You guys make some good points. I am not into reshuffling the deck everytime a team slides on hard attendance times. I was just making a point that a neutral fan of this league might be just in wanting to see the Wiz move to a place where they would be better supported. Their attendance is simply awful. It just is. I am not one of those who buys into their faux numbers. We don't need numbers to see the kind of support this team gets. It's bad, even with a very good team. To make matters worse, they play in a giant stadium. This obviously makes an already bad situation appear worse. There is zero atmosphere. None. Zippo. It's just not fun to watch a game from this place. They they demean the game with all sorts of childish sound effects, songs and other various pomp and circumstance. It makes a mockery of the league most of us are passionate about seeing grow. KC's 'product' is a joke. I understand there are reasons for all these things. Valid ones I am sure (although it might be hard to convince me why the Price is Right theme song is necessary during substitutions). But as a fan of the league, I don't see any redeeming value coming out of the Wiz camp. They are a not only a black eye, but an embarassment. As a fan of the league I would like to see them do something with this team, either straighten out their issues or move em. One or the other, but something should be done. My feelings are different towards San Jose. They have a vibrant fan base, a small stadium and a real soccer atmosphere. It would be a shame for the league lose this francise. To get back to the inital point, I can see why people would want them to stay put. But I can also see why lots of these fans want them to start fresh. Sometimes it is necessary and in KC's case, might not be the bad idea.
Right. San Jose attendance has really perked up, so now they lose the team? They had over 18,000 at their last game. What I never understood is that Spartan looks great on tv. I know it's way too skinny, but why the heck couldn't they just knock out some rows and widen the field. It seems like that would be a heck of a lot cheaper than building a stadium from scratch.
I don't want to dig up all the old threads, but just do some searching on the Quakes forum... for now it's not an option because the current management of Spartan (Spartan Shops) won't negotiate for parking and consesions. I think Spartan is a great place to see a game and I'd like to see us stay put with some minimal changes (like expanding the field and places seat backs on all the seats). Spartan has, arguably, housed the 4 best MLS games of all time: MLS's very first game in 1996, 5-4 come back playoff vs LA in 2003, 3-2 playoff vs KC in 2003 and our last LA match. Part of the magic of all 4 games was just how close the fans are to the field. Every SSS should strive for a similar feeling (with a larger field).
It's a good thing you said "arguably." The very first game was pathetic, and the only saving grace was that someone scored. The comeback vs. LA was sweet ... as was the playoff win vs. KC. The last LA match, yes the atmosphere was wonderful, but the game wasn't all that great. There were other games that this league has had that have been more entertaining. But, I'll let everyone go back to the point of this thread.
I can guarantee you that the first issue would be resolved if the Wizards stay. I can almost guarantee you that the second issue would be resolved as well. The Wizards problems aren't because of the "soccer market" in KC. Its been the way the team has been run, and the same can be seen in SJ.
Revs/DC was IMHO the best game ever played in MLS. But like I said, that's just my opinion. Hey ... this gives me an idea for a thread...
I'm still waiting for responses to... 1) Why it's such a good idea if KC is moved. 2) The ignoring of the fact that KC's attendance was doing great until this season (when the sale was announced and money taken from us). I'm typing to all the people who made these statements. Come back and justify yourself. You come here and post away until someone counters your points, then you disappear. Lets go! I'm feeling fiesty.
Because if KC deserves a team and the fans are afraid that their team might get moved then they should be turning out in droves to support their team. 5k inflated announced attendance is not going to get the job done. KC had 10 years to prove that they deserve a team and they failed so move on to city that is more deserving.
Have some Rep dude! Great Post! I am hopeful KC hangs around and does get the SSS and more! KC has never been given a true chance--like Dallas even, to succeed and that is because HUNT has not spent JACK on Advertising. Sure now we have a new stadium opening soon and I see ads in Stonebriar Mall in Frisco about FC Dallas and the new stadium and there is a huge buzz around the area--but advertising helps!! I am sure if KC had a new stadium, good location, and some Advertising, KC would also have the Buzz FC Dallas is currently enjoying! That's the FACT JACK!!
the die hards ARE showing up. the casual fans and the soccer moms that bring their kids are the ones that aren't. these people don't remember when MLS season starts or ends. they rely on radio and tv promotion to remind them there are wizards games going on. it can be assumed that some of these people heard the sale news in december and NOTHING since then so they think the team has already been sold. When I spent time in Kansas City most of the people I mentioned the wizards to were not even aware of their existence. the few that were were convinced they would not be there for the 2005 season.
I think when KC was improving their numbers Hunt was actually spending a lot of money on promotions and so forth. Hence their numbers went up. I remember they had a season ticket sales drive where he was personally calling people himself and they had those choppers promotions and concerts after games. The question I would have is maybe the amount of money they were spending on promotions was actually causing them to lose more even though attendnace went up. That is a real possibility especially when you dont own the stadium and get ancillary revenues. I dont think KC is alone in this either. I think its true in places like Giants stadium and Soldier field also. Thats why they have slashed marketing in those places also.
In Monty's companion thread, several posters chose the 5-5 SJE/Metros game in your house as best ever, while you don't consider it in the top 4.
