Arsenal vs Villa (EPL) 8 Nov 2020

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by NorthBank, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. Silva 5

    Silva 5 Member+

    Mar 10, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could Willian be transformed into a no.10?
     
  2. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    No, and he never had that in his locker.
     
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  3. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    When Arteta isn’t using a 10, why would you want to convert Willian to a 10, unless you see that as a way to move Willian to the bench.
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
  5. Silva 5

    Silva 5 Member+

    Mar 10, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My thinking (or my hope) is the latest result forces Arteta to rethink his approach vs the others and ditch the 5 man back line. If he does that then he'll be looking at another cm.
     
  6. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC


    My eyes! They burn!
     
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  7. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What a beautiful back 8 that didn't mark a single attacker.
     
  8. super gooner

    super gooner Member

    Arsenal
    England
    Sep 20, 2020
    Just watched the highlights. You can never get a true picture of a match, but we did have chances that we just didn't take. We have to be more clinical in front of goal. Tierney is a great crosses of the ball, we need to utilise this. He placed it on the head of Laca who headed it over... Ball watching in defence most of the time, come Arteta sort this out before it's too late for any good league position.
     
  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think we still have too many mediocre players. We've improved in the back 4 I think, even if there are still questions over the defence.

    But I worry we've churned so many players, only to end up with worse offensive outputs than before.

    Willian sums it up. Why did we take the hit on Mhki only to bring in a player who seems to be worse? Or just keep Iwobi?

    Or get rid of all of them and splurge on Ramsey?

    I mean it made sense to lose Ramsey, but not in order to bring in field dross.
     
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  10. super gooner

    super gooner Member

    Arsenal
    England
    Sep 20, 2020
    Willian used to be a good player, not doubt, and he has had his moments especially the first match or so, but he's 32. We should be building for the future not buying the players that other teams don't want, and he is on a big wage so we won't get rid of him before his contract ends. The defence has improved with a bit of coaching, the players' abilities are still suspect though. Would Holding get a look in in the any of the 'top 6'?
     
  11. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The simple answer is a 4411

    easy narrow lines, allows us to play with width and utilise 2 strikers without worrying about a playmaker so much

    ..........auba
    ................./..laca
    Saka...xhaka.....partey...Willian
    Tierney..gab...luiz.......amn
    .............///Leno

    play deep, counter attack and play high vs shit sides. Less space between players to hoof it and the midfield combo can be changed. Ceballos or willock depending on how we want to set up

    martinelli can also step in as a lw or ss and Pepe can play rw (mahrez) or ss roving wide
    Worth a try, partey knows his role in a 442 from athletico

    seems a simple solution and allows easier lines of defence rather than that awful 8 man defensive line @mebeSajid posted
     
  12. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I hope that we're officially done trying to fit Laca and Auba on the pitch together at the same time. Willian is a no for me as well. Play Pepe and Ceballos. Make up for having fewer workers in the middle with extra bodies (Dani). Arteta is placing a huge emphasis on defensive positioning and energy for our wingers. This makes no sense, given our massive, MASSIVE attacking difficulties. Partey and AMN can cover the space if Pepe is not keeping up. If it's a major problem, then play Reiss there. Just no more hard working defensive wingers please. We have hundreds of millions of pounds invested in an attacking line that is currently producing the worst results in the entire league. Just play attacking players, ffs.
     
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  13. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’ve definitely got serious concerns about Arteta at this point, but I do have some sympathy still with the idea that our playing staff have been getting worse for years despite the money we’re spending.

    Replacing none of Cazorla, Ramsey, Wilshere, Iwobi and sadly Özil, despite the flaws in some of those players, and replacing Mkhitaryan with a so far objectively worse and comically too old for his contract Willian...we just don’t have certain types that can be trusted in the squad at all.

    Having said that, Arteta apparently wanted Willian, has blackballed Özil, and thought Partey was worth far more than he is. And he’s trying to force...something...tactically that just isn’t there.

    I’m still willing to give him some leeway, but he’s got to start adjusting to his personnel and the opposition. If Willian starts the Leeds match, I swear to god...
     
  14. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    FA Cup win means Arteta gets somewhere between a B and a B- for his first ~10 months in charge.

    Responding to Tonerl, and others:

    I have more of an issue with the Willian signing than Willian playing. I mean, Willian is terrible, but it seems like Arteta wants someone to pass quickly and move, and the only other player we have that can do that is Saka.

    And I get why Arteta doesn't rate Pepe. But why on earth would you sign Willian in the first place, and why pay so much for Partey? The club had to have secondary targets.

    I've got concerns with Arteta too, but I don't know how you cobble together a functional attack with this lineup. At least Emery had Iwobi, Ramsey, and Mkhi to help stick together a functional attack. Arteta has no one.

    And while Arteta has chosen to stick his neck out over the Ozil situation, if Ozil's not in the Premier League or Europa League squads that decision was probably made by the Kroenkes.

    It's not a good start to his managerial career, but he's had some pretty extenuating circumstances: he started his career midseason and hasn't had any kind of pre-season to speak of, and is stuck playing two games a week.

