Attendance Question for Americans

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Tricky Tree, Apr 25, 2004.

  1. Tricky Tree

    Tricky Tree New Member

    Jul 27, 2001
    Diego's boots
    In America, why are sport seasons' opening days so well attended compared to the rest of the season? We simply don't get that phenomenon in Europe. I never cease to be amazed at how e.g. this year, the Metrostars drew 30,000 for their first match and 8,000 for their second.
     
  2. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    Your assumption that this is the case in other US sports is inconsistant with reality.
     
  3. jri

    jri Red Card

    Sep 28, 2000
    boca
    Major League Baseball has a similar phenonema..

    Freddy jacked the attendence 7-10k first game...probably 'stole' some from second game...

    Soccer is your #1 sport, soccer is no. 4, 5 or 6 here.....the marketers of individual soccer matches have to be at it EVERY GAME or you will get individual flops...I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of stuff was geared towards Freddy and hoping it carries over..

    MLS is stupid (as usual) to play game during the day....it just doesn't work (attendence-wise) for various reasons..that probably had some effect..

    Weather was bad...
     
  4. Shaydee

    Shaydee Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never really understood this either. But as for the Metrostars they drew 30,000 the first match partly because Freddy Adu was playing. They probably would have had 20k-24k if he wasn't playing. And as for the 8,000 that was mainly because the weather was horrible today.
     
  5. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    8,000 people!!!! Move the MetroStars!!!! :D :D
     
  6. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    It's a completely different sporting landscape over here. To fully explain the situation would take too much time, and I'm tired. It't not necessarily a bad thing for opening days to grab large attendance and then there is a dropoff after that. The biggest issue is lessening the dropoff. MLS has seen mediocre attendance figures this season so far, but the biggest business is drawn in the summer anyway. a 17k average for the league is very attainable this season, I'll be doing my part in Chicago, that's for sure.
     
  7. dcufan1984

    dcufan1984 Member

    Feb 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    it was really cold and wet and windy today in new york. unlike england, their are other sports teams in town that draws tens of thousands. some of them even play inside. nhl and nba playoffs are currently in full swing. as well as baseball.

    just a combination of bad luck really. however, i expect the metros to average well above 15k this year.
     
  8. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Because Americans are influenced by hype. Front offices make opening day the place to be. I remember when they opened new comiskey park in 1990 in chicago and you couldn't get a ticket for the opener but the second game was 2/3 empty.Also before each team plays their first game every fan of every team thinks it can win it all. There are people who have to be at a hyped game like an opener then don't go again.
     
  9. FireTrucker

    FireTrucker New Member

    Mar 30, 2001
    Minnesota
    I think baseball is the only other sport this really happens to. Not many fans can afford time time or $ to attend 81 home games though, so they pick and choose. Basketball and hockey have smaller venues, 15-22k, and unless a team tanks at the end of the year their attendence is fairly consistant. (but again you are looking at 41 home games in a season vs half that much for soccer) Football is a sellout virtually every game for every team, but here there is only 8 home games per team, so many fewer fans actually attend.

    I think the point about Americans and hype is very true as well. Americans like to be part of the crowd.
     
  10. NY_Cosmos

    NY_Cosmos New Member

    Apr 21, 2004
    I would say that the critical factor is lead time. Teams have plenty of time to sell tickets for the home opener. They may have 5-10 business days to sell tickets for the next home game, so all things being equal, it's reasonable to expect a sizeable drop in attendance for the second game.

    This is the same with movies. Opening weekend in many cases gets 50-60% of total box office receipts for a movie, primarily because the time to sell tickets.
     
  11. Achtung

    Achtung Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IMO, it comes down to hype more than anything else. That and the fact that in baseball specifically, there are a lot of games, so fans will come out more on that day. Also I think that fans are anxious to see their new team with new players (and often a new stadium) after a relatively long offseason. You'll notice this trend less in football, since there are only 8 home games per season anyways. All of them sell pretty much equally as a result.

    In baseball the big ones will be opening day, July 4, Memorial Day (end of May), and Labor Day (start of Sept). Weekend games also draw more than weekday games. Again, it comes down to picking and choosing which games to go to, and which ones get hyped by management.
     
