Article on American soccer versus the 'Old World'

since my commments in the USA boards seem to have kicked this argument off (and possibly that article) let me explain those comments.

There are two parts to me as a soccer fan.

One part is an analytic - the guy who looks at the evidence on the field and draws a conclusion, the other a hearts & guts type of fan.

My "We will top the Group of Death and beat Italy and the Czech Republic" thread was PURELY from the Heart & Gut feeling fan. IThis is the 4th time I've said that. That prediction was not based upon any logic or analysis. I didn't put it here or in US N&A for that specific reason.

The analytic in me tells me that we'll have trouble getting out of the group. Italy has more talent and than USA at just about every single position, while the Czechs have proven themselves at the highest levels of International soccer. We'll be underdogs to BOTH sides and logically speaking, we'd do well to draw both sides.

that's the analytic speaking there.

 

as one of the very few people who did such, please see my explanation above. seriously, I'm not so stupid as to think that USA will merely walk through this group

 

There is no pretension, look through the posts the day of the draw. That fans got sick of being miserable and decided to try and find positives instead is fully understandable. The day of the draw our forums were littered with doomsayers (myself being one), and people crushed at our horrendous luck of being drawn after Serbia's selection, into the worst of six possibilities available. All of us, every last one of us knew that after serbia was grouped in C, the absolute worst case scenario was E, indeed as I watched the draw on tape while doing dishes, a feeling of forboding overwhelmed me, and as Italy's turn came up to draw a Euro squad, I was chanting, "please no czech, please no czech, please no czech," like a few others, for whatever reason I had the sinking suspicion in the weeks and months preceeding the draw that we'd get Italy. Maybe it was meeting Italy last June in the WYC's, or at the U-17's, but whatever it was, many of us had the sense it was coming, and I was praying the Czech's would be dropped into Mexico's group or with Brazil (a team we were the least likely to be grouped with after serbia's selection). Alas it wasn't to be.

To be sure there are homers, and plenty of guys that decided to focus on positives and what could possibly go our way but the day of the draw and by and large the philosophy seem to be, we couldn't have gotten a worst run of luck, and we'll need some luck and to be fully healthy to advance. Most believe we are capable of it, but predicting it, especially to suggest as that writer did that American fans are saying we're advancing, period, is b.s. As for World Rivalries, it's cr@p and I spend no time there, why would I want to spend my time digging through endless references to Colombia winning it all in '10, and being better than 30 of the teams this time from ILoveColombia and posters of that ilk? No thanks. Even if we disagree, at least I know you'll be close to fair, and at least in your own mind, posting strictly based on reason and an honest accounting of what you actually know. I stay far away from rivalries, it's a waste of time.

 

Agreed, that seems to be the rational sentiment for the most part, especially now that a full week has past and many, many ppl are much more informed about each side, to the point where they are confronted w/ just how archaic their stereotypes are/were. Dare I say that even you, Sempre, have evolved over the last week.

Mainly newbies, w/ less than 50 posts, so that explains a lot, but I think it's really indicative of the pervasiveness of the Old Guard "dominance" that the "traditional powers" and UEFA nations will waltz through this thing. There have been quite a few yellow cards and red cards doled out to many of these posters.

It shouldn't be that difficult to find examples. Go to the Mexico boards, national team, and find a thread (now closed) in which they blast the US squad as being inept and vastly inferior to Mexico. (And that's w/ only 2 victories against 7 losses over the last 6 years. Too, too funny.)

But ppl like Bergaminster come to mind in this forum. The rest have stopped posting...

 

You know, when I read that, it put a GIANT smile on my face.

For one thing, in other threads, I am one of the controversial folks who considered Landon's time in Germany to be a "Flop". But I LOVE how the Euro Media is still talking about this. For one thing, yeah, he looked like crap against Liverpool, but his play, and ESPECIALLY his play for the National Team, is NOTHING like the lost kid Donovan was at Anfield. Nope. In fact, in the National Team kit, Donovan looks every bit as good as Totti. And if you can't agree, you simply haven't been watching the US team perform.
So--I totally agree--This is the work of an "Amateur Journalist with a dubious knowledge of American soccer". Fortunately for the USA, it seems this kind of behavior is par for the course in Europe, so let's prove them wrong, folks. Give Arena more headlines to tape up around the practice pitch.

 

Hard to argue with this, or any other of the point made in this post. Of course those errors which you correctly refer to are reciprocated to the same degree when Euros compare their players, leagues, and national teams to others (like the US and Mexico) outside of their quaint continent.

The problem as I see it is that there are some of Americans who demand respect for their soccer which their soccer does not yet deserve. This causes them to overstate its comparative quality, it's hard for me to tell if they really mean it or do it because it's fun (that's why I do it).

And there are some Euros who dread nothing more than the rise of US soccer to a position of equality (sorry, it's inevitable and equality will be the best you can hope for) and therefore minimize any progress they see. They want nothing more than the US to fail. In the US, we call this whistling past the grave yard, i.e. it may make you feel better (less scared) but it has no effect on the reality. We all end up there eventually.

 

I think Group E was a better draw for the US than C would have been, but I agree with you that the US is stronger than Serbia and is the final straw on the most competitive group.

I can't wait for this summer.

 

Definitely. But once serbia was drawn in, we didn't ahve to worry about C and E was the worst case scenario, which we got. I'll agree though, when we played Argentina nearly three years ago, we looked totally out of our depths, granted it was A/B for Argentina B, but we still looked totally lost. Against the Dutch we outplayed them in '02, and almost entirely shut down their attack in '04, and despite that we came away with 0-2, and 0-1 losses, so I'll gladly pass on that group.

 

Absolutely, after group C went out of play for us, I breathed a sigh of relief, but Group E was a close second in degree of difficulty. And I agree, we don't have the key to effectively playing Argentina yet, or Brazil for that matter. The European teams seem more within reach.

I'm getting to be quite fond of our group & am really looking forward to watching the matches. They have the chance to be among some of the finest & most competitive in the first round.

 

I agree. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean that the WC06 can't set the precedent.

 

Thanks for the link. I'm definitely watching the whole game. I already know that unless people get hurt, or they go through a slump, Ghana is going to be a very tough team to beat. I've seen their U-23 sides play. If they bring that same style to their senior side, that whole group will be like "oh %#$@".

 

www.bigsoccer.com

Seriously, look at the actual post I initially responded to, and the language there, and then the language here.

 

But didn't he join Leverkusen at 17? There are lots of players younger than 18 playing in the Bundesliga. Take for example Nuri Sahin, he turned 17 in September and he's already done 10 games for Dortmund. He's now the youngest player ever to have scored in the Bundesliga. Before him, that title belonged to another Dortmund player, Lars Ricken (aged 17 years, 8 months and 1 day).

 

What fun vitriol in this thread! It's been a fun read. As for the prospects for the USMNT, I am trying to keep a positive thought. We play well as a unit and have a point to prove. Plus many of our players are having good seasons. Nobody ever imagined Brian McBride or Claudio Reyna doing as well in the premiership as they have this year. One thing that our players do have going for them is that the pressure they face is different from that of their opponents. The Italians and Czechs face negative pressure (Win or else!), while for many of our players, this is their big shot. Landon knows what people say about him, and will want to show that he can play with the best. DaMarcus Beasly, Eddie Johnson and Oguchi Onyewu will all be out to impress big European clubs, and will play aggressively against a group of Serie A stars. On paper, the U.S. should finish third, but that's why they play the games. At least, this is what I tell myself.