At what point do we sit our starters?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Feb 12, 2021.

  1. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 Eleven Bravo, Feb 12, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
    This thread is sure to be controversial and subject for good debate...

    The question is at what point do we sit our starters?

    Let’s take Christian Pulisic for example. Nobody wants him to sit. Everyone wants him to lead and to play the way we’ve seen him play. We want him to become what we hoped he’d become. But if you haven’t paid attention, Pulisic has been downright awful over the past few months. Personally, with all the Chelsea games I’ve watched this season, I’m struggling to recall when he hasn’t been hurt or he hasn’t been the worst player on the field. If you missed it last night, a USL League One player could have done better than Pulisic. He was slow. He was timid. He was clumsy. He was out of sync with his teammates. He didn’t have a clue. And he didn’t seem to care. Honestly, it was that kind of performance, if I was Tuchel, I would never play Pulisic again, and force his transfer away from the club before he could infect the rest of the team. And that’s not just one game. It’s not even been a few games. It’s become a pattern with him where he is playing absolutely horrible.

    Although, Pulisic is the worst offender as far as a radical drop in form (hopefully not class), Reyna is not playing well either. That said, to be fair, his issues look more like fatigue than anything else. And we could make a case for a number of other starters who are also in poor form right now.

    Nevertheless, when would we sit someone who is a lock starter? At what point do we say your name isn’t all that you need to get on the team sheet? Or do we slug away, sit hungrier players, because ‘they’re not there yet’?

    Let me respond to my own question. Sometimes, I know, it depends. Sometimes it’s good to give an out-of-form player a chance to get his form back. Other times, we might have to bench a player to get his attention - that what he’s doing right now is not good enough. And yet, there are times when we just have to move on.

    In Pulisic’s case. I don’t know yet. It would be a hell of a move ~ a la leaving Donovan off the WC roster kind of move. I’m not ready to move on from him (mainly because we still lack depth). But based solely on his current performance? I would start Brenden Aaronson, Paul Arriola, Julian Green, Seb Lletget, Jordan Morris, Jonathan Lewis, Jesus Ferreira, Chris Mueller, Tim Weah - hell maybe even Gyasi Zardes - over him in a minute if I just based it on current form. That said, I have to consider player management. I realize Pulisic is the most talented player in this pool; therefore, would that help him? Can he be helped? Will he find his groove again? For that reason, I might just power through playing a player who I know is not in the right head space for the level of soccer we’re trying to play.

    Either way, I’m interested to see how Berhalter handles the problem.
     
  2. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I think we only sit them when and if the time comes that they perform worse for the US than other options. For me, someone in a US shirt has to play better and they have to play badly for the US team. You always call in your best players even if they are in a bit of a slump. If they look poor in camp, you can decide to use someone else who is outplaying them or bring them off the bench. But, often a change of scenery is just what a player needs to get out of a slump. Just because a guy is having a bad 3-4 weeks at his club, he is not suddenly out of the team when he was otherwise a top player, just doesn't happen that way. You have to consider our top players are playing a lot of games at a very high level and they wear down, go through ups and downs and their form varies. Very few players each year go through an entire season in top form and peak health. That's just not realistic. Messi has slumps, Ronaldo has slumps. Getting too carried away with "what have you done lately?" is failing to see the forest through the trees. A slump does not fundamentally change who someone is as a player and getting in a new environment can often be a big help.

    I'd be less forgiving as status in the team goes down to be clear. A guy like Pulisic who has been around the team and performed well in the past gets a longer rope than a new kind with a handful of caps trying to fit in. It's not unfair to give some earned credit to your stalwarts and tossing your top players aside at the first sign of a slump (which is far different from someone getting old and losing it in a more absolute sense), is a disaster for continuity and team building.
     
    sXeWesley, Calling BS and Eleven Bravo repped this.
  3. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    We sit them when they don't perform for the USNT.
     
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  4. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you're overreacting to Pulisic's struggles. Chelsea should not transfer him based on that performance. Coming back from covid last season he was one of the best players in the league. He's regressed to the mean, but that's still at least useful as a super-sub, and he could hit another hot streak.

    However, for the national team I think he and everybody should get benched for poor performance overall or a string of bad form in camps. I don't like this sense of entitlement for a spot a lot of our fans want players to have based on club pedigree. I think it stems from insecurity about us as a developing football nation. Most fans of nat'l teams with any history don't think like this. They have vitriol toward players who perform poorly for the nat'l team, regardless where they play their club ball. As a practice penning players into lineups in perpetuity reinforces bad habits and poor team chemistry.