  12. Centennial

    Centennial Member+

    Apr 4, 2003
    Centennial
    Really? Then you tell me what other sport does not get inflated opening day attendances (If a team sells out each and every game of the season then the opening day crowd was the largest of the season).
     
  13. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    it's also the smallest ....
     
  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think baseball's Opening Day has the power of tradition behind it. Not to get all Bob Costas here, but I think a lot of people believe there is something special about Opening Day, to the point where they'll make it a point to be there, and even take their kids out of school to be there.

    The NFL has tried to make their opening weekend seem more special the last 10 years or so, with the "NFL Kickoff Weekend" and trying to get it away from Labor Day Weekend when they can.

    I think some of the other sports have less (a) tradition (and have been at this for fewer years) and (b) variance between their high and low crowds anyway. I'm just guessing on that, I haven't run the numbers. But it seems like most NBA and NHL games draw between a certain floor and a certain ceiling, and while the home opener might be slightly more festive, I don't know that there's a huge difference between their first and second games.

    I have run the numbers for Major League Baseball for 2003 (I don't have the numbers handy for 2004). MLB Opening Days (or nights) drew, on average, 42,875 in 2003. The second game average was 24,231, a difference of 18,644 (43% difference). Only three teams (Red Sox, Cubs, and Expos in Puerto Rico) had a larger second game crowd than for the opener.

    As usual, not all things are equal. The opponents are. The days of the week (obviously) are not, and most often the time of the game is not. But here are the numbers, make of them what you will (all the standard caveats apply):


    Team...........Opener......Day.......2nd Game.....Day...........Diff.
    Anaheim........43,525.....SUN (N).....43,267.....TUE (N)........-258
    Baltimore......46,257.....MON (D).....27,658.....WED (N).....-18,599
    Boston.........32,029.....SAT (N).....32,368.....SUN (D).........339
    Chicago A......40,395.....FRI (D).....16,972.....SAT (D).....-23,423
    Cleveland......42,301.....TUE (D).....14,841.....WED (N).....-27,460
    Detroit........40,427.....MON (D).....21,123.....WED (N).....-19,304
    Kansas City....40,302.....MON (D).....10,429.....WED (D).....-29,873
    Minnesota......48,617.....FRI (N).....31,421.....SAT (N).....-17,196
    New York A.....33,109.....TUE (D).....31,898.....WED (N)......-1,211
    Oakland .......41,723.....TUE (N).....17,033.....WED (N).....-24,690
    Seattle........45,931.....TUE (D).....35,492.....WED (N).....-10,439
    Tampa Bay......34,391.....MON (N).....11,524.....TUE (N).....-22,867
    Texas..........49,231.....FRI (D).....25,562.....SAT (N).....-23,669
    Toronto........50,119.....MON (N).....15,176.....TUE (D).....-34,943
    AL TOTAL......588,357................334,764................-253,593
    AL Average.....42,026.................23,912.................-18,114

    Team...........Opener......Day.......2nd Game.....Day...........Diff.
    Arizona........47,356.....MON (D).....35,979.....TUE (N).....-11,377
    Atlanta........40,258.....MON (N).....19,116.....WED (N).....-21,142
    Chicago N......29,138.....TUE (D).....29,966.....WED (D).........828
    Cincinnati...**42,343.....MON (D).....22,878.....WED (N).....-19,465
    Colorado.......48,087.....FRI (D).....25,197.....SAT (D).....-22,890
    Florida........37,137.....MON (D).....10,534.....WED (N).....-26,603
    Houston........43,241.....TUE (N).....21,082.....WED (N).....-22,159
    Los Angeles....53,819.....MON (D).....30,341.....TUE (N).....-23,478
    Milwaukee......42,570.....FRI (D).....16,255.....SAT (D).....-26,315
    Montreal (PR)..17,906.....FRI (N).....18,264.....SAT (N).........358
    Montreal (MTL).36,879.....TUE (N)......6,380.....WED (N).....-30,499
    New York N.....53,586.....MON (D).....20,594.....WED (N).....-32,992
    Philadelphia..*59,269.....FRI (D).....22,693.....SAT (D).....-36,576
    Pittsburgh.....36,003.....TUE (D).....23,332.....WED (N).....-12,671
    San Diego.....*61,707.....MON (D).....50,605.....TUE (N).....-11,102
    San Francisco..41,915.....WED (D).....36,388.....THU (N)......-5,527
    St.Louis.......49,561.....MON (D).....26,790.....WED (N).....-22,771
    NL TOTAL......740,775................416,394................-324,381
    NL Average.....43,575.................24,494.................-19,081

