Assessment of young Americans in Europe (as a group)?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by dspence2311, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was the second or third post with politics in it in a short time. I mean I can spew politics also but this is a soccer board I thought.
     
  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    There was no politics in the posts. One can mention a politician without mentioning politics.
     
  3. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've seen whole forums taken down by too much talk about a certain unindicted co-conspirator. Better to leave that man out of N&A.
     
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  4. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    “The sky is blue.” Not political, unless one party insists the sky is green. Then it’s political.
     
  5. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I've actually seen a green appearing sky. Was that political?
    At least it was not a "Purple Cow."

    I never saw a Purple Cow,
    I never hope to see one;
    But I can tell you, anyhow,
    I'd rather see than be one.
    by Gelett Burgress

    He also wrote when asked about it:

    Ah, yes, I wrote the "Purple Cow"—
    I'm Sorry, now, I wrote it;
    But I can tell you Anyhow
    I'll Kill you if you Quote it.​

    I'm not really concerned about that threat since Burgress died in 1951 and I do not believe in vengeance from the grave.
     
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  6. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's weird, since the last two league MVPs have been skill players.

    I don't know what you do where you've had the opportunity to observe enough to make a categorical statement about the academies of 30 different clubs located all across the USA (each of which have a 2nd team, several youth teams and many local youth affiliates). I think it's probably more realistic that there is a range of quality and outcomes across the spectrum of MLS development since, again, we're talking about at least 30 different organizations all with vastly different ideas and procedures.

    (Plus, the idea that many MLS clubs are spending significant time "training" players to foul is, frankly, just dumb.)
     
  7. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    I can say I predict massive improvements in Orlando’s academy since we have plucked an ex FCD coach and GM. The youth soccer politics has always been toxic in this area. And yet players like Zussi and McCarty still found their way through. That’s evidence to think many more players can come out of this area under a nurturing system like the one you have at FCD. This year we signed our first teen (Bender) who’s played his way through the youth academy and our USL OCB team.
     
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  8. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    I mean, aside from being wrong and a 10 year old impression of MLS, Pep Guardiola spends a lot of time training his players how to foul and everyone loves him.
     
  9. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Holy shit, that guy's real name is Kurowskybob.
     
  10. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I agree with that first part. Hackers in MLS is a tiny fraction of what it was a decade or two ago. It is a much more enjoyable brand of soccer to watch than it once was. As for Pep, wasn’t he the coach who brought a team over to play the MLS All Stars and got upset that the MLS team didn’t treat the game like a light scrimmage?
     
  11. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Well, Guardiola is the absolute worst so
     
  12. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    He was upset at a yellow card foul. You can imagine the challenge that draws a yellow card in an All-Star game. I know everyone loves Rose destroying Fosse, but it is essentially a marketing ploy and not a real game.
     
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  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    The players from the world cup were just rejoining Bayern and didnt enter the game until the 79th minute. There was still enough time for late tackle caused Sweinsteiger to leave the game with an injury. Bayern treated the game as a marketing friendly while the MLS guys treated like a world cup final.
     
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  14. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I remember Tim Cahill took a reckless hit to the head that game. Bayern were up to a tad bit more than marketing. And usually the entire starting lineup isn’t pulled at halftime of the World Cup final.
     
  15. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought they had the first and last names reversed but that does seem to be his first name.
     
  16. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Any time Pep is unhappy I treat that as a positive
     
  17. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    You bring your high priced talent to a game with a bunch of hungry guys playing in a lower league, hoping to show they can compete and you have to expect a few challenges flying around out there. If you're not up for it, don't schedule the game. And certainly don't expect all those "lesser" players to be polite and let your guys dance around them the whole time. You want someone to let you walk through them, schedule that behind closed doors and make sure everybody understands the expectations.
     
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  18. shnaggletooth

    shnaggletooth Member+

    Jun 23, 2002
    As usual, we’ve got a glut of talented midfielders, not enough spots to accommodate all of them. But for once the same might be true with the forwards, assuming Vassilev doesn’t play for Bulgaria.
     
  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I'd be interested in seeing your list of forward depth as I see that as a huge area of concern.....
     
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  20. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Yeah, Sargent seems pretty stagnant and he's the top hope for a striker. I don't think it is unreasonable to say he hasn't conclusively overtaken Zardes and that's not just down to Berhalter, results back that up. I'm starting to get more curious to see where Weah plays when he gets back on the field. If he lines up as a striker for his club and knocks in a few goals, it won't be unreasonable to consider him leading the line. Honestly don't know enough about Indiana to know where he sits. I'm really glad to see him get minutes, but he got them because they needed a body and he hasn't had anything to show for his time on the field yet, so I still think the jury's out on what it means that he's getting time. If he's still getting time when they have closer to a full squad, that will be interesting to see. He's not even a striker at youth level from what I understand, so his playing up top may be more of a stopgap solution than anything to plan around. Maybe Wood or Boyd are worth running out, but that's getting pretty desperate.

    If I have to win a game today, I'm still starting Jozy. And while I'm not as down on him as many. I don't think it is a good sign to be still relying on a 30 year old striker who was always more adequate than outstanding because no one has beat him out yet.
     
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  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Striker is clearly a problem but luckily I have a simple solution: let us declare war on Norway over access to the soon-to-be-very-valuable-due-to-melting Arctic sea lanes. Because we are a peaceful nation, before we take action we offer the following: Norway can declare victory by getting incremental ownership of such sea lanes in exchange for admitting that Haaland is actually an American.

    Simple.
     
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  22. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Results?
    One plays in MLS the other in a crappy first division Bundesliga. If you just look at numbers then your conclusion will be flawed.
     
  23. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Numbers matter. Quality of league matters. Quality of play with the NT matters.

    My 2 cents is I start Zardes or Jozy over Sargent if we need to win a game next week.

    We don't all have to agree. But I don't think it is obvious that current Sargent is an improvement over current Zardes or current Jozy.
     
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  24. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    On the national team, they have the same platform and play with the same team and against the same teams. And in this similar environment, Sargent has not shown himself to be clearly more productive than Zardes. I'd still give him a slight edge personally but he hasn't walked in and shown himself to be the obvious sort of upgrade that one would hope a guy would be over someone of Zardes's limited capabilities. They each had 3 goals in 2019. Sure, you can dig into that and find minutia showing Sargent's goals were more difficult or something but matching the competition who also brings a lot of work rate and physicality to the game isn't clearly winning over the spot in my mind.
     
  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    You are entitled to your subjective opinion. The sample size is small, but Sargent has been better in a USMNT than Zardes; arguably better than Jozy lately. But whatever, sample size, your 2 cents.

    Even if you call it marginal or equal, I'd go with the younger kid over the players on the downside of their careers.

    The bigger problem is the idea there are only three options.

    In a must win game tomorrow, it would depend on how we are going to play. If we are going to play The System with Pulisic and Morris/Weah on the wings, then I would take Sargent over Zardes. If we are going to play like we did in Orlando against Canada, then Zardes is a good choice.
     
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