The Panthers and the Lightning draw well. Well, they do when their league isn't in a coma. "You're just jealous." The Buccaneers have a waiting list for season tickets and are, I believe, sold out on that basis. I'll give the Marlins a break since, as a ballpark, Dolphins Stadium is... well, I mean... And what can you say about the Rays?
I'm going to go through all of this again. Not because I particularly want to, but because most of you knuckleheads don't seem to be able/willing to process the information. But I'm stuck at work and have the time and I refuse to ignore ignorance. 1) Any conclusions drawn from KCs attendance this year are idiotic, at best. The team is for sale. The citizens of KC know this. Half of them think the team is as good as gone (which is NOT the case). Hunt Sports Group took all the money out of the organization. That means NO ADVERTISING. I'm not sure what many of you know about getting people to sporting events, but advertising sure helps. HSG has done it's best to kill the market by spending as little money as possible. That has no bearing on, nor should it, what a local investor will do. They need only look at the last 5 years of KCs attendance (which some BigSoccer posters conveniently ignore) to know that when the proper work is put in the people will attend games. KC Average Attendance: 2005- 9,615 2004- 14,816 2003- 15,573 2002- 12,255 2001- 10,954 2000- 9,112 Notice a trend anyone? In 2000 we won the Cup and the Wizards organization made a large push in the following years to increase attendance. The means they spent money, and holy crap it worked! Now, they aren't spending money and the team is for sale. What a freaking surprise that attendance has dropped! Does KC's attendance suck this year? You bet your ass. Do the KC faithful, the one's on these boards, wish KC's attendance was better this year? You bet your ass. But the fact remains that none of this is a surprise to KC fans. 2) Wednesday night, 100+ degrees in the Missouri humidity. It was hotter than hell out there today. Neither of those factors do anything to help get people to the stadium regardless of advertising. 3) I can't wait for the day that all of these posters that "are sure" or use the word "obvious" when talking about what teams will be moved/sold and to where are proven wrong. I only hope you have the nuts to come back here and say you were wrong. Unfortunately, I know for a fact that won't happen. Who the hell do you think you are to pretend like you know what is going to happen with KC? The people that are informed and actually involved in the situation aren't worried about KC moving. While I have been one of the bigger pessimists in KC about the team staying, those people that are actually involved in the process of finding a local buyer assured me to not worry. I think I'm going to go with the information they provide over what some dumbasses on BigSoccer think they know. 4) It is hilarious, I mean literally comical, to read these threads every time KC has poor attendance. Seriously, get a clue people. "This seals the deal"??? "It's over for KC"??? Yeah, one freaking game is going to make or break the deal. Got a basis for those statements? Any information to back it? No? That's what I thought. Now shut up. Be assured, there is still some question whether KC will stay here. But as I said, there is talk from those involved in the actual process that good news is coming. I'm still pessimistic (although a lot less in the last couple months), basically because that is my nature. But just like all the other Wizards fans, I sure hope it's true. And when/if it is, I won't let this forum hear the end of it. When KC is playing in a SSS and drawing good crowds again I'll be in here starting a thread after every game. I won't let the people that doubted KC hear the end of it. Ok, sorry about that interuption. Now everyone can continue to post things that have no factual basis.
I understand all the reasons why the Wizards attendance has sucked this year, but the problem I have is that compared to San Jose very little is being done to try to save the team. San Jose's stadium situation is actually worse than KC's. They play in an 80 year old place with no seatbacks, no video screen, and the 10 yards nearest to each endline is invisible to 1/4 of the stadium. Every week an article comes out about how Club America is moving the team to Houston, but somehow they have more season tickets now, then they have ever had before. There were 16,000 fans who tormented the league's best player, and gave their team true home-field advantage. All that when the team is less likely to stay put than KC.
You remember the game awhile back when Japan had to play North Korea behind closed doors on a neutral field? Yeah, there was more fanfare at that game than at this one.
What HSG has done to the Wizards is despicable. From the cheapness with which they market the team do they absolutely horrific cartoon sound effects and music played throughout the game - I cannot think of a better way to run off your fans that what HSG has done in KC. If they can't sell it - I wouldn't be surprised if they just kill the team. The Wizards are dying on the vine. HSG stopped watering them. If that doesn't tell you that KC is going to be moved sold or folded after this year - nothing will.
I'm not buying this whole lack of marketing effort as an excuse for poor attendance. I don't believe the core of fans for KC are great enough to outweigh the chance of moving. Besides, Hunt has had the team on the block for far too long. At this point, almost anywhere other than KC would be a tremendous step up for a franchise that is in the top half of MLS in talent. I feel sorry for the true fans. You all are the ones that lose out and MLS will lose your loyalty as television viewers and ticket buyers if you go to another city. However, I just can't imagine how troubled the brass of MLS have to be when they see the efforts in the stands there. San Jose deserves to see their team stick it out and AEG needs to try to move its muscle in that area. You get those people their own facility and I think you see something great happen there. The market there has not sucked as much as some would assume and the lack of hockey has had to assist. I hope deals can be worked out for both franchises, but if Club America wants a team, I would rather them take KC and put them in Houston. And for goodness sakes get a name that is classy and doesn't look like a straight steal from anywhere else in the world. (Houston Domestic...j/k too much of a play on other names and I'm lacking for creativity today).
I don't see MLS folding any teams any time soon. Even KC. The Media would look all too much at a retraction effort here. There are other markets that could get KC. The anticipation of the State of the League address during this year's All Star Match is so high for myself and others I'm sure too. There are some big ticket items to be announced I feel: DC's sale/stadium, SJ and KC updates, expansion targets for the coming year, new sponsorships, update on Denver stadium, (good hopefully) results from Europe matches, etc. I just hope that whatever happens to SJ and KC is truly a major benefit to MLS as a whole.
