Gentlemen, great discussion of midfield Xs&Os - EVS, Allosm, Liverpool FC, et al. FWIW, I agree with most of what has been said, though I am less sanguine about Reyna. IMO, in games where he or his style can be useful, the US should prevail anyway. Against the top level opposition however, Reyna's age and injuries have made him less than an influential international tier contributor. He looked very slow against Netherlands and not capable of holding onto the ball for long. He was either dispossessed or fouled. (Granted, he went against Davids for stretches of time). Besides, I am not sure how many really good teams will play a defensive bunker against the US. Overall then, I'd hope that the current US nationals will sharpen their skills because Reyna has become a rather one-dimensional player. Just, IMO, mind you. Thanx.
Really? Claudio plies his way for a team that was fending off relegation last year. That team is happy to have him, but in no sense is he a star for the team. For the 2003-04 season, one Man City website rated 7 players ahead of Reyna in terms of importance to the club, and several other players his equal. A useful but unremarkable starter on a decent but unremarkable top division European team ... hey it's wonderful living, may all soccer dreams play out so well. But Carlos Bocanegra is in an equivalent position, and DaMarcus Beasley appears to be in an equivalent position, and Brad Friedel is in an equivalent position, and Steve Cherundolo is in an equivalent position, and ... well, you get the point.
dan the red pointed out, reyna is the best holding mid, outside of JOB who could play for the usa.... seems the criticism of reyna focus upon what REYNA cannot do, rather than who is a better HOLDING MID than reyna.... usa gets up against some big boys, who can dominate the ball, then the presence of reyna is needed.... against most of concacaf, outside mexico, reyna's best skills aren't needed... there are too many folk looking at reyna as an a-mid, and say see. he can't do that well enough...get him off the pitch.... put it's a question of what role reyna is best suited and when he's best suited, and dan the red's lengthy dissertation described the matter extremely well... is reyna a MUST use player....NO....but there are certain situations where I want him out there on the pitch...and there are times where a diamond midfield with a KZ type out there is the best match-up... and there are times when KZ with Reyna and beasley+donovan is the best option
Do you really want to live and die by Citeh fan boards? This thread http://www.soccer24-7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48556 has most posters with Reyna first choice (if he was healthy) in their midfield. And Man City is 11th on the table right now, having given up what, seven goals. They are four points above Fulham, bla, bla, bla. So really, in a worst case scenario a healthy Reyna is one of the top 44 midfielders in the Prem!! A healthy JOB did not even dress for Ajax-Maccabi and saw no time for Ajax-Heerenveen, so he is not even in the running to be one of the top 72 midfielders in Holland!! And Bease is not a first choice starter at PSV, so he's probably at like 81 or so... So, even with the absurdity of trying to gauge a player like that Reyna is still the closest we have to "world class" except, of course, Dolo who is one of the 24 best backs in Germany!
John O'Brien would start in central midfield for any other club outside of the big 3 and Beasley would start at any other club in the league at left wing. Just because they are not first choice at Ajax or PSV doesn't mean they wouldn't be automatic choices anywhere else in the league (which I imagine you know already, I guess we all need our jollies on Friday). Most English fans have a fairly good opinion of Claudio Reyna, but they also often admit he seems like a bit of a 'tweener - he obviously has class and they rate him - but they don't think he is good enough to replace their attacking midfielder or their defensive midfielder, etc. So they sort of scratch their heads and acknowledge that Citeh looks a lot worse when he is not playing, even if Citeh's shape and build-up play is still awkward when he is in there.
As you saw, my point was that trying to make a case for or against a player based on where their team is in the standings (last year at that) and where one fan board rates them (especially when it's still in the top 10 field players!) is just gassing for the sake of gassing. I'm a very strong support of JOB and think he is a very talented player. I also like Bease, although I think he has more weaknesses in his game than some US fans like to admit - though I think a spell at PSV will (and already is) help that. But if you want to do a "statistical" analysis of current USMNT players in Europe over the course of their careers to date, Reyna will win hands down. No one has had the totality of European success, domestic and UEFA/CL over time that he has had. And that means absolutely nothing in the thinly disguised argument about whether the USMNT plays better with or without him, or whether he and LD are "mutually exclusive" players. It doesn't even really tell you how good he is. But to cheery pick stats like that to try and make the case is just Koe mest.
No, it's not. It's trying to assess where Claudio stands, in the eyes of people who couldn't be bothered about his USMNT status. At any rate, why are we arguing? You say Man City is midtable at the moment. You say Claudio is one of its top 10 field players. OK, fine. These facts support what I wrote: Reyna is just another guy on just another team in an admittedly terrific league. That will be a fair summary of his EPL career, when all is said and done. Absolutely. Without question.
IMO, Brad Friedel had achieved more by being named the best GK in the EPL for the 2,002-03 season. Claudio Reyna, as has been said, is a middle-of-the-road midfielder in the EPL where dozens of better mids are employed (ManCity's strength is in its forward line, so its current position is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things) while Bradley was numero uno by many a survey.
I think for the most part we are talking field players here. And whether or not ManCity's strength is the power of it's beautiful powder blue is irrelevant. The point is that someone claims Reyna is "world class" or "best US ever" or something equally subjective and then someone else tries to knock it down by making like Reyna is "only" a first choice midfielder on a midtable EPL - as if the USMNT, or most other National Teams for that matter - have dozens of those. And I was just pointing out that it is actually a relative rarity that has not been replicated by many other US players. That's all. More will do it, but it is not as easy as everyone wants to make it. Reyna, over the course of his career, has beat out many other decent players, including Tugay, Gattuso (Dickie A sold him around the time he brought Reyna in - so maybe not as clear as Tugay, but the case can be made) Siberski and others. "Dozens" of better midfielders is perhaps an exageration, but he is not the best of best by any means either. He has been, however, first choice everywhere he has gone. Has only left clubs of his own volition. Has been a coach and player fave. So he really can't be all that bad, now can he?
I don't see why we have to eliminate Fridel just because he's a GK... but I basically do not depart much from where you are on the rest. Claudio had a pretty darn good Euro career and it'd be nice if more Americans followed suit.
Let me be a little more specific here. All of our goaltenders are world class. We have the deepest, best group in history. There are possibly a double handful of goaltenders in the world that I'd take over our third choice keeper. Set that aside. In terms of field players, Donovan, Bocanegra and Beasely are all very good players that are growing towards world-class status. However, only Reyna has spent his entire career overseas, building bridges for other folks to follow. He's been a first choice player on every team he's played for, for nearly ten years. Is that world class? No. But it's the closest thing we've got, up to this point. Give those other guys a couple of years, and then we'll see where we are.
All this is true however, I play EPL Fantasy Challenge through FOX (2-3 years now). One thing can be ascertain. I have made leaderboard. There are others. That are better. An american has yet to breach 1 pg. outside of goalies. That being top fifty. These stats lack catagories but guidance find mark with some. It feel sometimes. One can drum up talk without production (good talk at that). Hard soccer toughen skin. Where are awards? We here on forum become seeker faithfuly. Examination and outcome win in length of career. European Football is no joke. Contentment hold over half of players on scene and 4-8 goals for quaterfinals of cup. Bottom line is midfielder. Team need them and they need team.
Reyna, is prime example he's not fast enough to stop an attacking side but good enough to slow them down, also rarely ever attacks. Reyna is almost always in the 3rd 4th of the pitch. good guy to have arround cause he's not too high profile so he can ussually foul alot and not get carded. Unlike say Zidane(very offence minded also very creative) and Also say (Viera more defensive midfilder)