Assessment of young Americans in Europe (as a group)?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by dspence2311, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We are in a historically poor era for GKers.
     
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  2. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    A casualty of climate change, unfortunately.
     
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  3. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Two major WTFs in there.

    Jozy is widely noted for physical domination of CBs. This is super wrong.

    Jozy is a great finisher and a far superior passer to the kid.
     
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yet they are both very good goalkeepers with good experience for just being 24 yo. Both have also played quite well for the usmnt. Horvath isnt not playing because of his performances. I'd say the position look similar to how it looked in the 1998 cycle.
     
  5. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berhalter and Stu Holden have recently commented that Sargent has to learn to be in the goal scoring areas. It seems that he's going too far afield looking for the ball.
     
  6. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    He needs to read the defense better and be in the most dangerous place the player with the ball can get it to him at. It’s not easy. Sometimes he’s in very dangerous spots that his teammates can’t get the ball to him in, and other times he’s not in the dangerous spot that a teammate wants him to be in. With experience that will get better. The good news is he has the skillset he will need as he learns the game. In comparison Zardes will never have the skillset he needs to an international player even though he has the soccer IQ.
     
  7. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    That's a really good point about staying in goal scoring areas. I've seen a lot of strikers want to drop deep into the midfield when starved of service just to get touches on the ball and stay involved. But often, they are better off fighting for more attacking positions so that when they finally do get touches, they are in position to actually be effective instead of being another body trying to do the mdfield's work and just cluttering things up and not taking up the positions they should. It's hard work fighting for position in a crowd all game with little service, but sometimes that's the job.
     
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  8. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    It is interesting to look at USMNT center backs in the modern era. The best have been Pope, Onyewu and Brooks. We can argue about which was best in his prime but I think they are pretty similar. They have been paired with a variety of journeymen over the years: Agoos, Berhalter, Bocanegra, DeMerit. Now Long follows in this lineage.

    Hard to see improvement coming from the current generation. Will Richards turn out to be better than Pope, Onyewu, Brooks. Maybe. Maybe not. Will the pipeline simultaneously produce two center backs of roughly the quality of Pope, Oneyewu and Brooks. Maybe. Maybe not. But looking unlikely at this point. Will the pipeline produce an upgrade in the quality of the "second guy". Maybe. Maybe not.

    At least at the center back position, improvement is not readily apparent.
     
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  9. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    So we are down at goalie. Treading water at center back. Treading water at forward.

    There is hope for improvement at fullback and midfield.

    In Pulisic, McKennie, Adams and Dest, we have something to build around. But it is not clear yet that this group will be better than the core group of Donovan, Dempsey, Onyewu and Beasley, who defined the previous "Golden Generation."
     
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  10. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I'm just hoping that we don't step back!
     
  11. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The relative ceilings of the current players to their global peers is significantly above our previous Golden Generation. What remains to be seen is if they are able to not only achieve those ceilings in the USMNT context but also to be better than the sum of the parts, which the Golden Generation (and others) were.
     
  12. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Yes. Right now we can only go by the parts. It will take a while for the results, or the sum of the parts, aspect of the story to play out.

    A large part of the sum of the parts element had to do with the contribution of role players like Sanneh, Heydude, McBride and others. The quality of the role players and their contributions is another way the team could improve. I alluded to that earlier in this thread by arguing we should be focused as much if not more on the back half of projected WC rosters and how that compares to prior squads.
     
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  13. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I beg to differ, on many occasions, Jozy will fall looking for a call, especially inside the box and when he doesn't get it he begins to foul.and get carded. I have to go back to 2009 vs Espain when he had his way against a quality CB.
     
  14. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I remember him smoking Jaime Carragher in the 2010 WC. Muscled by him for a shot that went off the post.
     
  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Your previous argument was about depth and now you are keeping it to the top four players? If you look at both generations in total, it is hard to not see this crop will be much better.