The Panthers and Lightning don't draw well. The last year of NHL play, the Lightning only filled 84.4% of capacity (16th in the 30 team league), while the Panthers were only around 79% (23rd). IIRC, the Lightning didn't sell out their first round playoff games (or at least a couple of them) either, until they started progressing deeper into the playoffs. And for the person that asked, yes the Phins playoff game that year was blacked out.
I think KC basically comes down to if they get a stadium or not. If they do they will stay, if they dont they are gone. It really seems to be little more than that. Their attendance is gonna suck really bad this year for all the reasons Benc mentioned. The question I would have as a potential investor is this. Is there enough interest with that market where even if I build a stadium, get every game on TV, and spends lots on marketing to make it worth my while? If not, is it really worth doing all that? When I can put that same effort into a market the size of Houston or Philadelphia and have a much bigger upside in terms of attendance, local tv deal, corporate sponsorships, etc. That being said, crowds like last night won't do much to help them. Last night reminded me of watching the Montreal Expos play in their final year in Montreal. A funeral like atmosphere.
Ben, I'm glad one of the harder-core KC fans gave their perspective. If you'll go back through the thread (I know, not an activity that excites you much), you'll see that I haven't been posting "It's over for KC"; I merely posted the original statement that I was (and still am) appalled by the number of people that seemed to be actually in Arrowhead last night. I say this in order to clarify where I'm coming from. I know absolutely nothing about the likelihood of KC moving, and I know that. But despite everything you said, last night's attendance looked appalling. Yes, there are a lot of reasons why folks might not go to the games, or last night's in particular; you gave some, and I'm sure there are others. But as I was reading your post, what it seemed to condense down to for me was "these are the reasons why only the hardcore fans are going to show." OK, fine, for various reasons only hardcore fans are going to show. The turnout *still* looked appalling, even with that caveat; if the numbers I saw on the screen were only the hardcore fans who come every game and support Heart of America and so forth, well, that was a tiny number of hardcore fans. You indicate that your sources say the team will most likely be sold to someone who'll keep it running and in KC, and I certainly have no better information than they do. But it's really hard for an outsider to see that likelihood after scenes like last night: it's hard to see why a buyer would expect that advertising money would produce that enormous a turnaround, or that the stadium investment would be a good one. Even with the past attendance figures -- as a potential buyer, 2001 ticket sales don't help me now, and they don't necessarily indicate that profitability is ever possible when even a huge turnaround back to those numbers wouldn't get me there. Oh, and FYI, despite the fact that I'm a DC fan, I don't take any pleasure out of this topic at all. For the sake of the league, I don't want to see KC fold, and I don't want to see KC have to move. What I want is to see you guys filling the fscking stadium. It just gets harder and harder to see that as possible. You say there's likely to be a local resolution; obviously I can't tell you you're wrong. And I hope you're right. But it's just very hard to see it happening, because things have fallen so far that it's hard to see a buyer having the faith that they can turn it all around.
Well IMO that should mean more people coming to the games. If they are afraid that the team is going to be moved then they should be supporting the Wiz even more. With the steady decline in attendance this year apparently most of the KC fans are fair weather fans, and there are many other cities that deserve the team much more. After last night apparently there are only about 5k fans that really care, and that wont cut it. RIP KC Wizards 1996-2005
Count me as surprised that the Quakes had the largest crowd of the three matches last night. Good for them and their fans.
Yeah... it's like winning the gold at the Special Olympics. (I keed, I keed... it's not quite that good. )
Agree...ugh. You just feel like walking up to these people who decided to pump in sound effects in MLS stadiums like KC, CLB, and COL and punch 'em in the gut. It simply says one thing to the fan: "this game is comical...it is a joke". Me too.
People of Kansas 'yeah, I know Arrowhead is outside' is there a soccer fanbase in the area? What is the size of this fanbase? What can be done to bring them to the games?
Its horrible. I was watching the game last night and Kyle Martino was called for a foul and he starts complaining to the referee and then all of a sudden they blare "big girls don't cry" over the soundsystem. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. It makes the game into like a cartoon.
God, will we have those sound effects in Frisco? Because they're already in Columbus. I hope Guppy is British enough to not put them in Bridgeview.
If I were a KC fan - I think I would have stopped going to games by this point. Looks like more than a few have.
I absolutelly hate any sound efects, chearleaders or anything like that at soccer games, but that is just funny You go girl!
Did you take the time to look at the last four seasons worth of attendance in KC? Guess not. Good. Glad you don't live in KC. No offense to the San Jose guys, because I really hope they turn out just as well as we do. But one game that gets all sorts of publicity and now all the sudden they are the team being wrong done by the threat that their team could move? I love how the mood of BigSoccer sways with the wind...
Even worse than music was what I saw at a Harrisburg City Islanders (PSL) game last year. It was one of the local "adult hits" radio station's promotional night. So they had their dorky 40-something DJ walking around with a microphone talking to kids in the stands during the game. All the while this is all piped into the PA system. So I'm sitting there trying to watch a game while I'm also having to listen to what youth club little Johnny plays for and what his favorite type of snack is from the snack stand. Unfortunately for them I've spent all my soccer money on going to DC United games this season instead.
On SJ winning the trophy for best attendance last night... Too, too funny. Consider as well that usually around 75% of the fans at Spartan are on the camara side. Everybody's all excited at 15.9K last Saturday. That's a really bad Wed. night game for LA.