I continue to be surprised at the unwillingness of NFL franchises to back MLS. Consider that NFL teams have 10 home dates (2 pre-season) in August-December, leaving 355 open. The MLS season currently fills 16 dates in April-September (at worst a 2-month overlap) & can also draw for international friendlies & other pro soccer events. I don't know the actual number of dates Arrowhead is used, but outside of tractor pulls & Monsters of Rock tours, what is there? Arenas in most major markets house NHL (ok,ok!) & NBA teams playing over 40 regular-season games with extra pre-season & playoffs, as well as concerts, arena football, pro lacrosse, college hoops, ice capades, the circus, etc. Most arenas book well over 200 dates annually. While not full houses, don't stadium owners like to open their doors for double the number of MLS events compared to NFL? Is the overhead that high? The motivation that low? Why is NFL-Europe pushed? Currently 5 of 6 teams are based in Germany; England, Scotland & Spain are gone.
Again, Lamar Hunt's fault. At the sale press conference, he would not confirm that the Wizards would be in KC for 2005, and he finally confirmed that in mid to late February. And most of that was still done on a tight budget. He didn't hire more sales reps. He just made the ones he currently had work long hours, and as you said, did a lot of work himself. Most of that was Hunt using his connections to get a load of corporate season ticket sales. The big drop in season ticket sales is because corporate season tickets are WAY down. In fact, individual season tickets are actually up this year, showing that actual fans care about this team. Anyway, the bottom line is that even when Hunt made an effort to bring people to games, I don't think he really went for it. Good point about the lack of ancillary revenues and the cost of promotions. Officially, the Wizards lost significant cash, but in reality, its not as bad as the official paperwork states.
KC Can and Will do just fine. Kansas City is not a farm community surrounded by fields. For all intensive purposes, the KC metro area has a similar population base as St. Louis. Home of the the NHL Blues. I am sure this will get a reaction, but I have long felt the MLS could learn a lot from the NHL. Both leagues are marketing a sport that the "average" American doesn't understand or appreciate. Hockey actually has a bigger hill to climb in that most kids in the midwest play soccer growing up, but not many play hockey. My point? If the Blues can average 18,000 a game in St. Louis KC can draw 10 to 15k if marketed properly.
I wish I knew, 'cause then I would be up in KC offering my services and working for the league. I'm just a simple soccer houligan with faith in my local sides ability to draw a crowd and my national leagues ability to grow into a quality product. A few suggestions I would have to help the Wiz and all of MLS would be: 1. Quit pimping Adu so much and spend those advertising dollars on promoting the whole league. 2. Beg, Borrow, or Steal some more time on Sportscenter. 3. Spend the money and drop an international bomb by signing a top quality foreign player in his prime. A lot of americans follow euro leagues, but few european fans follow the MLS. Grab a big name or two and bring them here to draw some of the european fan interest. 4. Kansas City could use a soccer friendly venu, a print media blitz, and local tv coverage of matches. KC could also benefit from some advetising in Columbia (Home of MU and about 2 hours from the Wiz home field). Some form of partnership with the Missouri Show Me Games, which draws thousands of players from Missouri and surrounding States around the same time as the MLS all star break, would be another great way to get the word out about the Midwests only side. Of course, I have never run the front office of a football club so I could be way wrong on all of this, but you asked!
so in essence, they'd be pimping the new foreign player in his prime instead of adu. and in the process, spend millions to bring him over
Are you people kidding? The fan support in Kansas City is on par with every other team in the league. You people are more timid and reactionary than Filbert on "Rocko's Modern Life". Please, never run for office, never invest money...you know what, don't even get into gardening because you don't have the patience or vision. Fan apathy isn't just K.C.'s thing. Pound for pound, we've got the same thing here in Los Angeles. The Wiz has been right in the middle of the pack for the last five years. Last year they were better than Dallas, San Jose, Denver and New England. You want to pull the plug after a bad season - which technically is only because they're searching for ownership? Do that and we'd have lost Dallas and San Jose in the last two seasons, New York this year, Colorado back in the 90s. The Wizards play in a massive stadium, that's all. It seats 80K, which is bigger than any stadium in the league, ever - except the Rose Bowl - and it's not open ended. They need their own stadium. P.S. What's the formula to average 18,000 to ANY team in the league? Because last season the Galaxy was the ONLY team to do it.
We had a league called NASL where the Cosmos signed every big name from Europe to Brazil, crowds came in loved the games and everybody's mother wanted to go the Cosmos's games because it was a cool thing to do, then the wheels came off the cart and NASL went bye, bye. If you build a SSS in KC folks will show up in numbers. Please look at C-BUS SSS and you can count the fans with one hand. In America the regular Joe cares less for soccer, the trick is to get the regular Joe to come to the games and bring a few others with him. As far as the SC, you have to wait for this generation to die or get a paid TV deal with ESPN and then you get TV time on SC.
No doubt. You focused your own question on how to draw 18K. I started liking soccer because I missed Opening Day for the Kansas City Royals one year and decided to watch the all-new Kansas City Wiz innagural game. I liked it because it was something to cheer for just like football or baseball. I never understood why others didn't just latch on to soccer like that. I never give it the foreign sport stigma...I guess because I'm not a redneck. All that matters is it's a major league sport in your city. I always took friends, they always came willingly. I do the same thing now in Los Angeles even with my non-sports fan friends (most of them). Get people to know that the Wizards are another great live event like the Chiefs or Royals. Thing is, people like crowds and cheering and sports...they already like soccer they just don't know it yet.
SSS are good but they are going to only do so much. After a few years the novelty will wear off. The key for this league is to make the product on the field better every year.