"In Premiership games we just play like we know we can play. I feel that sometimes in Europe we play with the handbrake on. We don't know what we can achieve - we need to just go out there and play our game and see where it gets us." Quoted from Dennis Bergkamp off the AFC webby. To me that does really sum up what we are like in europe, we always seem to worried about not losing rather than going out there and winning like we do in the EPL week in and week out. Hopefully we will now see us at our best as we really have nothing to lose by going all out for it. What do you guys think?? And who do you think we should see up front with Henry?!? My view is to keep the same team that started at Leeds, maybe just take DB out and let JA start up front with Henry so we have some real bite and pace at the front. Kiev are clearly just going to try do an Inter on us and sit back and nullify TH, so its going to be down to the others to start chipping in with some goals!!
I'd go with the usual back five, Gilberto/Edu in the middle, Pires/Ljungberg on the outsides and Dennis up front with Henry. I'd like to see Dennis out there for this match. If Kiev are going to play defensively, we'll need some well placed passes. It's do or die. I'd go with experience (although I wouldn't hesitate to replace Dennis at the half with JA or Kanu if he's not involved). GJ40
Yeah, I think it's time to put DB10 back in for a long spell, as he's a more creative force than Wiltord. I know his skills aren't what they used to be, but he's still the kind of player that opponents have to respect. That's not a knock on Aliadiere, mind you. I think he's a tremendous talent as well. But I don't think this is the right game to start him. I think bringing him in off the bench is definitely an option though.
Is it not a little ironic to hear Bergkamp talking about Arsenal's form in European matches? Are these impressions that he has formed while watching the matches on TV? I know that this horse has been beaten to death, but if Bergkamp refuses to play in half the CL matches, I would just as soon see him sit out the other half. That's much easier for me to say based on his current form as well (though he appeared a little chippier Saturday).
I totally agree with you about DB. IMHO I think that JA should partner TH up front. Wiltord hasn't done anything to deserve the spot, and is there anyone else? The only other thing that might work, and I think it's what AW will do, is start DB and then sub him out at the half.
I have to say that I disagree with Dennis. If you watched the Inter game, you know that we tried to come out and play as we would a premiership game. In the first half, we played a very open, rapid passing style, and we got spanked. I liken it to the Arsenal-Charlton game from a couple of years ago where we dominated the game and lost 2-4. In the CL, you simply cannot play the same you do in England because the teams are much better. Every mistake can cost you dearly. In the premiership, the average quality of the opposition is much lower, and we can afford to go at them with our pacy attack.
What's next from Dennis? A treatise comparing the subtle differences between flying first class and business class?
I get the feeling people are a wee bit frustrated by our Non-Flying Dutchman giving his tuppence on our European failings. But he is right in assertions that we seem afraid of failure In Europe. In sports fear of failure is the same as fear of success. If you are afraid to lose you are afraid to win. I think we listen too much to the criticism of our European record(In Champions League play)and the myth that we will never be a top club until we win the European Cup no matter how well we play in the Prmeiership and other competitions. I think this puts a large amount of pressure on us in Europe other clubs do not have to contend with. And a lot of it is self-created from within. I think if we actually had the same belief in Europe we have domestically we could win the European Cup with THIS team as it is, even without a centre forward to complement Henry and/or a real scoring threat from mid-field. It just doesn't seem to be there anymore, meaning we need new players and new types of players to allow us to change our style for Europe and force teams to adjust their approach to playing us, especially at Highbury. I believe if we do that with the players already here, once we win the European Cup we will win it again a few times. Belief is the key. The team doesn't believe we can do it this way I fear(hope I am wrong)...
This one is on the money. We're getting spanked in Europe game after game exactly because we keep trying to play the way we do in the EPL. Those of you who think we should start our most important match of the season so far with an unproven kid, JA, have to be out of your collective minds!!! We have to be tight at the back and tough through the middle to create space for TH14 at this level. He won't have freedom to run at players because they will try to put 2 defenders in front of him at all times. That means sitting on shoulders and waiting for the through ball. That means playing DB10 or Edu as provider. I would start with DB10. He still commands respect and that could buy Titi an extra yard early on. Ljungberg, Parlour, Gilberto and Pires in the middle (assuming no Paddy?). After 60 mins DB10 and Freddie to make way for Edu and Wiltord. The result will be down to midfield. If he plays I know Parlour will do his job. As for the the rest..... Come on you Gunners!!!
We really need to win this by two clear goals. Teams that finish level on points are placed by looking at the results between the teams rather than by goal difference. If we do qualify it's going to be very close.
If we win this game 1-0 and win the other 2 games we're through. Goal difference is head to head. 1-0 will better Kiev on the away goals rule! That's why we have to keep it tight tomorrow. Come on you Gunners!!!
And this is exactly what needs to happen. I'd like to see a 3 man fron with Kanu, TH14, and God bringing it hard against Kyiv's defense, and hopefully we won't shoot ourselves in the foot... Winning on GD is not the best way to take the group, but it beats not taking it at all...
Here's the trick-we will play like we do in England but when it doesn't work as well THEN the doubt creeps in and takes over, first when we don't take an opponent apart and then when the hit us against the run of play we just lose all belief. I remember in the Inter match down 0-2 and losing faith(on the pitch)when Henry who is a GOOD if not great penalty-taker went up to take the pen I just SENSED over internet radio NO ONE AT HIGHBURY believed he'd convert it and that we'd fight back into it already and I even felt that "Oh no, not again" feeling, and no need to remind this board what did happen. The two-goal deficit had taken WHATEVER confidence we'd carried into the match be cause to erase a two-goal deficit in Champions League play is infinitely more difficult than in the Premiership. Especially when you have a mental block already in your way. We can't play like we do in England because we CAN'T play like we do in England. And we know it because we KNOW it. Read it carefully...it DOES make sense that way...
I don't believe it matters what score we win this by. If we win 14-13 and win our other two matches, I believe we're still through. (If we're level on 10 pts with Inter and Kiev, that means that they both won against Roma and drew their match against each other. Looking at the head-to-head-to-head, Inter would have 7 points (1-1-0 against us, 1-0-1 against Kiev), we would have 6 points (1-1-0 against Inter, 1-1-0 against Kiev), and Kiev would have 4 points (1-1-0 against us, 0-1-1 against Inter). So Inter would win the group and we would be second.)
Roma????? I think the key is keeping things tight tonight. Kiev are a very good counter-attacking team. I watched them in thier away game against Inter and I still have no idea how threy didn't win. Even when we played them in Kiev they looked to soak up the pressure and hit us on the counter. I reckon we should keep things tight for about 60 minutes, attack and apply pressure by all means, but don't over-commit. If after an hour we aren't in the lead it will be time for the four striker set-up and go gung-ho for the win.
On the money. We are unable to play a cagy game against cagy opponents. In fact, we are consistently naive in our lineups and approach. we are not playing mid-table English sides here, but defensively stout continental stawarts. This is particularly true when we are away. There is no shame in a nil-nil road result, nor is there shame in a one-nil snoozer win at Highbury.
If it is on Capital Gold (I don't think anyone knows for sure until the game starts) the website is: http://www.capitalgold.com/ Click on the "Listen Live" button at the top right corner.
Yes, we're through no matter what IF we win all three matches. It will put us at 10 points--good for first or second in any scenario.