal, very surprising indeed! [Complain about this post] re: Two points about Arsenal Chicago Gooner - 597th post - 31 Jul 2004 19:52 True about Colombia. I believe the same thin in Argentine. However, the big bucks are in Asia and the US (apart from Europe ofcourse). And you are right. We should capitalize on our success and style right now. [Complain about this post] re: Two points about Arsenal Hawaii Five-O - 25th post - 31 Jul 2004 21:17 Arsenal will never make it in the U.S., especially with their large French contingent (not the Americans favourites I'm afraid!) [Complain about this post] As you can see, opinions are as divided on their thread as they are on this thread! HWR, now we have people saying Dublin, Columbia, and Argentina are places where Arsenal is known and supported. In addition, I was at the Man U practice in NJ yesterday (out of curiosity of course) and saw a few Arsenal shirts worn there too! Also at todays game between Man U and Milan (74,000 attendees) I saw at least 20 Arsenal shirts in the 40 minutes that I was there, including the brand new kit! Take from that what you will, but I stand by the points I raised earlier in this thread.
Arsenal TV being launched Well, it may not be a US tour, but it is a big step in the right direction in terms of the club looking to cash in on its success and also try to grow overseas support: Gunners launch global vision with Arsenal TV Denis Campbell Sunday August 1, 2004 The Observer Arsenal set to cash in on the Premiership's booming worldwide popularity by launching their own overseas television service. Fifteen countries in Asia and the Middle East have already signed deals to carry a three-hour weekly show of club news, action and interviews when the season starts in a fortnight. The programme, called Arsenal TV, will be produced in London and distributed by broadcaster TWI, which already transmits live Premier League games to 160 countries. Fans will either subscribe to Arsenal TV specifically or receive it as part of their existing pay-TV package. Arsenal's array of stars such as Thierry Henry and Robert Pires has won them followers in China, Japan, Africa, Europe and Scandinavia. The club is following the lead set by rivals Manchester United and Chelsea. Their channels are already seen in 25-30 countries and help build fanbases there. The venture has been arranged through Granada Media, which has struck a similar deal for a show called Liverpool TV for the Merseyside club. Granada owns 9.9 per cent of both clubs and acts as their media agent. Scottish giants Celtic and Rangers are also launching TV channels. An Arsenal source said: 'This is another step in Arsenal reaching out to a new market through a marketing plan based around our success on the pitch and move to a new stadium. This is aimed at an international audience which is an untapped market for us, and it makes commercial sense.' TWI is paying Arsenal an undisclosed fee for the right to make and transmit the show but is confident that the growth in interest in top English clubs abroad means it will be profitable.