    Honestly, the bigger issue I have is the decisions we're making in the transfer market, which don't make any sense. The Mari, Cedric, and Willian deals are awful, the Saliba situation has been handled really badly, and Partey was a gross overpay. The Auba and Willian deals are already starting to look really bad. All of this suggests no coherent plan.
     
  15. super gooner

    super gooner Member

    Arsenal
    England
    Sep 20, 2020
    #90 super gooner, Nov 11, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
    Any manager needs a bit of time. It's been a difficult year for him with Covid, but, he has to become accountable for our performances on the pitch, the defence was woeful at times against Villa. I too don't understand some of the signings, I didn't want Willian, Partey, cost to much. I also questioned signing Aubu on such a conract at his age, (I know I'll need my tin hat on for that) he's done nothing since. I know he's played out of position and the team doesn't help him, but when you look at top strikers, they make something out of nothing. I remember watching Michael Own in an England match when he was in his pomp, nothing was happening up front, so he got the ball in our defence and took it up and scored. Granted it wasn't against top notch opposition, but he bust a gut, I'm not seeing this from Aubu at the moment.

    Only two of those players on the pitch against Villa played mid-week.
     
  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yes - it appears to be the same issue as we discussed last season. For all their individual failings, as a group those players were better than what we have now, especially if you include Ozil.

    So the base of the team with Partey looks better - especially in Lulz is fit. But the attacking unit looks trash
     
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  17. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    What is Lacazette providing right now that Nketiah can't provide? What is Willian doing that Reiss Nelson can't? We've talked about how Willock brings things to the side that no one else can. Smith Rowe is the most Ozil-like player in the squad, why not give him some minutes to see if he brings anything new?

    What's the worst that happens if you play the kids, you lose 3-0 at home to Aston Villa? At least they have the potential to improve and are not on the downslope of their prime like Willian, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Elneny, etc. I don't anticipate any new signings until the summer, the only options seems to be roll out the kids or keep playing the veterans in the hope they find something they appear to have lost.
     
  18. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'd forgotten about Reiss Nelson. Willian signing looks even less defensible now.
     
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  19. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    This... was a bad match of football to watch as an Arsenal supporter. I have this problem with my Saturday and Sunday league teams, if the opposition doesn't think you can score goals, you will get ruthlessly countered into oblivion. The biggest thing Arteta can do now is focusing on the attack, not defensive structure. I think Bellerin-Holding-Gab-Tierney is sound enough to let them work out the rest.

    Lacazette looks washed, his touch is bad, the number of touches he takes is bad, he seems to have lost some acceleration. He is just very laboured, maybe Arteta is asking too much of him defensively? I think it might be worth chucking ANM in the front three actually and go back to a 4-3-3.

    That being said, I am Team Arteta when it comes to having a settled and consistently good back 7. Liverpool gave up some wild results under Klopp until they sorted out the back, despite having a good attack at the time.
     
  20. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    Klopp used his money well. He also got the best out of average players like Origi, Shaqiri, Lallana. At least he gave them chances.

    Elliott, Jones also being used a lot.
     
  21. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    And Martinelli and playing Saka in what is probably his best position. For all Arsene’s faults in the transfer market, I doubt he would have ever signed a 32 year old Willian, he would have seen it as blocking the progress of the young players.

    Which brings up another issue, Arteta seems reluctant, more reluctant than even Emery, to trust young players. Saka had already proven his bonafides under Emery. Nketiah is the only other young player Arteta really seems to trust during league games. He has praised Nelson and Willock but nether has featured in a league game this season and Saliba wasn’t Even included on the Europa League roster.
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Nelson and Willock are not good enough
     
  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I joke about Shaq but he is a bit more than an average player when you consider is Bayern experience

    We don't have a wide player like him
     
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  24. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Agreed on Willock, but I'd rather be playing Nelson than Willian, if Pepe is a no-go.

    Unfortunately, we are still in win-now mode when it comes to transfers. Shoveling more and more money into the pit of CL qualification, adding more aging albatrosses around our neck each year. You have to stop the cycle and stop paying old players and selling players when they actually have value, but alas, the Auba contract is going to be the Ozil contract in six month to a year's time. Laca will have no value in any subsequent transfer windows. In three years Partey will be a good player, overpaid for what he is, with no re-sale value, doing a job in a squad of 18 year-olds and 35 year-old Chelsea transfers, that is destined for 9th place. Same as it ever was.

    The philosophy and culture is accepted and set from the top down--it's the Kroenkes that are the problem. Always has been. You look at another one of their teams, the Rams, and they're in the midst of wasting a promising window in much the same way that Arsenal has for a decade--selling draft picks for big buys on above-average players that don't fit the team build.
     
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  25. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This.

    He seems quite stubborn in his approach. It’s nice to have a philosophy, but you also need to adapt and change, and sometimes mid-game!

    And this seems to be a pretty broad consensus/criticism that a lot of pundits I hear saying.
     

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