    One of Gregg's best decisions was subbing out Pulisic at Canada. Whether that was a contributing factor in Pulisic's strong play subsequently I don't know. But all players, including him, need to know they're not above the team, and not everything they do is acceptable.

    I think when people say players are lock starters it should only be for short-term and long-term meant colloquially. In reality they should all be subject to being dropped before long like they are for their clubs.
     
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  5. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do you "sit" a player for the NT? Are you saying you wouldn't call Christian up?

    Club and country are totally different. Sounds like Pulisic is having a crisis of confidence. Doesn't mean he'd have the same challenges playing in a NT camp at all. If there's a match tomorrow, we're all calling Pulisic in. You look at his form in camp.
     
  6. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    By the way, since we've basically had zero games with a full squad since Berhalter has become coach, "starters" on this team mostly exist in some sort of hazy netherworld of Big Soccer invention, media speculation, and Berhalter's private thoughts. For me, we actually need a game or three with a steady lineup before we can say who our starters are to even start worrying about who gets dropped.
     
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  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. The only place I've seen "starters" is on Big Soccer "Best XI" threads.

    As we've said................Pulisic and Reyna alone have never played a game on any level together. Do people expect us to just roll into a WCQer with a group of guys that have played a few games together, and be successful?

    What we need to do if we hope to qualify for the World Cup with this very young group is have them play as many games together as possible this spring and summer. So I expect as close to the A team as possible in March (minus the players in Olympic qualifying), and then the Gold Cup this summer. We may rest them for the Nations League.

    We're not France. Our depth is developing, but its not good. If Reyna or Pulisic or whomever is not playing particularly well in club football, we're still going to call him up.
     
  8. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I think Pulisic and Reyna are two different cases. Reyna is the kid that never played that many games and probably exhausted. Sit him. Pulisic, if healthy, playing well below his level, and, considering how sensitive he is, might have some mental slump. Play him, help him get out of it.
     
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  9. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    When did Gio Reyna become a starter that we could sit?
     
  10. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    When someone is better?

    It is going to happen with all of them eventually. 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, who knows. I don't think you can sit Pulisic for a guy making sub appearances and cup starts in the Championship. But if Pulisic is a part time starter at Chelsea and Musah, Weah, and Reyna are all in excellent form, why not? Someone is going to overtake him sometime.

    Berhalter doesn't seem to have a quick hook; but we will see. He is still talking about Altidore and calling in Roldan for heaven's sake.

    I really don't think it is a problem. Pulisic had some personal issue that has probably affected things beyond what we can know. He doesn't seem to be upset like some others and reports are he is training well. He has been hurt regularly and this desire by USMNT to see him in every minute of 4 competitions is self defeating. Lampard didn't care what the trainers said. Tuchel does and is obviously making a point not to kill players for no reason. I'm sure if they needed a goal he would have been on, but they didn't.

    Once they get the defense sorted out, he will sort out the attack. Obviously, he is working on getting Werner going and then will work on Havertz. I have no doubt Pulisic will be a key player going forward. I don't even know why so much worry is around him. The only thing with him is health.
     
  11. WVRevy

    WVRevy New Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Aug 10, 2009
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you would start "Brenden Aaronson, Paul Arriola, Julian Green, Seb Lletget, Jordan Morris, Jonathan Lewis, Jesus Ferreira, Chris Mueller, Tim Weah" over Christian Pulisic in a must-win game, quite frankly, none of your other opinions are worth considering. I've watched just about every game he's played this year, and you are VASTLY overselling how out of form he's been. The biggest issue he's had is figuring out what his role is supposed to be, with both Chillwell behind and Werner inside forcing into spaces that, last year, he had to himself.

    I'm sorry, but that kind of hyperbole is just nonsense.
     
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  12. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’ve watched most of the games he’s played in, and I have not oversold how out of form, he’s been in. You can say otherwise. But in my opinion - at least, he is having the worst year of his life, and he is playing like crap.

    Edit: let me make sure that I add... I’m not rooting against him. I want him to be playing at a top level as much as anyone else. I know that he’s our most talented player. But I should emphasize *as of now* he’s certainly not playing up to it. Does that mean he should be benched? I don’t know. It’s a gamble. But Berhalter should be afraid that Pulisic is doing everything in his power to convince him that he shouldn’t start.
     

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