    MLB TOTAL...1,329,132................751,158................-577,974
    MLB Average....42,875.................24,231.................-18,644

    **First Opening Day in new ballpark
    *Last Opening Day in old ballpark

    Note: If that doesn't line up right for you because of your browser, the information is also here.
     
  15. Willington_Ortiz_86

    Willington_Ortiz_86 New Member

    Jan 5, 2004
    Brooklyn
    could not agree more...
     
  16. Tricky Tree

    Tricky Tree New Member

    Jul 27, 2001
    Diego's boots
    So are the extra thousands who turn up on MLS opening days gullible souls who fall for the hype year after year? I'm trying to probe into differences between US and European fans I suppose. The Premiership is not an illuminating comparison anymore because the demand far outstrips supply, making most games advance sell-outs, like the NFL. However, in the '80s and before, opening days were outstripped in attendance terms by visits from the big guns. Maybe in the States the opening day crowds are largely due to marketing, with a sprinkling of tradition. Spending time across the pond, I have been aware of much more proactive and varied marketing campaigns surrounding MLS compared to the Premiership, where any promotion comes free courtesy of the media and the embedded football culture in England.
     
  17. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sean, what's gullible about wanting to go to an "event?" Starting probably with baseball, but with other sports following, we've established a tradition in this country that, if you're excited about a sport, you're excited about the beginning of a new season (usually because your team spends time in the offseason telling you that this year is going to be different), and, over time, teams have followed that interest by ramping up their marketing pushes to make openers festive and the "in" thing to do. You want to go to the first game, partly because you've been conditioned to think that it's an event, and that you want to see your team get off to a good start (hopefully).

    The vast majority of NFL tickets are sold as season tickets, so unless you're in Arizona, there's probably going to be a large crowd for the opener and for most games during the year. But there's still something a little extra special about the first home game, because, unless you open with three on the road or something, your team either hasn't lost yet or hasn't lost much, and the illusion that this could be their year is still out there.

    And NFL teams only have 8 regular-season home games, as opposed to, what, 19 in the Premiership? Plus all the other fixtures?

    I haven't run the numbers for the NBA and NHL, but I'm going to guess there's a slightly lower percentage range between the special crowds and the not-so-special crowds. Just a guess.

    It's just one of those things about American sport. I don't know if it's that way anywhere else, but it's become ingrained in us.
     
  18. Yukon Cornelius

    Oct 24, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I think it could be something a lot more simple. I mean - my girlfriend gave up chocolate for lent. So Easter morning, she had chocolate.

    The MLS offseason is four months. Personally, when the league's not in season, I miss it. When April arrives, the diet is over - why not have a meal at the first opportunity?
     
  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the case of the MetroStars, that was the Freddy effect, 80% of it.

    As for the opening day effect...you see it in sports like baseball, hockey, and basketball, which are played from 5-7 to 3-4 times a week. There's no opening day effect in football, where teams play once a week. IOW, in the sport most analogous to soccer, our attendance pattern is like yours.
     
  20. Blong

    Blong Member+

    Oct 29, 2002
    Midwest, the real one.
    TT, the parity so common in American sports tends to downplay the "big gun" effect. I mean, the Yankees will always bring in a few thousand extra fans, and certain players in the NBA may pack arenas when they come to town, but I don't think it's quite like circling a date on your calendar when Manchester United is scheduled to play your team. For an analogy to that, I think college football is most comparable. There are GIANT teams, and there are ho-hum teams, and they tend to stay the same from year to year.

