Arsenal v. Sheffield United, Saturday January 18 2020, 1500 GMT

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by mebeSajid, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    I was down for giving arteta a chance, and I’m willing to give him time but I think he does deserve criticism when warranted8

    I commend what he’s done to help the CBs. They seem much better and that has helped a lot.

    He HAS to figure out a better way to get the ball out of our half though. I’m all for playing out from the back, but we are conceding to play in our half against pressing teams (80 percent of prem now) and betting on the one move that pays off. This was a huge criticism against late Emery and yet I hear none against arteta so far. It’s one of our biggest issues. Opponents have so much less ground to get the ball to our goal vs us to theirs.

    I guess he’s just figuring things out, but I also think his subs have been pretty poor so far.
     
  2. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    May 10, 2006
    Beavercreek, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We’re not struggling with that to anywhere near the degree we were under Emery, and it wasn’t just ‘late’ Emery.

    We’re not a great or even good team under Arteta yet, but we are far better than under any period of Emery’s reign. Already. There’s a British shitload of damage to repair, and just getting to functional in this timeframe is, frankly, astonishing.
     
  3. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree with this. I see signs that we're already a better attacking team than under Emery. The xG and shots per match are already showing we're a bit better. It's not going to be a straight upward progression, but it seems to be improving.
     
  4. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't forget the Liverpool game at the beginning of this season when we couldn't advance the ball beyond the 18 yard box, much less into the attacking third. The personnel we have are not top quality. None of the players we have are coveted by any of the top teams in Europe.
     
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  5. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eh. I dunno. I think more than a couple of teams would take Aubameyang and/or Pepe.
     
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  6. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless Pepe starts scoring and assisting like mad I don't see the market for either of them. It's a fine line, but imo it' the difference between a team accepting them if we offered and chasing after them.

    Compare to 10 years ago when we were beating away approaches for half the players on the team every summer. The talent level is not the same as it used to be.
     
  7. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's only one source, but our xG is slightly down with Arteta thus far:



    It's probably not significant, but it's definitely not better either.
     
  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    There seems to be decent evidence of huge defensive improvement

    Late emery we were being outshot by relegation level sides

     
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  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Interesting that Emery had net negative xG

    That is the sign of a below average side
     
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  10. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Emery was bad, but this squad is fairly shut tbh and inexperienced
     
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  11. Walia Ibex

    Walia Ibex Member

    Arsenal
    Ethiopia
    Oct 2, 2019
    Touching to see.

    From Sanchez-Ozil to Saka-Martinelli
     

    Attached Files:

  12. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    I disagree.

    If you have the statzone app, go look at our passing territory in conjunction with the player influence. While I don’t have the aggregate data, we are consistently passing the ball in less than 50% of the pitch under arteta and we have very little influence in the opposition half. What was bad under Emery is still bad.

    So this raises the chicken/egg question. Is it the players? Different system, different coach same issue. We have no ability to advance the ball through the middle of the pitch. Whereas before we thought this was just the Emery way, I’m maybe thinking this is purely a personnel issue and Emery was just leaning into the flanks.

    Arteta himself recognized this as an issue and said it was priority to change it. Yet, no change in this particular aspect that I can see.
     
  13. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think the problem is two fold: 1) Lucas Torreira is bad at this, so if Xhaka is dropping into a back three (and he is), then there's no ball progression into Ozil, and 2) Ozil can't play in a midfield three.
     
  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It's only 5 games in my dudes

    Kloppo took well over a year to fix liverpools defence.

    Arteta is focussed on stopping us losing games by conceding superior xG. He stopped the bleeding.

    Attacking patterns take much longer
     
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  15. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Imo, we should look at a good cm and go 433 which solves spacing issues

    we need a winger too lw and a passing ceb with pace and power

    ozil looked ok in small parts but 4231 is dead imo
     
  16. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    I’m not impatient, I’m just a little annoyed at the notion that everyone is excited that there is “a plan” and this is one critical element that I haven’t seen any plan put in place as of yet.

    As @mebeSajid pointed out, the dropping of xhaka deep only seems to exacerbate the problem. Also, I think it is key to our inability to play strongly with a lead. When the other teams press harder, we play even deeper in our own half. I get that we don’t have a Santi to play through the press, but I think he should have a tactical plan to get the ball up the pitch and away from our goal.
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well as I pointed out, Arteta's main work is to stop us conceding so many shots.

    And it is working, without any significant difference in the attack
     
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  18. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I feel like fixing Guendouzi’s positioning and playing Xhaka and Guendouzi would fix some of these problems.
     
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  19. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We need midfielders so bad. Even though they've been playing better under Arteta none of the guys we have are complete players.
     
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  20. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    That’s just it though. I’m not convinced this isn’t a false dawn as well. While the number of shots has dropped, when you look at the common opponents it’s almost the same XG conceded as Emery with the one goal advantage mostly down the pen conceded to palace by chambers hanging his leg out unnecessarily.

    So in terms of XG conceded, I’d say there is not much to write home about so far. Palace and bournemouth have the worst attacks in the league this season so aren’t real tests. Chelsea did just as well against arteta as Emery last season. All in all I’d say the jury is still out. We definitely are working harder which is good, but I worry that it’s unsustainable with this squad.
     
  21. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If this squad has been mediocre under 3 managers then it seems the problem is not with the manager, right?
     
  22. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    To a degree. I think it is a squad that a good manager can work with given the time. We are definitely in the top six on quality, but some of that quality is tied up in tactical conundrums (ozil, torriera, xhaka, Laca/Auba, kola) and injuries (bellarin, holding, tierney). I think these factors make us really a 7-8 place team and that’s likely where we finish.

    When was Liverpool’s last injury crisis? Robertson, mane, VVD, etc are available for every match. They have a ton of options in midfield as well to rotate as needed. We are miles behind this.
     
  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I don't think you can say that.

    First Late Phase Wenger and Emery were both clearly mediocre. Freddie and Arteta - too few games to judge

    But also the squad of late phase Wenger is very different to the squad we have now.

    And we did not manage the age curve well. We have way too many young players and old players and few at peak ages
     
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  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Karo Viertel
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I worry that the comparison to Emery is not apples/apples

    Emery inherited a top 6 side, and presided over a decline so steep that by the end, Arsenal were conceding shot dominance to bottom 3 teams.

    Arteta inherited a lower table side, on a slide to the depths of the table.

    So to compare him with average Emery era data is not fair.

    He should be judged against the crisis data he inherited.
     
  25. maskito

    maskito Member

    Jan 14, 2006
    Minneapolis
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Add to this that he came in at arguably the worst, most congested time in the middle of the season. He has had no preseason to shape the team, and has had fewer options to train the team due the schedule.
     
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