    1 GK Delvin Countess 9 January 1982 (aged 22) Dallas Burn
    2 DF Jose Burciaga 16 November 1981 (aged 22) Kansas City Wizards
    3 DF Ricky Lewis 29 May 1982 (aged 21) Los Angeles Galaxy
    4 DF David Stokes 28 May 1982 (aged 21) D.C. United
    5 MF Kyle Beckerman 3 April 1982 (aged 21) Colorado Rapids
    6 DF Nat Borchers 13 April 1981 (aged 22) Colorado Rapids
    7 MF DaMarcus Beasley 24 May 1982 (aged 21) Chicago Fire
    8 MF Logan Pause 22 August 1981 (aged 22) Chicago Fire
    9 MF Brad Davis 8 November 1981 (aged 22) Dallas Burn
    10 FW Landon Donovan 4 March 1982 (aged 21) San Jose Earthquakes
    11 FW Alecko Eskandarian 9 July 1982 (aged 21) D.C. United
    12 MF Brian Carroll 20 July 1981 (aged 22) D.C. United
    13 DF Zak Whitbread 10 January 1984 (aged 20) Liverpool
    14 DF Chad Marshall 22 August 1984 (aged 19) Columbus Crew
    15 MF Bobby Convey 27 May 1983 (aged 20) D.C. United
    16 DF Chris Wingert 16 June 1982 (aged 21) Columbus Crew
    17 MF Eddie Gaven 25 October 1986 (aged 17) NY MetroStars
    18 GK Doug Warren 18 March 1981 (aged 22) D.C. United
    19 FW David Testo 7 August 1981 (aged 22) Richmond Kickers
    20 FW Edward Johnson 31 March 1984 (aged 19) Dallas Burn

    Add Onyewu and Johnson, Clark, and Dempsey from the 2003 u20s.

    Comparing today vs LD's generation there is a chance that the current generation has a player that is better than every single one from previous one. I think this is already true with Pulisic, Adam's, Mckennie and Dest. I think that there are five that could end up being more influential attacking player than Dempsey and Beasley, but who knows. Even if there isnt a better defender than Onyewu, there will be a couple of solid center backs.

    CB - Onyewu vs CCV, Richard's, EPB
    OB - ??? Vs Dest, Robinson, Cannon

    6 & 8 - Beckerman, Clark vs Adam's, Mckennie, Yeuill, Servania, Durkin, Servania

    10 - Donovan, Dempsey vs Pulisic, Ledezma
    Wide players - Beasley, Convey, Davis vs Weah, Reyna, Llanez, Ferreira, Sabbi, Lewis
    Forwards - Johnson vs Sargent, Soto
     
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  16. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See what we are doing? we have to think back a whole decade to confirm that he has his way with top CBs
     
  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Sure. It's a fair point. He was a beast for a while. But it's been a while.
     
  18. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Are we restricting ourselves to a particular range for birthdates for each group?
     
  19. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He wins his share of penalities. That's not playing small.

    1065683775953223686 is not a valid tweet id


    This is also not playing small.
     
  20. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    [​IMG]

    Can't forget this one!!! (from the year before)​
     
  21. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He bodied the Mexicans before missing the shot at the GC this year.

    For all the criticism he gets,fair and otherwise, the lack of power play is one of the stupidest.
     
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  22. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    The four players you listed were in 2 two year youth cycles. I just looked at who had been called into the u23 recently. To be apple's to apples, remove Llanez and Reyna or add Spector, Feilhaber, Kljestan and Nguyen. If we do the latter, there are quite a few players in this u20 cycle that look promising.

    The players you listed look to be born in 82 and 83. I guess the equivalent would be 98 and 99, but that seems limiting given the solid players from 2000. I'd consider 17 to 21 be "young players" which is what this thread is about. I think I might of let some 22 yo in?
     
  23. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And this critical weakness affects the entire teams shape.
    It is folly for us to play with one DM and two attacking FBs when our center pairing is not up to snuff.
     
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  24. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    not playing gotcha...I come here for good faith discussion...but I want to make sure we are doing apples to apples
     
  25. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    A lot is riding on Richards' development.
     
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  26. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Or have a DLP who isn’t a very strong defender....
     
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