    I think Kenn is right with the optimism thing. I'd like to add that, while baseball and soccer teams may market and hint that "this year will be better", fans also say to themselves "this year we're going to go to several games." So they intend to go to several games and enjoy the season to it's fullest, and they start out well by making sure they go to opening day. They decide to wait until school's out so that their schedule is not to hectic. Then June rolls around and it somehow seems busier than May. Things keep popping up and next thing you know, it's October and you only went to Opening Day. It doesn't mean they don't care about their team, it's just that you buy your tickets ahead of time for opening day (because it may sell out), and you arrange to take off work and pull the kids out of school. The rest of the summer you just wing it when you want to go to a game, but you almost never do. When we have nice, small stadiums that are consistently sold out, you'll see this opening day phenomenon diminish, not because the stadiums are sold out, but because they are sold out--if you follow me. :)
     
  21. masterklh

    masterklh New Member

    Oct 21, 2003
    Massachusetts
    New England Patriots (NFL) have sold out every home game since 1992. Something like 107 or 108 consecutive sell outs. Most NFL teams unless they are traditionally horrible ~coughCardinalscough~ will sell out most of there home games.

    American Sports fans are a tough blend. If there teams are not doing well, people are not going to go watch them. Of course we aren't going to start riots and kill poeple, we simply wont go and watch the game, instead enjoying a quiet saturday or sunday afternoon with our spachla(sp) in one hand, and a cold beer in the other with the remote nearby to switch from NFL to NBA to NHL to MLS games ;)

    What I find amusing (and am guilty of) is going to say.. A Patriots game, and having a mini TV in hand watching the Red Sox or Bruins play ;)
     
  22. whip

    whip Member

    Aug 5, 2000
    HOUSTON TEXAS
    :rolleyes: FINALLY SOMEBODY IS TALKING COMMON SENSE ON THIS BOARD!!!!!.....watch out buddy men in black might be closing on you....But of course many of the directives of MLS/USSF are extremely naive on the approach to promote, schedule and develop soccer in this great country, and just as a sample of this attitude I can personally tell you that the federation's game promotion for the match in Dallas last week was close to NADA...
     
  23. Przybylinski

    Przybylinski New Member

    Apr 28, 2004
    Smallville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Galaxy did 25k first game, 27k (Sold Out) game 2 playing DC United and 3rd was 21k. LA might be a little different as there is a big fan base. It will be interesting to see how they do for attendance on 5/15, my guess is 17k.

    US fans for the most part are fair weather fans and only go when the team is winning. The exception is the NFL for the most part. Green Bay & New England sell out even if they suck and they have had a few seasons like that.

    I myself will be at most of the Galaxy games this year missing them only because I'm out of town or mid-week games.

    Mid-week games are a horrible idea, no one wants to deal with traffic and rushing to games after working all day.

    Dave P.
     
  24. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mainly because the vast majority of NFL tickets are sold as season tickets. You'll see the effect lag a year sometimes, because a good year one year makes it that much easier to sell season tickets the next year, and vice versa. And once you've bought NFL season tickets, you're more likely to use them (or give them to someone who will) if the team or the weather sucks. Though I believe, like most leagues, the NFL counts you whether you show up or not.
     
  25. jbeall

    jbeall New Member

    Jan 18, 2002
    NJ by way of GA
    This question is relatively easy: the NY teams that have been in the metropolitan area for quite some time (enough for multiple generations to have grown up watching and rooting for them), the Knicks and the Yankees, were playing home games on the same day.

    Furthermore, the Yankees were playing their biggest rival (and baseball's most intense rivalry). The Knicks were playing the New Jersey Nets in the NBA playoffs, so Nets fans also had a rooting interest in the game.

    And finally, the weather was awful--both the Yanks/Sox game and the Nets/Knicks games were televised, so you could stay inside and watch. No mystery here. If if if if if IF MLS stays around for another couple of decades and has fans who've GROWN UP rooting for the local teams, then they might develop the sort of loyal fans who'll turn out in that awful weather to see the game live. An SSS near a rail station might help in that regard...
     

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